Im gonna completely redo my brakes help

[MacLean]

Hi,

I've never been happy with my front brakes since my crash about 1.5 years ago, the lever felt spongy and you had to really pull it to get half decent brake power... (and my bike comes with R1 brakes which are ment to be top dog).

I bled them which improved things slightly, but now I can pull the lever enough that it touches the handlebar and im not happy and want to overhaul the whole front braking system (I don't wanna skimp on brakes, Id rather be 100% certain)

I want to get braided lines, new seals for brake pistons, new pads and im semi tempted to get a replacement master cylinder. Anything else I should think about?

Is it possible that my master cyclinder could be damaged? Is there any way to tell, or would I be best just getting another one for peace of mind?

Also will I need to buy washers or any other nick nacks or will all these little bits come with whatever kits I end up buying in the end?

My bike has a three line setup at the moment but I see some kits are two line 'race setup', does this make any difference or would I be best looking for a 3 line setup which is my bikes default setup?

[Stu]

thats going to cost you a fair amount to do all that!!

what brake pads have you got in there ?

cheap ones can make the brakes feel spongy and are crap!!

get some HH sintered ones in and some braided lines!

if the seals arent leaking then they are ok

no harm in pulling them out and giving the calipers a good clean up though

[MacLean]

thats going to cost you a fair amount to do all that!!

what brake pads have you got in there ?

cheap ones can make the brakes feel spongy and are crap!!

get some HH sintered ones in and some braided lines!

if the seals arent leaking then they are ok

no harm in pulling them out and giving the calipers a good clean up though

 

Okay you gota good point I guess, start with new lines and pads and see how it goes from there, no point on spending loads if its not needed.

Too be honest mate I don't know what pads are in it, they came in the bike and seemed to do a decent job until after the crash.

[Stu]

have you had your discs checked to see if they are warped ?

it could be a warped disc pushing the pistons back in to the calipers and needing more lever movement to push them back out!

a simple check is to go for a ride and apply the brake at around 40mph and feel for the leaver pulsing

[MacLean]

I can't say I remember feeling any pulsing but will give it a shot later when home from work.

One of the things I had to replace was the fron wheel, and the guys in the shop fitting a new tire said the discs where okay when I asked, but I guess thats not definite.

Will give that a shot, but I THINK they're okay.

[skatefreak]

Yeah,

I would have thought new lines and pads should do the job,

Feel free to get the caliper appart and clean it out, cant do any harm and will only help the feel for them

Check out a manual/online tutorialy thingy!

Work from there on.

Jump in and enjoy!

-Jvr

[MacLean]

Hey,

I've dismantaled the whole braking setup and got all my new bits ready to go on....

Only prob is, I want to take all the pistons out and give em a clean, aswell as replace the seals which I have a new set of.

I tried to get the pistons out by keeping the lines attached to the caliper reomoving the pads and calipers and pumping them out with the brake lever...

Unfortunitly I was only able to get 1 out of 8 pistons out the caliper (maybe this explains my poor brake performance?), then all the brake fluid pissed out behind it and I was fooked.

My mum theifed the air compressor so is there any other way I can get the pistons out? (I have now disconnected the lines) Or do I pretty much need compressed air now?

One other thing, because one piston is out, wont all the air pressure escape out here if I do use compressed air?

[Guest]

mole grips just on the edge of the piston, or specialist piston tool which expands inside to give purchase.

I use mole grips and rotate back and forth, they come out after a little work, and rub the edge down ith wet/dry to remove any possible scoring,

also using brake fluid, wet the edge when replacing, makes them slide past the rubbers easier.

[Guest]

also using brake fluid, wet the edge when replacing, makes them slide past the rubbers easier.

 

That works, but red brake piston grease is better, most dealers stock little sachets of it and it only costs penny's

it will also help stop the pistons seizing in the future

[MacLean]

Thanks for you're help guys.

However think I've made a slight mistake thats gonna make it slightly more difficult...

The haynes manual said if you wanna get the pistons out and dont have com air then keep the lines attached and pump the lever to force em out. It also was going on about using a piece of wood to hold pistons in... didnt really get it.... Long story short, the pistons are pushed in so that their edges are flush with the caliper body... Meaning theres nothing to grab for mole grips.

Guess Im down to either compressed air, or special tool.

Might just take the pair to the shop and see if they'll get the pistons out for me.

(its all good, lessons learned for the future anyway)

[Guest]

Since reading this i've noticed my front brakes become quite spongy too!

Service in the next 600 miles though, so it'll get sorted then!

[MacLean]

Since reading this i've noticed my front brakes become quite spongy too!

Service in the next 600 miles though, so it'll get sorted then!

 

Yeh if your brakes are spongy dont take anyone pillion...

Thats when I decided it had to be done. For just casual normal braking with pillion I was having to squeeze way too hard, a few white knuckle heart stopping moments for what should have been casual braking... Not safe

[Guest]

Since reading this i've noticed my front brakes become quite spongy too!

Service in the next 600 miles though, so it'll get sorted then!

 

Yeh if your brakes are spongy dont take anyone pillion...

Thats when I decided it had to be done. For just casual normal braking with pillion I was having to squeeze way too hard, a few white knuckle heart stopping moments for what should have been casual braking... Not safe

 

Yeah good point

i took a pillion the other day, i think i'll wait until its been sorted now, as its only just good enough for me (and at speed i have to compensate a bit more too just in case)

Checked the pads and they seem to have a good bit of life left, but then again, the bike is 10 years old Probs need a good clean up and bleed !

[Guest]

Thanks for you're help guys.

However think I've made a slight mistake thats gonna make it slightly more difficult...

The haynes manual said if you wanna get the pistons out and dont have com air then keep the lines attached and pump the lever to force em out. It also was going on about using a piece of wood to hold pistons in... didnt really get it.... Long story short, the pistons are pushed in so that their edges are flush with the caliper body... Meaning theres nothing to grab for mole grips.

Guess Im down to either compressed air, or special tool.

Might just take the pair to the shop and see if they'll get the pistons out for me.

(its all good, lessons learned for the future anyway)

put the piston you have out back in, and slot in the pads, then apply compressed air or connect to the brake line with fluid, and push the pistons out, remove one pad at a time, which will stop the pistons coming out completely meaning you can apply pressure to all at the same time, all pistons should now sit proud enough to get hold of them and take them out..

[MacLean]

put the piston you have out back in, and slot in the pads, then apply compressed air or connect to the brake line with fluid, and push the pistons out, remove one pad at a time, which will stop the pistons coming out completely meaning you can apply pressure to all at the same time, all pistons should now sit proud enough to get hold of them and take them out..

 

I'm with you, yeh that makes sence. I'll hook up the old lines throw the old fluid down, and do what you said, just to get them out. Flush the crap fluid out again and carry on from there.

THANKS! Will let you know how I get on

[Guest]

If front brake becomes spongy even when bled correctly it'll be you brake lines as the older they get they stretch when you apply the brake and lose pressure to the pads. The cheapest option would be to replace them with normal ones rather than with steel braided ones as you get no flex on the hoses. If you've not ridden much or at all with steel braided hoses be very careful as you'll end up eating tarmac through locking the front wheel up. If your stripping the calipers get new seals for them but I would just replace the hoses you'll notice a big difference.

[MacLean]

Okay manged to get 4 out of 8 pistons out last night

Problem was that after hooking lines up again and pumping the brake, for the left caliper, the two pistons on the left would come way out, but the two on the right have only came out about 3mm and although i tried, couldnt get enough grip to get them out. It was the exact same on the right hand caliper, the two pistons on the right came out loads but the two on the left only came out 3mm.

So now am not sure if i should take em to the shop to get the last 4 out, or try the whole pumping thing again. Ended up spilling loads of brake fluid on the garage floor aswell

[MacLean]

If front brake becomes spongy even when bled correctly it'll be you brake lines as the older they get they stretch when you apply the brake and lose pressure to the pads. The cheapest option would be to replace them with normal ones rather than with steel braided ones as you get no flex on the hoses. If you've not ridden much or at all with steel braided hoses be very careful as you'll end up eating tarmac through locking the front wheel up. If your stripping the calipers get new seals for them but I would just replace the hoses you'll notice a big difference.

 

Ahh thats a valuable little something that I shall keep in mind. Thanks buddy.

In a way im beginning to wish I did just do the hoses, but im half way there now so will keep pressing on.

[Guest]

So now am not sure if i should take em to the shop to get the last 4 out, or try the whole pumping thing again. Ended up spilling loads of brake fluid on the garage floor aswell

if the calipers are off, then take em down the local bike shop, the labour can't be much for removing pistons on calipers already off. it would take me about 30mins,

[MacLean]

Okay got a step further on this but hit a new wall!

So took em to shop they got remaining pistons out for me.

Cleaned it all up put in the new seals, replaced pistons, greased up the pads put them in installed the calipers.

Set the lines up loose first to get the lines routing nicely once happy go to tighten the banjo bolts. Look in the (Venhill) instructions and theres no torque settings so then look at the haynes: 30nm it ses.

So I go and set the wrench to 30nm go to tighten the banjo bolt in the master cyclinder, start cranking it - hang on somethin aint right - have a look and its just completely rounded the banjo bolt.

So I think to myself that that was my fault for not engaging the allen key socket thing properly so go to tighten the front left caliper, this time hammer the wrench tightly into the bolt and begin cranking, the banjo bolt snaps in half before I reach 30nm so this is when I call it quits.

Had a look and in the faq on the website at the very bottom they have torque settings of min 19nm and max 25nm so that explains the problem. (although it would make MUCH more sense to have this on the instructions!)

So gonna order two new bolts but my question is, the one in the master cyclinder is rounded off what would you all recommend is the best way of getting this out without damaging anything but the bolt? Just drill it?

[Guest]

So gonna order two new bolts but my question is, the one in the master cyclinder is rounded off what would you all recommend is the best way of getting this out without damaging anything but the bolt? Just drill it?

mole grips.... put em on as tight as possible, and give a whack (remember to go for loose, not tight...), make sure master cylinder is attached firmly to bars..first

just goes to show Torque wrenches and settings are the only thing to use. do em up tight, then tighten some more, if leaking....

[MacLean]

So gonna order two new bolts but my question is, the one in the master cyclinder is rounded off what would you all recommend is the best way of getting this out without damaging anything but the bolt? Just drill it?

mole grips.... put em on as tight as possible, and give a whack (remember to go for loose, not tight...), make sure master cylinder is attached firmly to bars..first

just goes to show Torque wrenches and settings are the only thing to use. do em up tight, then tighten some more, if leaking....

 

Cheers mate, Will give mole grips a shot but the banjo bolt is a smooth round bolt head so I think the mole grips will end up slipping...Bit confused tho you sed put them on as tight as possible but go for loose not tight?

[Guest]

Cheers mate, Will give mole grips a shot but the banjo bolt is a smooth round bolt head so I think the mole grips will end up slipping...Bit confused tho you sed put them on as tight as possible but go for loose not tight?

 

my Banjo's all all hex haed, so unless you've rounded the head??

you want the mole grips tight on the head, so they don't slip.. the grips should dig into the metal creating enough purchase to remove them..

[MacLean]

Yeh my original bolts were hex head however the venhill ones look like this:

http://i.ebayimg.com/07/!BbVG(fQ!mk~$(KGrHqEOKjEEq4KlsNmoBKvjoRezNQ~~_35.JPG

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/1/6/0/6/2/5/webimg/239261257_o.jpg

[Guest]

ok, got you now... get hold of a TORX bit, they are star shaped so cut into the allen head..