New Bike licencing confirmed?

[Karimura]

Dunno if its already posted, but if it has, just remove this thread haha.

I am 20, so waiting to be 21 to do full access course to get unlimited power, but this new law thing may change that for me and others alike...

Whats your thoughts?

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2012/January/jan1312-details-of-new-licencing-regime-confirmed/

[cyberwolf]

Details of a new motorcycle licence regime to be implemented next year have been confirmed by the Driving Standards Agency.

The new rules will limit all riders under 19 to 125cc machines and under-21s to 47bhp.

Those aged 17-19 will only be able to gain a licence for a machine up to 125cc and 15bhp by taking a test on a bike of similar spec.

At 19 they can qualify for a bike up to 47bhp by doing another test or undertaking additional training. This must be done on a machine over 395cc and between 33bhp and 47bhp.

They then face a further two-year wait – and yet another test or further training - before they can qualify to ride a bike of any power.

Alternatively, people over 24 can take a single Direct Access test to immediately qualify for bikes of any power. This test must be taken on a machine of at least 595cc and 54bhp.

Each step-up in power will involve a further test or training. A DSA release said: ‘The feasibility of the training option is currently being looked into; a final decision is yet to be made.’

The new regime is due to be implemented from January 19 next year.

It means 17-year-olds will face three exams or training sessions over a minimum of four years before they can ride an unlimited bike.

There are grave concerns about the impact it will have on new rider numbers. Paul Dickinson, Chairman of the Motorcycle Trainers’ National Council, said: “It’s going to be a problem just explaining the new process when people phone up. There is a concern it may put people off.”

At the moment there are two routes to a full motorcycle licence without power restrictions. Riders can either do their test on a 125 and spend two years restricted to 33bhp or, if over 21, they can do the Direct Access test on a machine of at least 47bhp and bypass the wait.

taken from mcn

[tryme]

get your das in quick guys lol

[mealexme]

Wait, so.... with things as they are (I am 19) I get my 33bhp restriction off at 21. If the rules change I can get my bike restricted to 47bhp rather than 33bhp and take it off at 21?

It all seems a bit odd to me tbh. Must take the test on a bike between 33bhp and 47bhp?

There are a few things in there that seem odd. Thanks for the info, but I dont't trust MAG any more (who are still asking people to sign petitions for the euro thing) I would like to read the official DSA statement, from the DSA.

edit. this is from mcn. my bad

Edited January 15, 2012 by mealexme

[Roadtorque]

only wish they applied the same rules to cars

[Daytona Paul]

If you are 21 after Jan 19 2013 you will have to wait another 3 years to take DAS. The rules ARE coming in on that date!

By far the best option is to pass this year, on a 125 if necessary, and sooner rather than later - test's will be at a premium and demand will be very high once this news begins to sink in

[iWannaGoFast]

Wait, so.... with things as they are (I am 19) I get my 33bhp restriction off at 21. If the rules change I can get my bike restricted to 47bhp rather than 33bhp and take it off at 21?

It all seems a bit odd to me tbh. Must take the test on a bike between 33bhp and 47bhp?

There are a few things in there that seem odd. Thanks for the info, but I dont't trust MAG any more (who are still asking people to sign petitions for the euro thing) I would like to read the official DSA statement, from the DSA.

 

Rules don't apply if you've already passed your test.

[cyberwolf]

only wish they applied the same rules to cars

 

agreed its stupid u can pass yr test at 17 and jump into a 200mph car if you wanted to

[cruz]

only wish they applied the same rules to cars

 

agreed its stupid u can pass yr test at 17 and jump into a 200mph car if you wanted to

I also agree, a 17yr old in his brand new XR2i killed 2 good friends of mine some years ago.

[mealexme]

Wait, so.... with things as they are (I am 19) I get my 33bhp restriction off at 21. If the rules change I can get my bike restricted to 47bhp rather than 33bhp and take it off at 21?

It all seems a bit odd to me tbh. Must take the test on a bike between 33bhp and 47bhp?

There are a few things in there that seem odd. Thanks for the info, but I dont't trust MAG any more (who are still asking people to sign petitions for the euro thing) I would like to read the official DSA statement, from the DSA.

 

Rules don't apply if you've already passed your test.

 

which means I am stuck on 33bhp whilst people who have just passed get to up it to 47?

[mealexme]

i would disagree. if you won't be 21 by that date, wait and do your test after that date on a 125 because you will be limited to 47bhp rather than if you did it before that date you would be limited to 33bhp. but then again the sooner you do it the sooner the restriction comes off.

or if you are 21 before that date then yea, do the DAS asap

[Remy]

which means I am stuck on 33bhp whilst people who have just passed get to up it to 47?

 

they are still finalising the rules, so details may yet change, but I would think if you wanted to go up to 47bhp you'd have to take extra training or a test, by the sounds of it. Would it be worth it for the sake of a year or so?

[Ingah]

which means I am stuck on 33bhp whilst people who have just passed get to up it to 47?

 

they are still finalising the rules, so details may yet change, but I would think if you wanted to go up to 47bhp you'd have to take extra training or a test, by the sounds of it. Would it be worth it for the sake of a year or so?

 

Unfortunately they aren't 'finalising' it, it's not going to change now.

The real time to stop this was back in 2006 when the law was originally (and quietly) passed. Now though, its the other extreme, there is absolutely no way to stop it.

You have to take an extra test to get an A2 47bhp licence, and it must be 2 years after you've already taken the A1 test. Thing is, taking the A1 test is pointless, it gets you nothing of consequence in the short term (merely motorway and pillion provisions), as you can ride the same bikes on L-plates as you can after passing your (A1) test!

Oh, and don't forget that "A3" test 2 years after that, to get a proper full bike licence.

I see hordes more undertrained L-platers, and less real bikers. For that reason, i'm out.

[Ingah]

i would disagree. if you won't be 21 by that date, wait and do your test after that date on a 125 because you will be limited to 47bhp rather than if you did it before that date you would be limited to 33bhp. but then again the sooner you do it the sooner the restriction comes off.

or if you are 21 before that date then yea, do the DAS asap

 

No, he'll be limited to 15bhp 125cc. AFTER passing his A1 test. Then wait MINIMUM 2 years before the A2 47hp test can be taken...

Take the test now on a 125,

[davefly76]

only wish they applied the same rules to cars

 

[iWannaGoFast]

which means I am stuck on 33bhp whilst people who have just passed get to up it to 47?

 

Don't bother. You'll barely notice any change in 14bHp for a year or so.

[techno]

Both topics merged and moved in here!

finally

[Horseynat30101]

This has realy wound me up! im only glad that i passed mine over 2 yrs ago now :/ feels soory for the likes of my sister (who is 11), she wants to have a bike when she is old enough and i can only guess as to what lunacy she will have to be put through!!

[Karimura]

I'm on to pass my test and wait 2 years I think, best to quickly get it in, as doing 3 tests seems rather expensive, as you probably gotta do some learning lessons too

[mealexme]

Each step-up in power will involve a further test or training. A DSA release said:

blah blah blah.

Two things to take from this. Surely this means that the DSA gave a press release? And I have read this in a different way to everyone else. I think they mean if you turn 17, you can do the first test(A1), then at 19 you can do the second test(lets call it A2), and again at 21 you have to do another test(A3). However if you are, say 22 you only need to do the one test, the A3 test rather than having to do A1, A2 AND A3. So Karimura, depending on your age, I don't think you will have to do three tests. I could be wrong though (And I don't think they will actually call them A1 A2 and A3 either, because it will get confusing if stopped for police to try and work out what restriction you should have)

[davefly76]

Each step-up in power will involve a further test or training. A DSA release said:

blah blah blah.

Two things to take from this. Surely this means that the DSA gave a press release? And I have read this in a different way to everyone else. I think they mean if you turn 17, you can do the first test(A1), then at 19 you can do the second test(lets call it A2), and again at 21 you have to do another test(A3). However if you are, say 22 you only need to do the one test, the A3 test rather than having to do A1, A2 AND A3. So Karimura, depending on your age, I don't think you will have to do three tests. I could be wrong though (And I don't think they will actually call them A1 A2 and A3 either, because it will get confusing if stopped for police to try and work out what restriction you should have)

 

Just to throw another spanner in to the works.. What if you only start out at age 20, do you have to do the 3 licence thing? Or do you just have to do 2? Or do you just wait until you hit 21 and go for the full unrestricted licence??

And another thing. At 18 you can legally buy alcohol, vote, get married, get a mortgage and drive what ever car you want yet you can't ride a motorbike of your choice without it being restricted..!!

[mealexme]

Each step-up in power will involve a further test or training. A DSA release said:

blah blah blah.

Two things to take from this. Surely this means that the DSA gave a press release? And I have read this in a different way to everyone else. I think they mean if you turn 17, you can do the first test(A1), then at 19 you can do the second test(lets call it A2), and again at 21 you have to do another test(A3). However if you are, say 22 you only need to do the one test, the A3 test rather than having to do A1, A2 AND A3. So Karimura, depending on your age, I don't think you will have to do three tests. I could be wrong though (And I don't think they will actually call them A1 A2 and A3 either, because it will get confusing if stopped for police to try and work out what restriction you should have)

 

Just to throw another spanner in to the works.. What if you only start out at age 20, do you have to do the 3 licence thing? Or do you just have to do 2? Or do you just wait until you hit 21 and go for the full unrestricted licence??

And another thing. At 18 you can legally buy alcohol, vote, get married, get a mortgage and drive what ever car you want yet you can't ride a motorbike of your choice without it being restricted..!!

Don't think you will need to do all 3 licences. And it would be 24 now, not 21

Also I found this elsewhere which sets it out clearer

 

2013 and beyond...the 3rd European Licence Directive (3DLD)

Another raft of changes planned that will see an increase in the age for those who want to take the Direct Access Scheme and additional difficulties for younger riders.

Before the DSA "gold plate" it and generally make motorcycling ridiculously expensive the 3rd European Licence Directive (3DLD) has the following changes:

16+ - CBT.

17+ - A1 licence allowing a full licence up to 125cc.

19+ - A2 licence allowing a full licence up to 400cc.

24+ - A (Direct Access) licence allowing a full licence for any motorcycle.

Unlike the current situation A2 does automatically upgrade to a full licence after 2 years. Instead people will have to take either a test or training to upgrade to the new licence after 2 years.

The consultation has been and gone, the results of which will affect the landscape of motorcycle training. As with all these things rather than being transparent and help, the DSA has set its face against the training industry and is set to introduce such a ridiculously complicated and burdensome system that it will a wonder than anyone will want to learn to ride a motorcycle. Read all 93 pages and weep (consultation now closed).

(http://lightningpass.com/changes-motorcycle-learner-law to read the whole article)

So I presume as it is now, A1, A2 and A are all full licences, and I think these are minimum ages, so you could theoretically at 33yo do your A2 licence and for it to be valid until you are 70(? I can't remember what the age is) and not have to do your A1 first. Like at the moment you can do you'r DAS without doing A2 first.

[mealexme]

Been looking into it a bit further. it is part of something called the "3rd Europian directive" and has been planned since at least 2007,

(from ROSPA)

Change the size categories of motorcycles, including a new medium-sized

category

Increase the minimum age for motorcyclists gaining direct access to the most

powerful motorbikes from 21 to 24 years

Introduce a new formal test or a training programme for younger motorcyclists

wishing to progress in stages to the larger and more powerful machines

Require drivers of medium and large buses and lorries to renew their licences

and demonstrate continuing medical fitness every five years

Introduce a formal test or a training for car and light van drivers who wish to tow a

medium-sized trailer

 

And a bit from BMF

What can be done to prevent the legislation?

Nothing. As it is now European law, it must be implemented by the UK government. However,

we are already making progress to lessen the impact of the changes. We believe that training

will be less of a barrier to new riders than

testing and will have positive impacts on

rider safety provided that trainers are

properly regulated. This is a view

c u r r e n t l y s h a r e d b y a l l pa r t i e s

concerned.

What happens next?

The legislation must be written into UK

law by the 19th January 2011. This

means that it must be put before the

house either during the 2010-2011

session or before. Lobbying work will

continue to make sure that the impact is

proportional and sensible and that

training is mandated as opposed to

testing.

 

So it looks as though it is an EU thing that the UK are being dragged into, and are making this law at the latest date possible.

Well, that's how I read it anyway

[mealexme]

Also from ROSPA

New Categories of Motorcycles: A1, A2 and A

The Directive requires members states to change the size categories of motorcycles, set

minimum ages for each category and require staged, progressive access to more powerful

machines. Direct access to larger machines is allowed for riders who meet minimum age

requirements and pass a test or take approved training. Member States must impose a twoyear period between the minimum age for categories A1 and A2, and between A2 and A.

Category A1

Motorcycles up to 125cc/11kW with a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0.1 kW/kg (including

motor tricycles up to 15kW). The minimum age in Britain will be 17 years. Riders must pass a

theory and practical test.

Category A2

Motorcycles up to 35kW with a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0.2kW/kg and not derived

from a vehicle of more than double its power. The minimum age in Britain will be 19 years.

Progressive Access

Those who have held a full A1 licence for at least 2 years, and are at least 19 years old, can

gain a full A2 licence by passing a practical test or approved training on an A2 machine.

Accelerated Access

Those who have held an A1 licence for less than 2 years can gain a full A2 licence, provided

they are at least 19 years old, and pass the relevant theory and practical tests.

Direct Access.

Those who have not held an A1 licence can gain a full A2 licence, provided they are at least

19 years old, by passing the relevant theory and practical tests.

Category A

Unrestricted motorcycles above 35kW (including tricycles over 15kW). The minimum age in

Britain will be 21 years, or 24 years if Direct Access.

Progressive Access

Those who have held a full A2 licence for a minimum of 2 years, and are at least 21 years old,

can gain a full A licence by passing a practical test or approved training on an A machine.

Direct Access

Those who have not held an A2 licence can gain a full A licence, provided they are at least 24

years old, by passing the relevant theory and practical test on a motorcycle of at least 600cc

and 40kW power output

... you know what. I cant post the link, but find the rospa site (the vehicle one, not the prevention of accidents one) and type in the search bar "third-driver-licensing-directive"

[Nell]

Sorry if I've missed it in the above info, but will they be three singular tests, or are you going to have to do a mod1 and mod2 for each category? Could end up being six tests?

Edited January 16, 2012 by Nell