New Bike licencing confirmed?

[mealexme]

Sorry if I've missed it in the abover infor, but will they be three singular tests, or are you going to have to do a mod1 and mod2 for each category? Could end up being six tests?

Was wondering that, and havent found anything about it on the many sites I have looked at

EDIT: f**k my life! Apparently "The 3rd European Driving Licence Directive was

agreed by the EU in all but minor technical aspects in

late 2006." by the way.

Anyway, Nelly, according to mcita

 

In principle every stage of learning will require a

rider to complete training and pass both off road and

on road tests at each step towards the full A

category Licence

Can't believe they will be paying for mod1 and mod2 x3 minimum! They had better put the prices down at least! I know if I hadnt done my test by next jan I would be looking at getting a car instead!

[Ingah]

Even if they do knock a couple of quid off the tests, hell, if they make the tests free, the barrier of having to go through so many pass/fail tests is significant. Most of which are performed on a bike bigger than you're allowed to practise on independently. So pushing up the cost of training too, as it all needs to be DAS / hire-bike style.

And to my understanding you CANNOT directly access the A2 test, you must first go through the A1 test and wait 2 years.

I don't believe for a second that the knock on consequences of this legislation weren't obvious to the EU. They don't want people on bikes. Bikes are bad for KSI statistics.

[Nell]

In principle every stage of learning will require a

rider to complete training and pass both off road and

on road tests at each step towards the full A

category Licence

Can't believe they will be paying for mod1 and mod2 x3 minimum! They had better put the prices down at least! I know if I hadnt done my test by next jan I would be looking at getting a car instead!

 

Money spinner for the DSA, I somehow doubt that there will be any price drop. In fact it'll probably increase to pay for them to implement the new tests.

 

Even if they do knock a couple of quid off the tests, hell, if they make the tests free, the barrier of having to go through so many pass/fail tests is significant. Most of which are performed on a bike bigger than you're allowed to practise on independently. So pushing up the cost of training too, as it all needs to be DAS / hire-bike style.

And to my understanding you CANNOT directly access the A2 test, you must first go through the A1 test and wait 2 years.

I don't believe for a second that the knock on consequences of this legislation weren't obvious to the EU. They don't want people on bikes. Bikes are bad for KSI statistics.

 

...And cars aren't? Surely there must be more car deaths per year than bikes? Could almost get my little tin hat and go into my bunker and wonder if the car industry are in any way involved, since they know a lot of young people will choose a bike over a car when they turn 17, simply because the cost of a bike and insurance are very often cheaper than the price of a car alone. Forces people into cars as a result. Win win for them.

[Ingah]

Even if they do knock a couple of quid off the tests, hell, if they make the tests free, the barrier of having to go through so many pass/fail tests is significant. Most of which are performed on a bike bigger than you're allowed to practise on independently. So pushing up the cost of training too, as it all needs to be DAS / hire-bike style.

And to my understanding you CANNOT directly access the A2 test, you must first go through the A1 test and wait 2 years.

I don't believe for a second that the knock on consequences of this legislation weren't obvious to the EU. They don't want people on bikes. Bikes are bad for KSI statistics.

 

...And cars aren't? Surely there must be more car deaths per year than bikes?

In numbers, yes. But proportionally we're talking a rate of around 15x lower per mile travelled than it is for bikes, and the EU's stance has always been tradionally anti-bike.

Could almost get my little tin hat and go into my bunker and wonder if the car industry are in any way involved, since they know a lot of young people will choose a bike over a car when they turn 17, simply because the cost of a bike and insurance are very often cheaper than the price of a car alone. Forces people into cars as a result. Win win for them.

Wouldn't rule anything out in the corrupt EU, but i've not seen any evidence to suggest this at all

[Remy]

Sorry if I've missed it in the above info, but will they be three singular tests, or are you going to have to do a mod1 and mod2 for each category? Could end up being six tests?

 

Good grief and I thought the Mod1 and 2 were bad enough!

Also, if you are 24 or over you don't really have a choice whether or not you take the test on a 125 or larger bike, unless you are happy to take the 3 (6) tests. I preferred to take it on my 125 as I felt more comfortable on it, but this would mean I'd have to go through the entire rigmarole.

Thank God I passed last year, that might have just been enough to have put me off bothering .

[techno]

Am sure this argument raged everytime they decided to change the test, however as usual its misguided legislation that will have little effect on the stats per registered rider, yes it will look better from the outside by the very fact there will be less riders.

Then again 2 of the biggest threats to the enjoyment of our life in the future health and safety or the nanny state and the bloody green mentalists, fter all the championed public transport for years with no effect eventually only the elite or people with money will have personel transport, we'll all be forced onto push bikes or walking or god forbid a bus/train.

The good times have passed people, and it will only get worse especially while tied to the eu, after all legislation like this doesnt take into account the difference in how many road deaths occour in each member state we could have the safest roads but still get stuck with it cos somewhere else in europe has disaster areas etc.

One size doesnt fit all.

[mealexme]

The good times have passed people, and it will only get worse especially while tied to the eu

Typical, just as I get into biking, the good times have past

Also, this MAG stuff (EU stopping bike mods) isn't all bull (some of it is though). MAG had a sort of meeting at crawley or somewhere, where Pete Skinner (A Euro MP) was there and seemed to know what they were on about when talking about bike mods, so maybe its not just something that MAG made up, which means we could be in for A) less people getting into biking and B) those who are not being able to customise their bikes to suit them (which I presume means you can no longer lower a bike to fit on, or put better brakes on :/ )

[techno]

The good times have passed people, and it will only get worse especially while tied to the eu

Typical, just as I get into biking, the good times have past

 

Dont worry its not just riding, I used to love driving now its a nuisance, then theres the ridiculous speed limits cost of fuel, insurance etc etc

Drinking, smoking hell even working is becoming more of a ballache its the beginning of the end as we know it, infact it started to go down hill a while ago!!

[mealexme]

The good times have passed people, and it will only get worse especially while tied to the eu

Typical, just as I get into biking, the good times have past

 

Dont worry its not just riding, I used to love driving now its a nuisance, then theres the ridiculous speed limits cost of fuel, insurance etc etc

Drinking, smoking hell even working is becoming more of a ballache its the beginning of the end as we know it, infact it started to go down hill a while ago!!

Because everything after you said "dont worry" made me feel soooo much better

[Karimura]

The good times have passed people, and it will only get worse especially while tied to the eu

Typical, just as I get into biking, the good times have past

 

:'(

I'm young, so still saving up for my dream car.. time I do get it in like 7/10 years as it's expensive, The eu will only have eletric cars or something by then making the car useless

[Bogof]

How odd that so many people are so opposed to improvements in rider training and the consequent improvement in safety.

With 1 in 10 currently dead or seriously injured within the first year of passing their test, something clearly had to be done, but as usual that "something" gets dismissed as unnecessary meddling.

If my second son decides to ride he'll have to pass the new tests. At least he'll now have a better chance of surviving long enough to pass them...

"Bring back the good old days... I really MISS dyptheria, polio and whooping cough!"

[Nell]

I understand what you are saying, but how is making people jump through more hoops improving rider safety, when a big cause of accidents, i.e a car ploughing into them because the driver hasn't been paying attention, is left untouched? Would you not agree that car driver training requires a serious overhaul as well?

[techno]

How odd that so many people are so opposed to improvements in rider training and the consequent improvement in safety.

With 1 in 10 currently dead or seriously injured within the first year of passing their test, something clearly had to be done, but as usual that "something" gets dismissed as unnecessary meddling.

If my second son decides to ride he'll have to pass the new tests. At least he'll now have a better chance of surviving long enough to pass them...

"Bring back the good old days... I really MISS dyptheria, polio and whooping cough!"

 

The usual diatribe, we all know more tests dont make more safety, infact I could have written that for you.

Infact your agument proves making the test harder doesnt work, its got progressivly more difficult yet its still 1 in 10

Also If safety was an issue why is it aimed only at the young how many born agains etc get injured/ killed with a xero accident policy why not make everyone do the 3 step test?

Something may need to be done this however is not it, maybe nothing can be done, maybe if some of these bureaucrats got out of their posh offices once in a while they may see this, its all about stopping people riding!

As for that last sentance, yeah real relevant

[Bogof]

I understand what you are saying, but how is making people jump through more hoops improving rider safety, when a big cause of accidents, i.e a car ploughing into them because the driver hasn't been paying attention, is left untouched? Would you not agree that car driver training requires a serious overhaul as well?

 

More tests = more training = more chance of survival

A big cause of RTCs is a failure to accept that in a majority of cases there is usually something the rider could have done to have avoided the collision. Anyone that fails to recognise that should read Roadcraft - its the police training manual for good reason

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-Roadcraft-Police-Handbook-Motorcycling/dp/011341143X

[Throttled]

only wish they applied the same rules to cars

 

[Nell]

I understand what you are saying, but how is making people jump through more hoops improving rider safety, when a big cause of accidents, i.e a car ploughing into them because the driver hasn't been paying attention, is left untouched? Would you not agree that car driver training requires a serious overhaul as well?

 

More tests = more training = more chance of survival

A big cause of RTCs is a failure to accept that in a majority of cases there is usually something the rider could have done to have avoided the collision. Anyone that fails to recognise that should read Roadcraft - its the police training manual for good reason

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-Roadcraft-Police-Handbook-Motorcycling/dp/011341143X

 

but that again is putting the onus on the biker once more. Why is it up the biker? Why shouldn't car drivers be subjected to the same?

[techno]

I understand what you are saying, but how is making people jump through more hoops improving rider safety, when a big cause of accidents, i.e a car ploughing into them because the driver hasn't been paying attention, is left untouched? Would you not agree that car driver training requires a serious overhaul as well?

 

More tests = more training = more chance of survival

A big cause of RTCs is a failure to accept that in a majority of cases there is usually something the rider could have done to have avoided the collision.

 

Actually theres always usually something its called not getting on a bike in the first place and thats there goal, but maybe thats just cynical.

but that again is putting the onus on the biker once more. Why is it up the biker? Why shouldn't car drivers be subjected to the same?

 

see above

[polecat]

I understand what you are saying, but how is making people jump through more hoops improving rider safety, when a big cause of accidents, i.e a car ploughing into them because the driver hasn't been paying attention, is left untouched? Would you not agree that car driver training requires a serious overhaul as well?

 

More tests = more training = more chance of survival

A big cause of RTCs is a failure to accept that in a majority of cases there is usually something the rider could have done to have avoided the collision. Anyone that fails to recognise that should read Roadcraft - its the police training manual for good reason

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-Roadcraft-Police-Handbook-Motorcycling/dp/011341143X

Putting myself in the fireing line I kind of agree Bogoff

Although I think ALL bikers should go through the ranks and work their way up regardless of age.

Start on a 125 then qualify a 250 then 500 then 1000

Its not just the young (who have less sence of danger than us oldies...Fact)

I worry about the Older ones who never rode a bike( and did the hard yards) then pass das and get a 1000cc superbike as well.

So Staged licence for all bike riders.... and as for cars ..... its a totaly diferent ball game, any fool can drive a car,all you do is twiddle your wrists and press the pedals !

Bikes take Skill to ride, like Aircraft, and they never give student pilots euro fighters to learn on, they start with a cessna

[techno]

Thats fine polecat at the moment you have the choice to do that, this laxy legislation takes that choice away for the (using bogofs figures) 90 percent it doesnt affect.

Its just knee jerk, how old is the test in its present form? The same arguments will have been trotted out back then and as they "need" to still do something about the ksi stats making the test harder didnt work so instead of flogging a dead horse why not come up with a radical new approach?

Instead of 3 tests 1 slightly longer test perhaps and then restrict new riders of any age to a max of say as a round figure 100 bhp for a length of time, it stops people then instantly getting that superbike and doesnt hinder too much new people coming into biking.

[polecat]

Thats fine polecat at the moment you have the choice to do that, this laxy legislation takes that choice away for the (using bogofs figures) 90 percent it doesnt affect.

Its just knee jerk, how old is the test in its present form? The same arguments will have been trotted out back then and as they "need" to still do something about the ksi stats making the test harder didnt work so instead of flogging a dead horse why not come up with a radical new approach?

Instead of 3 tests 1 slightly longer test perhaps and then restrict new riders of any age to a max of say as a round figure 100 bhp for a length of time, it stops people then instantly getting that superbike and doesnt hinder too much new people coming into biking.

Sorry I was not clear

The changes they are making are pretty dumb and what I was suggesting is at the present I think things are also dumb and the changes do not make much diference to the problem they are trying to solve.

What you suggest, one test and staged restriction (albeit i think 100 bhp a little high) is a much better and fairer way to make the changes.

I would think 15 bhp for a year then 33bhp for a year then 100bhp for a further year (or two)

Only problem is someone could pass the test and then sit on the licence for a few years and go out get an R1 having only rode a 125 (as is the case now) so they need some kind of measure that the rider has gained some experience (hence tests) but maby there is a more radical solution like instead of time based it is somehow measured in miles !

15 bhp 500 miles 33 bhp 2000 miles ect

Not sure how this would work but I am sure there is a way

[Bogof]

but that again is putting the onus on the biker once more. Why is it up the biker? Why shouldn't car drivers be subjected to the same?

 

Simple. Nobody is EVER more responsible for YOUR safety than YOU. The moment you stop taking responsibility for your own safety, is the moment your family need to check your life cover is sufficient.

The car driver argument is a distraction, and not relevant. KSI statistics point the finger firmly at motorcycles and their riders as being the most vulnerable group. Are you suggesting that the authorities should ignore the numbers and target car drivers simply because it would be seen by some to be fairer?

Personally I'm quite happy that they are concerned enough about the KSI level amongst newly qualified motorcyclists that they are trying to do something to address it. The fact that horse riders, for example, are not being affected at the same time doesn't concern me.

[techno]

Personally I'm quite happy that they are concerned enough about the KSI level amongst newly qualified motorcyclists that they are trying to do something to address it. The fact that horse riders, for example, are not being affected at the same time doesn't concern me.

 

Newly qualified riders under 24 But agree that the car argument is irrelevant.

@polecat The 100 bhp figure was just an example, but yeh people could always sit on a licence but tbh that sort of happens anyway due to alot of bikes just been toys for the weekend.

I just believe more tests as an answer is flawed, afterall we all still have to ride to the rules of the road its not like your "allowed" to go faster on a thou.

[Ingah]

I think you're missing one vital thing here guys - The extremely high probability that this will vastly increase the proportion of learner-riders who never go on to the further training - or at best ride around for years on L-plates before eventually being able to afford the rigorous training/tests (if they survive that long). The one-day CBT will be the only training this increasing group of riders will have had.

I can't think of a worse thing for the KSI per rider statistics.

[Nell]

but that again is putting the onus on the biker once more. Why is it up the biker? Why shouldn't car drivers be subjected to the same?

 

Simple. Nobody is EVER more responsible for YOUR safety than YOU. The moment you stop taking responsibility for your own safety, is the moment your family need to check your life cover is sufficient.

The car driver argument is a distraction, and not relevant. KSI statistics point the finger firmly at motorcycles and their riders as being the most vulnerable group. Are you suggesting that the authorities should ignore the numbers and target car drivers simply because it would be seen by some to be fairer?

Personally I'm quite happy that they are concerned enough about the KSI level amongst newly qualified motorcyclists that they are trying to do something to address it. The fact that horse riders, for example, are not being affected at the same time doesn't concern me.

 

Not at all, however all the advanced training in the world won't stop a car running into the back of you at traffic lights because yummy mummy is too busy shouting at the sprogs in the back to realise you've stopped, or boyracer is too busy trying to show off to his mates. Apologies, but I do feel the car thing is relevant, if only to increase the awareness of other road users, and therefore to reduce the KSI's you quote.

I do agree though about the further training, I don't like the current system (no offence Alex ) where you can pass your test with no training but your cbt. I spent 4 years riding round major cities, but I wouldn't have dreamt of going for my licence without professional tuition. People passing with tests with 9 or 10 minors sits uncomfortably with me, and I think Ingah's got a point, there'll be a whole group of young people who'll sit on L plates forever.

[Bogof]

Not at all, however all the advanced training in the world won't stop a car running into the back of you at traffic lights because yummy mummy is too busy shouting at the sprogs in the back to realise you've stopped, or boyracer is too busy trying to show off to his mates. Apologies, but I do feel the car thing is relevant, if only to increase the awareness of other road users, and therefore to reduce the KSI's you quote.

 

Read Roadcraft. Every RTC involving 2 vehicles could have been avoided if EITHER party had taken a different course of action.

To use your example, had the rider been more aware of that particular risk, he may have positioned himself more to the side of the lane, or he may have noticed the car speeding towards him in his mirror and moved. He may have accepted responsibility for his own safety instead of sitting there waiting for an opportunity to scream "car driver at fault"

I'm not suggesting that car drivers are never at fault, simply saying that all road users have a duty to look after their own safety, and no matter how "at fault" the other party is, it's small comfort to your family if they have to arrange your funeral knowing that you were somehow "blameless".