Who's right and Who's wrong?

[Chrissb6]

If the police had locked the dead man first time round, the kids father might not of been put in this horrible position.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/briton-kills- ... ml#r6uS9uh

[RantMachine]

Still, not really an excuse to beat someone to death, is it?

From the news article, it certainly doesn't seem as if it was necessary to use physical force in order to protect him or his daughter in any way, just beating the living crap out of someone for being deeply creepy. Could've drawn the line at taking the tablet away from him and reporting him to the authorities. Makes me think that the father is probably a somewhat unsavoury character in his own right.

[Phooey]

I do agree Olie but, when it is your own kids we think differently. I'm not sure that I wouldn't beat the crap out of anyone taking pics of my kids! Don't think that I would go as far as killing them though ... prisoners would do that for me.

I'd happily do time to protect my kids.

[GazW]

According to the news today he killed him with one punch.

I used to scrap a fair bit as a kid/teen, it's not on anymore, too easy to ruin lives in one hit. I'd rather keep my fists to myself and not end up inside for years.

[bmwdave]

I think the opinions are going to be split mainly between fathers and yet to be fathers. I've only got boys, but frankly I understand how the father felt. The report also says " he asked the man to stop filming his daughter several times" The german man was asking for trouble and got it. No sympathy for him at all.

[RantMachine]

Don't get me wrong, I've got no sympathy for the guy. He was warned, just the reaction that finally came was rather disproportionate. The thing that would worry me is if the father gets charged and put away for this - he did it to protect his daughter, but he won't be there to protect her for the next decade or so if this goes against him. Long term consequences are a bugger.

[Fozzie]

Witnesses say he actually punched him, then climbed on top and beat him to death... If it was one punch id call it a freak death and an act of karma. He's massively overreacted!

If I caught someone creeping up and filming my sister I'd likely start on them... In all my scuffs I've never thrown the first punch but in a case like this I'd be tempted.

If I had my own little daughter and this was taking videos and I found they were of a sexual nature, as it's a small child and MY small child I'd likely go from temptation to throwing a punch but even then he'd have to be around my size or bigger, and even then I'd only do it to then get him held down until the police came. If it was some little runt I'd just rough them up and put the fear of god into them so being arrested felt like sweet relief

But if I found him with pictures of my family on there, I'd probably call the police and not let him leave.

People might find flaw in this, but firstly it takes an extreme to get an extreme from me (Id say that was reasonable), and secondly the guy in the story went to a massive extreme over just pictures of his family. And the witnesses make out he attacked to kill, not something I'd likely ever do.

[Guest]

Sentencing in Spain can be.. shall we say, occasionally on the harsh side. This being the country that sentenced a postman for 9 years per undelivered letter. grand total of 384,912 years.. though in the end they let him off with 14yrs.

The 3 guys done for the Madrid rail bombings got 42,924 years maximum.

At least this chap has one certainty to mull over before the trial.. these massive sentences actually mean nothing as Spain doesn't believe in 'whole life' sentences... by law its a maximum 40yrs.

The press made a big thing about the photographer being a perve. This is irrelevant. Its highly unlikely the killer knew this (not impossible - but unlikely) and so.. if that turns out to be the case they will throw the book at him. Lets face it.. had this fella restrained the photographer... or got into a kerfuffle that resulted in the police arriving, they would more likely than no have taken him away and used the iPad as evidence and maybe found more to justify a prosecution. The perve dealt with. and the accused killer not looking forward to missing his child growing up.

I think its only in cases of high physical danger that anyone can justify taking the law into their own hands and hope to get away with it.. ending up as a hero and not as a villain.

Its a sad world we live in.. I rather enjoy candid, street photography. though I'm no Cartier-Bresson. but.. I do really worry about being pointed at as some kind of perve.. if theres a child about. people.. as we can see, are likely to over react savagely.

Glad Im not working as a paediatrician.. then i would really be worried.

[RantMachine]

At least you can be glad to live in the UK for that one, Shorty! From a legal standpoint we're one of the best countries to work in as a street photographer. Of course from a personal discomfort standpoint we're not so great (can thank the Daily Fail for that one), but it's pretty hard to stick charges to someone for taking photos in a public place.

On a side note, starting to see why you're dreaming of that Leica.

[Guest]

I don't have kids so can be neutral about this.

The father is a nu job that needs locking up. As a photographer, I take photos of kids being kids sometimes. There's nothing in it and is completely legal. It is very unlikely that the guy had any idea of the intentions for this video and as such, had no reason to be physical at all, let alone beat him to death.

If I had my camera and I took this photo of your kid, would you beat me to death!?

This was an attack of pure rage with no apparent need for defense or protection. Lock the psycho up and throw away the key.

[Mr Fro]

However, I'd add that although one maintains the right to capture images of people in a public place, if asked by an individual to not take pictures of them then one would be obliged to stop.

[Guest]

However, I'd add that although one maintains the right to capture images of people in a public place, if asked by an individual to not take pictures of them then one would be obliged to stop.

Nope. You can, if you want, continue.

The only time it would become a problem would be if it were published for financial gain. But even then, it would be a grey area in a court of law.

[RiffmasterII]

If I had my camera and I took this photo of your kid, would you beat me to death!?.

 

If I had asked you several times to stop taking photos of my child and you continued then I would probably give you a beating

[Mr Fro]

Nope. You can, if you want, continue.

But then you'd be a dick.

Besides, you could always be stuck on for harassment.

[Guest]

Nope. You can, if you want, continue.

But then you'd be a dick.

Besides, you could always be stuck on for harassment.

Well that would be morally not legally and yes, I'd agree with you. Anyone that continues when asked not to is a penis.

[Guest]

If I had my camera and I took this photo of your kid, would you beat me to death!?.

 

If I had asked you several times to stop taking photos of my child and you continued then I would probably give you a beating

Then you would deserve a stretch too.

How can you justify physically hurting someone for that? Why wouldn't you just walk away?

[Chrissb6]

I don't have kids so can be neutral about this.

The father is a nu job that needs locking up. As a photographer, I take photos of kids being kids sometimes. There's nothing in it and is completely legal. It is very unlikely that the guy had any idea of the intentions for this video and as such, had no reason to be physical at all, let alone beat him to death.

If I had my camera and I took this photo of your kid, would you beat me to death!?

This was an attack of pure rage with no apparent need for defense or protection. Lock the psycho up and throw away the key.

Really!!

It was said that "When he (the aggressor) saw what was happening he took the tablet off him, saw the recordings, threw the device to the ground and attacked him."

"The victim had been arrested by the Civil Guard a few days ago for possession of child pornography."

After repeated request to stop filming the guy grabbed the tablet saw what was one it and flipped. If he saw pic's of his kid in there as well as child porn lm sure any father would had lost it just the same. The police should have arrested him and locked him up there and then, no way should he had been allowed to roam freely around a holiday resort where kids are playing.

[RantMachine]

I'll agree with that, does defy logic that he was wandering around free to do as he pleased. Father is still a nutjob though.

[Guest]

I don't have kids so can be neutral about this.

The father is a nu job that needs locking up. As a photographer, I take photos of kids being kids sometimes. There's nothing in it and is completely legal. It is very unlikely that the guy had any idea of the intentions for this video and as such, had no reason to be physical at all, let alone beat him to death.

If I had my camera and I took this photo of your kid, would you beat me to death!?

This was an attack of pure rage with no apparent need for defense or protection. Lock the psycho up and throw away the key.

Really!!

It was said that "When he (the aggressor) saw what was happening he took the tablet off him, saw the recordings, threw the device to the ground and attacked him."

"The victim had been arrested by the Civil Guard a few days ago for possession of child pornography."

After repeated request to stop filming the guy grabbed the tablet saw what was one it and flipped. If he saw pic's of his kid in there as well as child porn lm sure any father would had lost it just the same. The police should have arrested him and locked him up there and then, no way should he had been allowed to roam freely around a holiday resort where kids are playing.

Firstly, remember I'm neutral. I assume you have kids and thus are not being very neutral to the situation.

1. The guy probably didn't know he had child pornography. For all you know as I take photos of your kids playing in the park, I could too.

2. "Grabbed the tablet, saw what he was recording" So... his kid in a public place? Wow... give him the death penalty for that.

Sorry but this guy didn't deserve the punishment that was given. Punishment should be fair to the crime. There wasn't a crime here so how can this be the correct punishment???

The child pornography is a separate case and deserves a separate argument from taking a video of a kid in a public place.

[RantMachine]

There wasn't a crime here

 

Haven't got the time to read up on Spanish law while I'm at work, but remember that our country has particularly relaxed laws regarding photographing or filming people without their permission or against their requests. It could well be a crime to do this in Spain - I know it can be in France, but then their photographic laws are at the other end of the scale to ours. Not sure where in-between Spain falls.

Also: being childless doesn't mean you can speak impartially, it means you don't have the right bit of emotional experience to form a proper understanding of the father's position. If anything, seeing as we aren't mentally disturbed or a child abusers either, we can't claim neutrality so much as a balanced ignorance of the situation But you can still quote the law, and as you rightly said the "punishment" far outweighs the crime no matter whose moral code you subscribe to!

[Guest]

There wasn't a crime here

 

Haven't got the time to read up on Spanish law while I'm at work, but remember that our country has particularly relaxed laws regarding photographing or filming people without their permission or against their requests. It could well be a crime to do this in Spain - I know it can be in France, but then their photographic laws are at the other end of the scale to ours. Not sure where in-between Spain falls.

Also: being childless doesn't mean you can speak impartially, it means you don't have the right bit of emotional experience to form a proper understanding of the father's position. If anything, seeing as we aren't mentally disturbed or a child abusers either, we can't claim neutrality so much as a balanced ignorance of the situation But you can still quote the law, and as you rightly said the "punishment" far outweighs the crime no matter whose moral code you subscribe to!

I do have time... turns out you can't without permission.

The almighty wikipedia which is probably correct on this

I still think that beating someone to death for taking a video of your child is a harsh over-reaction that far outweighs the crime.

[techno]

There wasn't a crime here

 

Haven't got the time to read up on Spanish law while I'm at work, but remember that our country has particularly relaxed laws regarding photographing or filming people without their permission or against their requests. It could well be a crime to do this in Spain - I know it can be in France, but then their photographic laws are at the other end of the scale to ours. Not sure where in-between Spain falls.

Also: being childless doesn't mean you can speak impartially, it means you don't have the right bit of emotional experience to form a proper understanding of the father's position. If anything, seeing as we aren't mentally disturbed or a child abusers either, we can't claim neutrality so much as a balanced ignorance of the situation But you can still quote the law, and as you rightly said the "punishment" far outweighs the crime no matter whose moral code you subscribe to!

I do have time... turns out you can't without permission.

The almighty wikipedia which is probably correct on this

I still think that beating someone to death for taking a video of your child is a harsh over-reaction that far outweighs the crime.

 

Me too and I have daughters, now laying hands on them that's a different story.

[RantMachine]

Yep, I'd agree there. Beating someone to death remains a tad extreme, but I think it's fair to assume that the red mist would come down if a sicko touched your kids.

[Chrissb6]

I once worked with a guy who was the most argumentative bast*rd who walked the planet, always in your face the list go's on! Anyway he took ill and unfortunately died. He apparently died from a massive tumour in his head. That shook me rigid, the times that l been so close to landing him one "thank god l never did" If l had done so, l would probably of killed him with one punch Scary!

[RiffmasterII]

If I had my camera and I took this photo of your kid, would you beat me to death!?.

 

If I had asked you several times to stop taking photos of my child and you continued then I would probably give you a beating

Then you would deserve a stretch too.

How can you justify physically hurting someone for that? Why wouldn't you just walk away?

Who said I need to justify it? I just said I'd do it. I wouldn't just walk away because I don't really like peedos and believe they should all be beaten to death.