Voting

[Tango]

The mess that Labour left the economy in?.......

[Matt Strange]

Ordinary people were a lot better off in 1997 than they are now, you only have to look at the cost of housing back then compared to post 2010 (when labour left power). Which is the single biggest expense in most people's lives.

Brown utterly screwed Britain up for working class people, no matter what the statistics supposedly show.

[cockercas]

The previous labour goverment was borrowing masses of money.

David cameron is doing tge right thing with the cuts, we may not like it but it has to be done.

Just need someone with the balls to revamp the benifits system so people cant play the game.

[al_stu]

There is no money.

They all promise all these things.

There is no money to spend.

Whoever gets in will have to see out more spending cuts until we are back on an even keel.

I don't want the Scots in as they just look after their own (Scottish votes on English laws is why we pay tuition fees and they don't. ..)

Cameron seems decent and bright. Think he's done alright with a god awful mess (not saying it's labours fault we'd been over borrowing for years, at government and personal debt levels).

Miliband doesn't inspire any confidence.

No one's come out with anything game changing. Saying we need an alternative to austerity? What? Borrow more? Yeah sounds good let's just get into more debt and see if we can be the next spain/greece/italy/Portugal.

The 'rich' are taxed to the eyeballs. The super rich can afford to piss off to another country. And people like me and you who work hard to earn a decent wage just get battered while council tenants pop out more babies for bigger houses. It should never pay better on benefits than it does in work. It's shouldn't even be close. If you can smoke or drink on benefits then you're paid too much.

There's hard decisions to be made and it won't be nice but if we do it now then in ten years we'll reap the rewards. If we don't, in ten years this country will collapse Under a mountain of debt.

[Matt Strange]

Yep, masses of debt & cheap credit for the masses = Brown's Britain.

[Grumpy Old Git]

OK - I give in....

THATCHER started it (and from the comments on this thread - She was obviously a Labour MP!)

[Matt Strange]

At least when she said something was going to happen, it generally did, no matter if you agreed or disagreed with the policy or decision.

About as close to a true conservative as you'd get, unlike Cameron, Howard & IDS

[NeilM]

I agree GOG

Thatcher did start it.

[al_stu]

Don't care who started it.

Care who's going to finish it...

[RiffmasterII]

Don't care who started it.

Care who's going to finish it...

 

The Russians

[al_stu]

Don't care who started it.

Care who's going to finish it...

 

The Russians

 

It's always those pesky Russians

[Matt Strange]

Don't care who started it.

Care who's going to finish it...

I suppose whoever has got the guts to cut spending, stick the interest rates up & restrict the amount people can borrow I would have thought.

[Joeman]

basically, the country is F*cked. too many work shy British layabouts moaning that the jobs they never even dreamed of applying for have been taken by immigrants who took the chance to leave their own crappy countries to find a better life.

Meanwhile everyone likes to slag off the bankers for upsetting the economy with their irresponsible money juggling whilst getting themselves into debt with payday loans and blaming "the system" for their own inability to manage their spending habits. And even though they've never worked, or intend to work a day in their miserable lives, they cant share accommodation, and insist the state provides them with an entire house of their own, and moan they get taxed for having empty unused rooms that could be used for housing homeless people..

They use these free houses to sit around watching Jeremy Kyle on huge flat screen TVs and playing playstation, in between having sex with anyone who's interested and producing offspring doomed to live the same meaningless, sad parasitic lifestyle.

Meanwhile the young kids wishing to better themselves and avoid the jobless scumbag council house trap by working hard in school are essentially taxed for going to university in the form of extortionate tuition fees, that the Scottish dont have to pay and have to live in shared accommodation they they pay for out of a loan from the government that will be clawed back as soon as they start earning a wage!

its a shambles, and i dont think any of the parties have the balls to fix it as it would alienate too many of the voters because they cant be seen to be upsetting the poor jobless people and helping the middle class get educated and live a non-state-dependant lifestyle as thats classed as elitist!

[Fozzie]

Basically the above statement from Joeman echoes my sentiments exactly.

I try not to pay attention to political stuff any more as I like trying to look at the big picture, and I get a soured opinion of a lot of people.

Many in poor financial situations bother me a lot when they just continually complain the rich aren't taxed enough. Despite the fact if we were all on 20% the rich peoples 20% would be 1000% or beyond of some peoples total salary.

Labour are recently spinning up that from the 70s to 90s debt spiralled, ignoring that the number did but its value did not. They leave out inflation, and ignore the death of the coal industry that became more costly than profitable. This annoys me as it's looking in the past. Tories got in after Brown made some blunders exaggerating the effect of a recession that was coming regardless of who was in the seat.

I have a feeling we will have a tory/Ukip party with the lib dems.

The things people say don't change much, 10 years ago people were looking at the rich with derision. This has arguably gotten worse as I think people see rich people as "they have all the money" and they do... But they also pay most of the tax. Even I get the odd jibe of "it's lucky for some", which highlights the bigger problems in society and therefore the choice in politicians today. Me tactically choosing a decent line of work and putting my back into it is passed off as luck.

So god help this country as a lot of people want something for nothing!

[Mr Fro]

Bring back apprenticeships (properly), that's what I say!

University is completely meaningless nowadays anyway - we need to give the young 'uns a trade that they can use rather than a degree in knitting.

Edit to chip in with Fozz:

Hard work has gone unheeded - most people who have done well in life have done so through the application of graft. Cash hasn't just flooded in of it's own accord.

Those that work hard to earn their living get taxed to buggery to support those unwilling to work. Fair enough, tax must be paid to support public services but knowing my hard earned goes towards providing three types of subscription TV to some career unemployed family in an expensive London borough irks me somewhat.

We've all seen programmes about people on benefit who loaf about smoking £8/pack fags and quaffing back the booze. All they ever seem to do is complain that they're not given enough 'pay'.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Mr Fro

[Fozzie]

Bring back apprenticeships (properly), that's what I say!

University is completely meaningless nowadays anyway - we need to give the young 'uns a trade that they can use rather than a degree in knitting.

 

Apprenticeships are still there, I'm a graduate industrial apprentice

Issue is money, or lack of, I was expected to survive on £850 a month in london. Some added government funding to pad out the apprentices wage would probably result in a stronger economy as more employers would be game for it, more people in general would do it, and as soon as you graduate you are in a full time job, paying your taxes like the next chap.

[Joeman]

All very well, but whilst we still have a nation of workshy layabouts, who can make more money on the dole than on an apprentiship and have more fun staying at home smoking weed, watching TV and copulating with the local girls who have been brainwashed to think getting pregnant is their ticket to a free house and free money, who's gonna do the apprentiships??

[Glorian]

Worked as an apprentice at age 23 (now 25) it is a great way of starting off, the wage should be slightly higher than it is for younger people as some get paid like £50 a week which is crazy. Being over a certain age i had to be paid minimum wage, but now they refuse to pay me more.

Apprenticeships are great providing companies don't use them as cheap labour.

[Fozzie]

All very well, but whilst we still have a nation of workshy layabouts, who can make more money on the dole than on an apprentiship and have more fun staying at home smoking weed, watching TV and copulating with the local girls who have been brainwashed to think getting pregnant is their ticket to a free house and free money, who's gonna do the apprentiships??

 

I think benefits as you know it would be scrapped if I had a chance at it.

There'd be a points system, that was quite basic. If you have a genuine reason not to work then you would have a high amount of points.

If you worked but the area was hit by hard times, you'd get a moderate amount to get you by.

If you were looking for an easy ride, you're going to have a bad time. No benefit, and if you are of a young working age, just like students, I'd make their housing costs accrue like a loan, with a limit that stipulates if they exceed, they are booted from the home. So like EVERYONE else, they'd have to pay for their home.

Bit rough and harsh sounding I'm sure, but if you took a basic idea and refined it, you could keep those in need supplied, while also pushing others to motivate themselves to work... Hopefully. It's not a human right to be given things for free imo.

[Glorian]

http://memegenerator.net/instance/61947457

(if image doesn't work http://memegenerator.net/instance/61947457 )

[Mr Fro]

But Fozz and Glozz - As an apprentice you can't expect to be on big money - I survived working in London on minimum wage when I was 18/19. Yes I had a crappy flat in the arse end of Dartford, yes my electricity key sometimes ran out and yes I'd occasionally be a week or so away from payday with £0 in the bank and not much in the cupboard.

To me, apprenticeships are in part about paying your dues - you must start at the bottom (which coincidentally a lot of school leavers don't understand). Apprentices' get paid, albeit not a huge amount, to learn from someone who is highly proficient in their field. The ultimate aim of this sort of scheme is that you will learn and earn faster than you would otherwise.

I have an apprentice now who is in his first year. He has learned a huge amount in the past 8 months - he was a bit lazy and had a habit of falling asleep in the first few weeks but now he's a blinder and I wouldn't hesitate to give him a permanent job because he got his head down, did the learning and has proved himself. He can be a cheeky, obstreperous twat though which is probably why I like him so much.

It's not so much the availability of these courses or indeed jobs themselves that are the issue, it's the mind-set of the people who can't be arse to apply themselves or get out and get on with it. It sounds a nobby thing to say but these folk need to be "energised" and encouraged to realise that they can have a better future for themselves if they put in the effort.

[NeilM]

True

I started my apprenticeship in 1990 on £30 a week.

A proper old school 4 year scheme.

You got treat like crap earned crap money but you got your head down and did your time.

Don't regret a single minute of it.

Never been without a job since and it taught you discipline.

[RantMachine]

To go off the topic of apprenticeships for a moment;

Are Labour still the only party with policies aimed at improving life for private tenants? At one point I said to a friend that I'd vote for whichever party realised that I don't give a shit about how many new houses they build or how cheap they make them to buy, I just care about how much the bugger that buys them all can rent one out to me for

[Fozzie]

But Fozz and Glozz - As an apprentice you can't expect to be on big money - I survived working in London on minimum wage when I was 18/19. Yes I had a crappy flat in the arse end of Dartford, yes my electricity key sometimes ran out and yes I'd occasionally be a week or so away from payday with £0 in the bank and not much in the cupboard.

To me, apprenticeships are in part about paying your dues - you must start at the bottom (which coincidentally a lot of school leavers don't understand). Apprentices' get paid, albeit not a huge amount, to learn from someone who is highly proficient in their field. The ultimate aim of this sort of scheme is that you will learn and earn faster than you would otherwise.

 

This is true, especially for beginners.

But I still think apprentices don't get much in the way of pay rises and should to give them a sense of progression. Usually as the company is worried about ones that fail as even small pay rises means if one drops out, it's a bigger loss.

My company got around this through promotions, in one company I've been: Trainee, Technician, Junior Designer, Associate designer, and Designer. It gave me a good incentive to work for my title, and I think many other companies could learn from this.

But when I started I found my own way around things, I offered a cheap repair service for bikes/cars etc. Pulled in the extra dosh I needed to make ends meet each month. Which is an experience I'll never forget as I try to never be wasteful with my wage even now. Whereas some of the university labour generation seem to waste what they have, then complain everyone else must be having it handed to them

[soll]

big article in MCN today about what the parties are doing about bikes.