Mr Fro Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I have an old Canon 350D I've use for Urbex related photography so have only ever used it in daylight or for really long exposures somewhere dark so have never needed a flash.Now, I had a "great" idea that I could use it for a photo-booth type thing for my (cough, cough, wedding, cough, cough) so I ordered a flash (this) which is supposedly compatible with my 350D.I stuck it on the cam and while it does flash when the shutter is activated, it doesn't compensate for the flash as it would if I was just using the built in one. Since the cam will be set up to run from about 7 to midnightish, it really needs to be able to adjust the shutter speed to account for the changing light levels. Option B is to stick it on manual with a fixed aperture and exposure and hope that I get it right! I guess there's option C of knocking the aperture/exposure compensation down a good bit and use the flash as a fill...I'm aware that there are hotshoe adaptors and other flashes available but I don't want to throw a load more money at this and it not to work so could use some advice from you photo nuts please.Cheers,Fro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Are you planning to have this unmanned?? If so would be bonkers and a disaster for your camera waiting to happen when uncle bob reckons he know's what to do and starts adjusting things or knocks it over after a few too many... Anyway, the issue that you're going to have will be getting a nicely lit photo. I assume, you have bought an external flash in order to get a more flattering light than the typical over-exposed subject/under exposed background? If so you have two options with this setup;1) you can bounce the light source from a white ceiling and it will fall onto your subjects, without leaving the harsh shadows you would get with a straight in your face flash... For this, you will need a room with a short ceiling as the more the light has to travel, the more of it you will lose. I did this using that method;2) you take the flash off-camera and modify it with something that diffuses the light before it gets to the subjects. Again, removing harsh shadows. Typically this will be done with a white umbrella for example but you can budget it up with a white t-shirt if you have to... the thing is, because you only have one flash, it will end up being very contrasty. Something like this; And of course, the more people you add to the shot, the harder it will be to evenly light them all. The other thing is, you will probably be working in full manual mode, which won't be able to sort it's self out unmanned. The problem with flash bouncing, is that you'll also be in manual mode... so either way, you're screwed being unmanned lol. I can't see how you'll do it without a lot of work in post production, cropping and adjusting exposure. I'd probably be looking to go down the bouncing the light avenue though either way... Your other problem will be powering the flash unit... If you're bouncing it, you'll probably be on full power. Meaning you'll get around 200 shots or less and will need to recycle for around 5-10s between shots. What will you do to power it when you need to change batteries?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Oh yeah - just looked at the photos of the flash. It's universal and only has the one pin in the center which tells the flash to "fire". This means you have no choice but to use it in manual mode. Which will mean adjusting settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RantMachine Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Are you still working in Cambridge? If some constructive suggestions and practical assistance would be of use while you get to grips, I could go over your options with you some time if you bring the kit over my way after work one day. I already spend my entire working life doing this sort of thing, so what harm will a few extra hours do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RantMachine Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Also I can probably be a big help with working out how best to carry off the booth itself, mobile studios and booths are kinda our company's thing, and I designed the current generation. Must be doing somethin right for us to have 200 of the things booked in a single fortnight next month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I think ollie is just after an invitation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fro Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Cheers lads, nice stuff!The "booth" is actually a sort of alcove thing in a set of windows - it's about wide enough for a sofa or something so the cam will be about 2-2.5 metres away from the subject. I'm bastardising a remote to a red, mushroomoid button which will be fixed on a pole/pedestal in front of the sofa so there should be no need to touch the cam. It'll be on a 2sec delay so there will be enough time to press it and strike a pose! I'm making up a box for the cam to make it look like one of those old fashioned jobbies and it will have a monitor rigged to it (if it works) so people can see what they've just taken.My kit is pretty basic but if you want to check it out then I'd willingly accept all offers of help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RantMachine Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't think it's quite as bleak as Phil makes it out to be. He's got a very valid point about battery life, but there are a few ways to work around it.Option 1: you can get little things that look like AA batteries with a power cable dangling out and going to a wall socket. They don't recycle the flash as quickly as using decent batteries will, but then again your application is going to be more about endurance than speed, so these could be a tidy option. Assuming the flash has a ready light, it could be worth setting things up so that the people on the sofa can see it so they know when the camera is ready to go.Option 2: If there's a way of setting it up so that the flash itself is safe from collision with tipsy guests, I could loan you on of my Bowens flash heads. Free standing, all the bells and whistles, mains powered, and a lot more output than your little flash.With regards to exposure metering, it's just going to be a case of sticking it in manual and throwing enough flash at the subject that the ambient light doesn't factor into the equation. This applies to the colour temperature of your shots too - if the flash isn't providing near 100% of the light for the exposure you'll get a nasty mix of colours in there. Depending on the environment you're using it in, the little flash you've got might struggle to do all this. At full power it'll cope fairly well with overpowering ambient artificial lighting, so setting it up away from direct sunlight is a good call. If this is going to have a space or room to itself, blacking out the windows (binliners & masking tape then draw the curtains to hide the mess) and replacing the light bulb with a low wattage will be a big help, or screening off the area somehow. I have a light meter somewhere which could also be handy for getting the lighting set up, if I can actually find it...Just drop me a PM if you want to organise something, I'm sure I can make time to help out I think ollie is just after an invitation I'm just hoping he'll rock up on one of the bikes, I've forgotten what a working one looks like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fro Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Bleak? I thought that was quite cheery for Phil! I've nabbed this image from the web - it shows the alcove thingy at the back on the left. Looks like it's got a sofa in already.http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/05/49/7b/9d/paddock-house.jpgAs you can see, it's a glassy affair with no scope for blacking out.I've had the flash on about 30-40% in varying amounts of dinge and it's managed to give some pretty good snaps with a fast recycle. I hadn't considered just going for out and out overwhelming all other light sources - would this not make it look like there was a small nuclear device going off in the corner of the room every time someone takes a snap? The lighting in the room is fairly low in the evening but the transition from evening natural light to artificial is what's concerning me.Power wise - I've got a mains adaptor for the cam and I was planning on having some spare AAs for the flash. This was based on using a lowish flash output but if it's going to need to be ramped up then I'll rig up some sort of permanent power lead - I'm viewing pretty much all the stuff apart from the cam as disposable so am happy to chop it about so long as it doesn't und up looking too guff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzie Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 You've got a good camera for the job, I had the old 350D Not actually that good with low light if I remember right, so a flash will do really well with one of these. Will be reading this thread to see what gets done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RantMachine Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Ah, right - not as simple to work with as I'd hoped, but still achievable.Essentially the biggest benefit with taking the approach of overwhelming all other light is that you won't have to adjust the exposure on the camera as the ambient light changes. Also if you don't take this approach your photos will all have a mix of the colour temperature of the natural light, the artificial light from the building itself, and the flash. In theory the flash should be a close-ish match to the daylight, but not so much that you should rely on it giving consistent results when you use them together. And editing white balance on a few hundred images each with multiple colour temperatures it play is an utter bast*rd Yes, it'll be a pretty hefty flash each time it fires - but to be honest, one the sun starts to set it'll be pretty darn noticeable no matter how powerful it is. If you really want to spare everyone else from the flash, you could maybe look at hiring some kind of free standing curtain to go across the entrance to the alcove? But you'd need to be wary of people blundering into the screen and knocking the camera on the inside. Perhaps contact the venue and ask if the couch can be rotated 90 degrees? Then you could go for a setup a bit like this (if you get a second flash, which will hardly break the bank):Have the flash off to the side as your main flash, with a lot of diffusion on it as Phil was talking about. That way the majority of the light is being thrown away from the rest of the room, and you'll get nice catch lights and visually pleasing lighting. Plenty of guides online for DIY softboxes. The on camera flash is on a low power setting and with some diffusion, all it's doing is filling in the shadows that you'll get from having your main light off to the side. Plus if you take the slaved flash approach it'll be triggering the second flash, but I recommend the PC cord approach over this otherwise every camera used by a guest will set your flash off!Also, you're going to get some nasty flash reflections from those windows, especially in the evening. Might want to see about draping something behind the sofa, or getting a pull-up screen of some sort. A nice curtain or drape made from a dark red, blue, or purple velvet (or a similar material) will work wonders, if you can arrange one. Doesn't reflect any light back into the main part of the room and looks very classy if you intentionally ruffle it a little.I'm stupidly busy at work this week so can't waffle on as much as I'd like to, plus I hate typing out long winded explanations like this - it never works well in photography! Not adaptive enough, need to be able to roll with the punches faster than this allows. But these are all the kind of challenges I have to deal with at work so I know full well that whatever you want is ultimately achievable with enough persistence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fro Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 You've got a good camera for the job, I had the old 350D Not actually that good with low light if I remember right, so a flash will do really well with one of these. Will be reading this thread to see what gets done.It's a good, solid bit of kit. Mine has spent most of it's working life underground - stick it on a tripod, open the shutter, bimble about with a torch and close it down some time later. Many good points there Ollie although I begrudge having to cough another wedge on it. Ah well... I'll have to take a trundle down there and measure up to see if turning the whole shebang round would work - there will be a 4' Lego man standing next to the cam so I'm not too concerned about people clattering in to it and I've got some dark blue stuff as a backdrop already.I guess I've got the luxury of being able to go and test it out in situ as the venue are very accommodating. Better see if I can find and old brolly to rig up a softbox then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RantMachine Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Begrudging spending more on a photographic setup when you're using a 350D and a £29 flash? You don't know you're born Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fro Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 What are you trying to say smarty pants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RantMachine Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Put it this way - I'm at work at the moment, the camera and lens used to take the photos I'm editing right now would set you back as much as a brand new CBR125... Hell, thinking about it the contents of my camera bags are worth more than my bike would've been when it was brand new...A £29 flash is a drop in the ocean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I've had the flash on about 30-40% in varying amounts of dinge and it's managed to give some pretty good snaps with a fast recycle.It won't be for the purpose you need it for.You will need to bounce it and you will be on full power to light a group of people with a medium pitched ceiling. Your recycle time will drop for every 20 shots or so, depending on the quality of the battery. 2s>3s>5s>7s etc... If you had a body which handled high ISO (6400+) well, then you could get away with a high ISO & lower power setting on the flash but the 350D will only give you good enough images at around 800-1600 ISO which will mean you are heavily reliant on artificially lighting your subjects.You're also throwing in a major curve ball by wanting to expose the BG and the subjects. This is big boy territory in the photoraphy world and to do it unmanned is a big success in my books lol. In this instance, you need the camera body to expose the BG and the flash unit(s) to expose the subjects. In this situation, you WILL need more light sources since you'll have a lower ISO than you need for your subjects to expose for outside thus, needing to get the light source in elsewhere. This will also change as the ambient light changes and you will rely on both high ISO and flash. Ollie has offered to borrow you a very good light unit there... I'd bite his arm off and then you have two lights either side and can trigger them from your pop-up flash. I think it requires a bit of going over and testing with a run-through with someone that knows how to do what you need to be done. Again, probably worth putting some ketchup on Ollie's arm... go through it, get some ideas and find a solution that will work on the night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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