Proposed changes to CBT and tests

[Stu]

The key difference is Mum and Dad aren't going to sit on pillion of a 50cc moped while wee Johnny learns to ride. If they did they won't help much with wee Johnny's machine control.

Cars can quite practically have Mum or Dad in the passenger seat supervising the L plate driver while they practice what had been taught in their lessons.

That's not practical on a moped or 125, so wee Johnny on his L plates needs a way he can legally get out on the roads and practice on his own.

The CBT is it.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

But that is no excuse to let uneducated idiots loose on the roads after a few hours training

 

That would lead to the demise of the takeaway delivery way of life .... could you handle it ?

 

Yes I don't deliver!

[Stu]

But that is no excuse to let uneducated idiots loose on the roads after a few hours training

 

But its still better than what we had pre 1990 which was nothing

The old Part 1 test was intended for those tat had been riding for a while and wished to get a full licence and the RAC/ACU course before that was a voluntary do it if you wish type of course that very few took up.

 

This is true but I'm not saying let's go back to before 1990

Lets move forward and make everyone pass a test with the required amount of training and not just basic knowledge

[Guest]

But that is no excuse to let uneducated idiots loose on the roads after a few hours training

 

That would lead to the demise of the takeaway delivery way of life .... could you handle it ?

 

Yes I don't deliver!

They won't even deliver to my house

[Stu]

They won't even deliver to my house

 

Have they met you

[someone]

Stop allowing people to renew the CBT.

 

Within a month of completing the CBT I became ill, and so as I was being diagnosed and adjusting to meds I was unable to touch the bike for most of the first year. The second year went okay before being cut short by an unlucky accident.

So my original CBT only effectively lasted eleven months of riding, and as a non-commuter that was mainly only on weekends.

Sure, those riding at least five days every week for two years should not have much excuse for renewing instead of taking a proper tests. But everyone's circumstances are different and that level of inflexibility will just penalize people like me who cannot get the same value out of their two years.

Someone once told me they have been renewing their CBT for years, and the reason was being no good at the theory. So why not simply make that mandatory to be able to renew? I had passed mine when I renewed. And you can take an A1 test on your own bike for the cost of a CBT anyway, so that way there would be no valid reason to renew rather than go for a proper test unless you particularly needed the extra time. And in my case I was still recovering from the effects of my accident when I had to renew, there is no way I would have been able to pass a full test at that time.

As for Stu saying you should have to pass a test to just be allowed on the road, I would not have bothered. Paying the several hundred pound cost of a DAS course would have been a stupid risk for nothing. Some people can just do a DAS course without any prior experience, but I know I could not and I am sure I am not unique. I need to learn in my own time in my own way.

Car drivers pay £25-or-so for an hour per week behind the wheel with an instructor for months on end but can drive any time they want so long as they have an experienced driver with them. It cannot work that way with bikes. Taking away the CBT would just make it too expensive for many people.

I like to think I am a reasonably safe rider, I have not hit anyone or anything, nor caused anyone else to be involved in an accident. Yet going by both of you I should not be allowed on the road because I am not able to pass a test immediately.

 

There was something about being allowed onto motorways as well.

 

That is only for car drivers. And as the proposal is not for them to be mandatory, and will require dual control cars with roof signs removed, it would just be easier for instructors to do the same lessons on major dual carriageways instead. Which are already allowed and do not impose any such extra requirements.

[Stu]

As for Stu saying you should have to pass a test to just be allowed on the road, I would not have bothered. Paying the several hundred pound cost of a DAS course would have been a stupid risk for nothing. Some people can just do a DAS course without any prior experience, but I know I could not and I am sure I am not unique. I need to learn in my own time in my own way.

 

And this is a prime example of what I am going on about

You may have done the CBT but you say you need to learn in your own time and way! what if that own time and way is the wrong time and way? IE making mistakes not knowing how to position yourself on the road or junctions not able to anticipate and judge?

You may have failed the test but you are not on the road risking your life through lack of training

I really don't think the main roads commuting to and from work in rush hour for probably 99% of L platers is a safe place to get practice in

Most of them have probably never picked up a highway code let alone passed a theory test! how are they supposed to know what all the road signs mean?

Its like saying heres a bit of paper to say you have rode around on a bike with an instructor for a bit now go learn how to ride but don't worry about the highway code you don't need that!

[Guest]

They won't even deliver to my house

 

Have they met you

Probably

[JRH]

Does the CBT not include rudimentary knowledge of the Highway Code including road signs?

[TC1474]

Does the CBT not include rudimentary knowledge of the Highway Code including road signs?

 

Yes

But obtaining the DL196 is not dependant on them passing any test. All they have to do is satisfy the instructor that they have attained a basic satisfactory understanding and ability of each module which includes the Highway Code. There is no test at any stage.

But also look at how many experienced drivers have no knowledge of the Highway Code?

Many seem to think that once they have passed their test there is no need to ever pick it up again.

Even now I get told by those that should know better that the Highway code refers to the Slow, Middle and Fast lanes

The Highway Code has never made such references, and when I have shown these people what it states they say "well it used to" No it didn't.

You ask a group of experienced road users questions from the Highway Code and I guarantee 90% of the questions will be answered incorrectly. Make them learn the HC at Learner level and within 12 months they will have completely forgotten what was in it.

How many people here can honestly say that they pick uo and look at a copy of the Highway Code on a regular basis?

I will start the ball rolling and say "Yes" I do because of my job and as an examiner I need to be able to ask questions, but how many others have?

Interesting to know.

Edited January 2, 2017 by TC1474

[Stu]

How many people here can honestly say that they pick uo and look at a copy of the Highway Code on a regular basis?

 

Once a year!

we get one thrown at us at work!

Doesn't mean we read it though

During our recent CPC training we had a few questions asked on the highway code

there was 12 questions I got 11.....our trainer got 6

[rennie]

The only time I've looked at The HC since I passed whichever test I was taking at the time

is to answer questions on here!

I do think I learn from here 1 way or another and that has to be good!

I didn't have to do CBT when I bought my first moped but The dealer took me and the bike

to a 2 hour off/on road training session then I rode it home

[Guest]

I just fail to see how someone riding a bike is any different to driving a car!

If they can't pass a test then they shouldn't be allowed on the road

The key difference is Mum and Dad aren't going to sit on pillion of a 50cc moped while wee Johnny learns to ride. If they did they won't help much with wee Johnny's machine control.

Cars can quite practically have Mum or Dad in the passenger seat supervising the L plate driver while they practice what had been taught in their lessons.

That's not practical on a moped or 125, so wee Johnny on his L plates needs a way he can legally get out on the roads and practice on his own.

The CBT is it.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

But that is no excuse to let uneducated idiots loose on the roads after a few hours training

 

Cyclists?

[Six30]

Reminds me , must do my test .

[Stu]

Cyclists?

[Guest]

Stop allowing people to renew the CBT.

 

Within a month of completing the CBT I became ill, and so as I was being diagnosed and adjusting to meds I was unable to touch the bike for most of the first year. The second year went okay before being cut short by an unlucky accident.

So my original CBT only effectively lasted eleven months of riding, and as a non-commuter that was mainly only on weekends.

Sure, those riding at least five days every week for two years should not have much excuse for renewing instead of taking a proper tests. But everyone's circumstances are different and that level of inflexibility will just penalize people like me who cannot get the same value out of their two years.

Someone once told me they have been renewing their CBT for years, and the reason was being no good at the theory. So why not simply make that mandatory to be able to renew? I had passed mine when I renewed. And you can take an A1 test on your own bike for the cost of a CBT anyway, so that way there would be no valid reason to renew rather than go for a proper test unless you particularly needed the extra time. And in my case I was still recovering from the effects of my accident when I had to renew, there is no way I would have been able to pass a full test at that time.

As for Stu saying you should have to pass a test to just be allowed on the road, I would not have bothered. Paying the several hundred pound cost of a DAS course would have been a stupid risk for nothing. Some people can just do a DAS course without any prior experience, but I know I could not and I am sure I am not unique. I need to learn in my own time in my own way.

Car drivers pay £25-or-so for an hour per week behind the wheel with an instructor for months on end but can drive any time they want so long as they have an experienced driver with them. It cannot work that way with bikes. Taking away the CBT would just make it too expensive for many people.

I like to think I am a reasonably safe rider, I have not hit anyone or anything, nor caused anyone else to be involved in an accident. Yet going by both of you I should not be allowed on the road because I am not able to pass a test immediately.

 

There was something about being allowed onto motorways as well.

 

That is only for car drivers. And as the proposal is not for them to be mandatory, and will require dual control cars with roof signs removed, it would just be easier for instructors to do the same lessons on major dual carriageways instead. Which are already allowed and do not impose any such extra requirements.

 

Neither of the sentences I have highlighted in your post are true.

I haven't said you shouldn't be on the road if you can't pass a test immediately. I am saying that you shouldn't be able to continually renew your CBT and ride indefinitely on L plates. L plates are for learners who intend to take a test.

I'm not sure Stu is saying L plates should not be on the road either, but he has said it should be the same as cars, which would means L plate riders would have to be supervised whilst on the road. I'm not sure that is practical myself though.

I have said how it was when I passed my CBT in 1995, I haven't made any suggestion as to how it could work in future. In 1995 that did work, me and all my mates on bikes knew we needed to get our lessons and tests sorted, or we'd be off the road. For most of us that means we only had 1 year to pass the test as we needed to pass on a 125, and most of us started at 16 on a 50cc, so by the time our 17th birthday came around our CBT was already a year old with only 1 year to go.

You need to read what people have actually written and take it at face value, not add your own emotions and interpretations and come up with what you think people have said. The fact we're suggesting something that would have adversely affected you is nothing personal.

I have sympathy for your situation, but you can't set road safety policy based around the health misfortunes of a tiny minority. Current driving licenses will expire at 75, some of us will be unfortunate enough not to be able to renew due to medical reasons, that doesn't mean we should extend the expiry age for everyone else to 77. Again it's not personal against those with medical issues, it's just policy.

Your theory test idea only works for people who can't pass the theory test.

The A1 test is not any more expensive than the CBT, but it is much harder to pass, and most people need lessons to teach them what is needed to pass, which is way more expensive. So if you intend to stay on a moped or a 125, just sticking an L plate on your bike and renewing your CBT every 2 years is a damn sight easier and cheaper. And more dangerous for yourself and everyone else around you!

[TC1474]

Good job I didn't mention that I would like to see DAS and intensive courses banned

[Guest]

Many seem to think that once they have passed their test there is no need to ever pick it up again.

Even now I get told by those that should know better that the Highway code refers to the Slow, Middle and Fast lanes

The Highway Code has never made such references, and when I have shown these people what it states they say "well it used to" No it didn't.

You ask a group of experienced road users questions from the Highway Code and I guarantee 90% of the questions will be answered incorrectly

 

Haha, you really want a feck up?

My wife drives on a French license and is entitled to do so until she is 70 years old.

She passed her test in France and so the only time she has picked one up is when she has been hiding mine (ahem...I mean putting mine "away").

She's never opened it and read it.

[Guest]

Good job I didn't mention that I would like to see DAS and intensive courses banned

 

Can't disagree, more training should be needed, but DAS clearly is sufficient to pass the DSA test, and the only training available beyond this requires you to have a full license.

Most born again DAS riders accidents are single vehicle country road.... in other words too fast round a corner and ran out of talent. Doesn't matter whether they did DAS and got straight onto a 600, or whether they did a year of lessons on a 125. When they eventually get their hands on a 600, they are going to get intoxicated by the power at some point and stack it through a hedge.

[Arwen]

As someone currently going through the tests, I see most of these changes in a positive way.

A lot of the points are to do with apparently regulating training schools. This can only be a good thing, I've seen and heard all sorts of horror stories of people doing their first CBT. Some were barely on the road for 30min, but still issued a pass certificate! Other were not even given the change to go out on the road, for no apparent reason and force to pay another whole day of training.

Yes, there are a lot of great schools out there, but equally there are loads of bad ones.

The mention of doing a course to gain your full licence rather than sitting tests is good I think. Most people get at least a bit nervous about sitting a test. Which natuarly effects your abilities. Doing a course over 2 days or more, to demonstrate your road compantancy and general handling skills is more realistic in my book. For example, how many times have you had to do a perfect u turn (rather than turn in the road), without touching the ground since doing MOD1?(if you actually had to do MOD1) You should be tested on your ability to safely turn in the road, not on your "the ground is lava and my feet can't touch it" prowess.

The skills needed to pass mod 1 are required and very helpful to have. But the test is not realistic.

As for sitting the theory test before or alongside the CBT. My option would be completely new to the road = theory test must be passed before sitting CBT. Already have a licence = theory test alongside CBT.

[Six30]

Many seem to think that once they have passed their test there is no need to ever pick it up again.

Even now I get told by those that should know better that the Highway code refers to the Slow, Middle and Fast lanes

The Highway Code has never made such references, and when I have shown these people what it states they say "well it used to" No it didn't.

You ask a group of experienced road users questions from the Highway Code and I guarantee 90% of the questions will be answered incorrectly

 

Haha, you really want a feck up?

My wife drives on a French license and is entitled to do so until she is 70 years old.

She passed her test in France and so the only time she has picked one up is when she has been hiding mine (ahem...I mean putting mine "away").

She's never opened it and read it.

 

She might have to now .... Dam them Brexitiers

[Guest]

Many seem to think that once they have passed their test there is no need to ever pick it up again.

Even now I get told by those that should know better that the Highway code refers to the Slow, Middle and Fast lanes

The Highway Code has never made such references, and when I have shown these people what it states they say "well it used to" No it didn't.

You ask a group of experienced road users questions from the Highway Code and I guarantee 90% of the questions will be answered incorrectly

 

Haha, you really want a feck up?

My wife drives on a French license and is entitled to do so until she is 70 years old.

She passed her test in France and so the only time she has picked one up is when she has been hiding mine (ahem...I mean putting mine "away").

She's never opened it and read it.

 

She might have to now .... Dam them Brexitiers

 

All the EU laws are already enshrined in UK law. IMO it's something that probably should be changed after Brexit to improve or road safety, but it probably won't be because it would affect so many EU immigrants, so I think she'll be fine to continue on as she is.

[Joeman]

Mate of mines dad had a brain tumour so they took his UK licence away, but was able to keep his European licence and continue to drive... !!

[Westbeef]

The first 4 points seem reasonable to me, nothing too drastic. The 5th one, depends on what they plan on introducing/removing.

[Six30]

Fook sake Westbeef is that you in your signature video ... You fitted a turbo

[Stu]

Fook sake Westbeef is that you in your signature video ... You fitted a turbo

 

Still no sound though.....