Yet Another London Attack....

[Stu]

I'd struggle to think of a safer place to be than the 1love thing, I'd imagine security went into overdrive.

I do wonder why anybody would want to go without earplugs though, that is a musical line-up for deaf people. If the likes of Robbie Williams is playing on the rally disco I'll not be climbing into the caravan.

 

This is true about security you won't be able to fart without someone knowing about it!

It was the same in Hull the other week when we had the BBC big weekend! there was armed police everywhere and everyone was searched before they boarded the shuttle busses and all busses where searched before people where allowed to board then everyone was searched before they went in to the venue. The also had the army patrolling the fields for days before the event

As for the rally we have Elvis!

[MarkW]

Discouraging them isn't the aim, taking them out of circulation is.

 

To take them out of circulation you must first know who they are, and that's precisely the problem with this sort of attack - it can be carried out by any internet-radicalised halfwit with a kitchen knife and a set of car keys long before they ever appear on the intelligence service radar.

We've completely lost our heads about jihadists (if you'll pardon the expression). I mean really - two SAS helicopters on London Bridge FFS? I remember when they were reserved for embassy sieges!

[Guest]

What about the people we do know about? The 500 cases MI5 are investing just now.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Anonymous

[MarkW]

What about the ones we do know about? The 500 cases MI5 are investing just now.

 

What about them?

[Guest]

Take them out of circulation. There's more than 30 of them in Six30's first post. This is an ideology that needs knocked out, not just the individuals that might carry out an attack.

[Guest]

We let Anjem Choudhary run al-Muhajiroun publicly for nearly 30 years before we finally jailed him. Should have been tackled much sooner.

[Mawsley]

Some may find this of interest, an article by the excellent John Pilger: http://21stcenturywire.com/2017/05/31/manchester-atrocity-lifts-rock-of-british-foreign-policy-reveals-faustian-alliance-with-extreme-islam-john-pilger/

[MarkW]

Take them out of circulation. There's more than 30 of them in Six30's first post. This is an ideology that needs knocked out, not just the individuals that might carry out an attack.

 

And that's all well and good, but we also need to stop the obscene media circus that as good as immortalises every terrorist. Andy Warhol badly miscalculated when he said everyone would be famous for fifteen minutes: Carry out even the most inept terrorist attack and you'll be famous for a damn site longer than that.

I can't help thinking that if we restricted media coverage to "Earlier today another brainwashed f*ckwit went bang. Now here's the weather..." they'd be rather less inclined to give it a go.

[Guest]

Take them out of circulation. There's more than 30 of them in Six30's first post. This is an ideology that needs knocked out, not just the individuals that might carry out an attack.

 

And that's all well and good, but we also need to stop the obscene media circus that as good as immortalises every terrorist. Andy Warhol badly miscalculated when he said everyone would be famous for fifteen minutes: Carry out even the most inept terrorist attack and you'll be famous for a damn site longer than that.

I can't help thinking that if we restricted media coverage to "Earlier today another brainwashed f*ckwit went bang. Now here's the weather..." they'd be rather less inclined to give it a go.

 

Can't disagree with that. How the families of the victims would feel about that I don't know.

[MarkW]

It occurred to me early this morning that years ago, when we had the IRA terror campaign, whenever an IRA bomb went off on the mainland i.e. London / Manchester etc I don't seem to remember there being wall to wall coverage for a week aferwards like we have now.

The incident was reported in the news and we quickly moved on.................. I'm wondering why has this changed now??

They say terrorists need publicity........well. they're certainly getting plenty of that these days!!

 

Precisely. As a kid in the 1970s and 80s I spent every Saturday in Manchester visiting my gran, and lost count of the number of bomb scares we endured - let alone the couple of real ones we had.

That said, I do remember fervently hoping for a bomb scare every time my mother dragged my round Marks & Spencer's...

[MarkW]

Can't disagree with that. How the families of the victims would feel about that I don't know.

 

I imagine the less of it they see in the media the happier they'll be.

[Guest]

Some may find this of interest, an article by the excellent John Pilger: http://21stcenturywire.com/2017/05/31/manchester-atrocity-lifts-rock-of-british-foreign-policy-reveals-faustian-alliance-with-extreme-islam-john-pilger/

 

Interesting, some if it wasn't news, the bits that were unfortunately not surprising if true.

There's no doubt invading Iraq was a mistake and the internment of Iraqi's en masse along with Baathist Military and Al-Qaeda in Camp Bucca, gave birth to Islamic State. Foreign policy in the middle East led Assad to give them sanctuary as he felt he needed all the allies he could get, and now they turned against him. Syrian rebel fighters trained by us, were loosing against Assad so they joined Islamic State, can't beat them join them.

We need also to look at foreign policy for sure, but I'm not sure I'd agree that foreign policy "justifies" terrorism (not that you said it does Dave, but some people have been saying that).

Look what Islamic State do to their own people, their aim is to establish a caliphate under Sharia Law and anyone who doesn't follow their ideology is an enemy, they aren't freedom fighters trying to escape an oppressive foreign policy. Not in 2017 they aren't anyway, they might have been in 2003, now it's just hate and revenge.

[Joeman]

Well we'll be going for a "terror pint" tomorrow just as we always do after a London terrorist attack..

[NeilM]

I'd struggle to think of a safer place to be than the 1love thing, I'd imagine security went into overdrive.

I do wonder why anybody would want to go without earplugs though, that is a musical line-up for deaf people. If the likes of Robbie Williams is playing on the rally disco I'll not be climbing into the caravan.

 

This is true about security you won't be able to fart without someone knowing about it!

It was the same in Hull the other week when we had the BBC big weekend! there was armed police everywhere and everyone was searched before they boarded the shuttle busses and all busses where searched before people where allowed to board then everyone was searched before they went in to the venue. The also had the army patrolling the fields for days before the event

As for the rally we have Elvis!

Doningnton last weekend

[Throttled]

So, 500 active terror plots and three happen. That is an outstanding success rate. Going after everyone for any suspicion of involvement will radicalise even more. It did not work in Northern Ireland, there is no evidence it works anywhere it has been tried.

 

That's 500 being looked at, and potentially another 500 in the pipeline, NOT 497 prevented. They can't be prevented as the law doesn't currently allow any action to be taken.

Theresa May said in her speech this morning, which started just after my post, in the last 3 months, there have been 3 attacks, and 3 prevented. Success rate is currently 50%. She also hinted strongly at very similar changes in the law to those suggested in my post.

 

The Prevention of Terrorism Acts makes the preparation of an attack illegal, so an active terror plot can result in arrest and convictions.

[Guest]

So, 500 active terror plots and three happen. That is an outstanding success rate. Going after everyone for any suspicion of involvement will radicalise even more. It did not work in Northern Ireland, there is no evidence it works anywhere it has been tried.

 

That's 500 being looked at, and potentially another 500 in the pipeline, NOT 497 prevented. They can't be prevented as the law doesn't currently allow any action to be taken.

Theresa May said in her speech this morning, which started just after my post, in the last 3 months, there have been 3 attacks, and 3 prevented. Success rate is currently 50%. She also hinted strongly at very similar changes in the law to those suggested in my post.

 

The Prevention of Terrorism Acts makes the preparation of an attack illegal, so an active terror plot can result in arrest and convictions.

 

If the evidence can be legally obtained and is admissable in court.

[Throttled]

So, 500 active terror plots and three happen. That is an outstanding success rate. Going after everyone for any suspicion of involvement will radicalise even more. It did not work in Northern Ireland, there is no evidence it works anywhere it has been tried.

 

34 dead in 3 months in the UK an outstanding success rate would be none, we need to take as hard a line as possible with these fuc*^ers , as said changes in the law needed.

 

None would be best, but perfection is not a realistic aim.

[Throttled]

That's 500 being looked at, and potentially another 500 in the pipeline, NOT 497 prevented. They can't be prevented as the law doesn't currently allow any action to be taken.

Theresa May said in her speech this morning, which started just after my post, in the last 3 months, there have been 3 attacks, and 3 prevented. Success rate is currently 50%. She also hinted strongly at very similar changes in the law to those suggested in my post.

 

The Prevention of Terrorism Acts makes the preparation of an attack illegal, so an active terror plot can result in arrest and convictions.

 

If the evidence can be legally obtained and is admissable in court.

 

That reads like you are suggesting we abandon the rule of law.

[Guest]

The Prevention of Terrorism Acts makes the preparation of an attack illegal, so an active terror plot can result in arrest and convictions.

 

If the evidence can be legally obtained and is admissable in court.

 

That reads like you are suggesting we abandon the rule of law.

 

No just change it so (a) extremism itself becomes an offence, not a tolerated choice, permitted by freedom of speech, and (b) extend the authorities power to act when a terror related crime is suspected. We've already done (b) to an extent within the Terrorism Act but it needs extended.

[Throttled]

It is more than likely that any provision you can think of is already there

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/all?title=prevention%20of%20terrorism

somewhere, in the five pages of prevention of terrorism legislation for the UK.

[Guest]

It is more than likely that any provision you can think of is already there

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/all?title=prevention%20of%20terrorism

somewhere, in the five pages of prevention of terrorism legislation for the UK.

 

Whatever, I'm not a politician or a lawyer.

Prime Minister said this morning we've been too tolerant of extremism in our society and suggested change in law is needed, I don't like the woman on lots of levels, but I liked that bit.

If its already there we need to start enforcing it.

The fact is we have hate preachers in our country, we have demonstrations like the one Six30 posted photos of, we have these 500 cases MI5 are looking at, we have Muslim communities who are aware of extremism in their communities and turned a blind eye, we have British people who have travelled to Syria to fight for IS and come home and live free. None of it should be allowed to continue.

Since all of that has been allowed to continue, I assumed the law didn't cover it.

[Joeman]

This is how London bridge looked this morning on my walk to work..

Still traces of blood and a clearly visible path where the van ran the people over.. presumably it's been scrubbed to remove the worst of the blood?

 

Cops everywhere and bunches of flowers left for the victims..

But the view from the bridge was as good as ever

[Guest]

Hard to imagine what went on there just under 48 hours ago and now life goes back to normal

[Guest]

This is how London bridge looked this morning on my walk to work..

Still traces of blood and a clearly visible path where the van ran the people over.. presumably it's been scrubbed to remove the worst of the blood?

20170605_054353.jpg

Cops everywhere and bunches of flowers left for the victims..

But the view from the bridge was as good as ever

20170605_054452.jpg

 

I'm there regularly to visit customers at the Galleria and More London, and my London office is a 10 minute walk away, we should have a beer one lunchtime at Borough Market just to stick the middle finger up to the terrorists!

[Joe85]

It is more than likely that any provision you can think of is already there

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/all?title=prevention%20of%20terrorism

somewhere, in the five pages of prevention of terrorism legislation for the UK.

 

Whatever, I'm not a politician or a lawyer.

Prime Minister said this morning we've been too tolerant of extremism in our society and suggested change in law is needed, I don't like the woman on lots of levels, but I liked that bit.

If its already there we need to start enforcing it.

The fact is we have hate preachers in our country, we have demonstrations like the one Six30 posted photos of, we have these 500 cases MI5 are looking at, we have Muslim communities who are aware of extremism in their communities and turned a blind eye, we have British people who have travelled to Syria to fight for IS and come home and live free. None of it should be allowed to continue.

Since all of that has been allowed to continue, I assumed the law didn't cover it.

 

We also have 20,000 less Police Officers on the streets.

"Enough is Enough"

Couldn't agree more, Theresa. Pack your bag and f**k off out of Downing Street.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Joe85