Survival Skills

[Tankbag]

@Tankbag it's probably everyone pausing over nostalgia from the 80s when they had a Ford Cortina with yellow headlights.

On a serious note could be the fact it's something different causing a 'what was that' second look which is good until it becomes common and people stop noticing again.

 

In that case I need to start a petition that only motorbikes are allowed yellow lenses

[The Spin Doctor]

Hi @The Spin Doctor As a result of this thread I've started following your FB page, very informative. What's your views on yellow head lights on bikes ? I ask because since fitting a yellow Ventura lens protector on my previous & current bike I have definitely noticed I'm being noticed more (too many noticed in that sentence) my oppo has now fitted one to his bike & in my mirrors I can say he doesn't blend in with the sea of car headlights. The only downside I think is I seem to get blocked more when filtering & I wonder if it's drivers thinking I'm a foreign bike ( brexit & all that)

 

Thanks for the follow - glad you're enjoying the FB Page

Funny you should mention yellow headlights Guess what I have on my two work bikes?

I actually fitted the headlamp cover to the first one because a rock took a chunk out the plastic lens and I thought I'd rather have a cover on it than have to replace the headlight, and they happened to have a clearance sale on yellow ones. Having stuck it on, a couple of trainees mentioned it was easy to spot when they were looking for me in the mirrors after we got separated in traffic.

That was about 2010/11. And what should I find in the last few weeks but a couple of research papers examining if conventional dipped beam lights are being swamped the all the white day running lights being fitted to cars, trucks and buses. They suggesting yellow lights would stand out - one suggested permanently lit turn signals (as used in the US for many years), the other a yellow headlight.

I never rely on a driver seeing me in mirrors - I nearly took out a CBR600 that was overtaking me years ago in my van but that's another story - but (warning - flippant, non-researched answer ) if you're getting blocked more it could just be that they're seeing you coming up more often and probably veering sideways whilst looking in the mirror trying to work out what it is

[The Spin Doctor]

When I got talking with James Sanderson from Kent Fire and Rescue Service about what we could put together for the third pro-active module for Biker Down...

 

That's where I saw you then on the Kent firebike course at brands hatch! A fantastic course that was..

Welcome to the forum

 

Thanks for the welcome

And yes, I deliver the 'roadcraft' session (I hate that term, everyone thinks it'll be boring lol). I call it the 'crash course'

Glad you enjoyed the day. They're hard work and I'm out on my feet by the time I get home particularly if I've been out on track, but they are so worthwhile and fun to deliver

[The Spin Doctor]

@The Spin Doctor From what I could ascertain from all the studies I read when I was genning up on if I was likely to die if I took up motorcycling there’s a sparcity of decent research and little agreement on anything.

I did read some interesting stuff I’d really like to re-read but I just can’t remember enough detail to find it and I wondered if you might be able to piece it together and tell me who it is I’m after, I think it’s an old one-

He’s an American motorcyclist who’s been writing articles for riding magazines for decades n decades. He asked the readers to tell him about any of the accidents they had no matter how big or small with details of what happened. He received many hundreds of responses and analysed them collating the data to give some interesting results. If I remember correctly the two that really stuck out were about severe accidents and fatalities-

Firstly that it isn’t your age thats the most important factor in an accident it’s the number of years riding experience with serious accidents peaking with 3-4 years riding experience.

Secondly that all recorded motorcycle accidents stats are based on when the emergency services are called which is only a tiny percentage of all accidents. Around 80% of the time the rider jumps up sharpish and gets themself and their bike home.

Any ideas who this is? I’d love to look at the graphs again.

 

I suspect that the person you are referring to is David Hough.

The observation about experience and crashes ties in with UK data, although I think the peak comes a little earlier. I don't know if you have heard of the 'ladder of learning' = you start at unconscious incompetence - we don't know what we don't know, then move to conscious incompetence during training - we suddenly realise how much we don't know, then as we learn we become consciously competent - we have to think about everything we're doing and finally we reach the stage of unconscious competence - we now longer have to think to perform a task. Clutch control is a good example.

The problem is that the ladder lives on a board with other ladders and snakes!

When we get to the top of one ladder - unconscious competence - it turns out where actually at the bottom of another! So what happens after any training is basically people get enough confidence to use the skills and apply them without thinking but then push the envelope - maybe they ride faster or on a different kind of road, or even get a very different style of bike. Now they are back at the point of unconscious incompetence - they don't know what they don't know - again.

I've had a few email chats with David Hough and he now thinks that the only way to get bike casualties in the US down is to discourage people from riding altogether. I'm not in full agreement with that and think there are other way to reduce crashes but so long as there are humans in control there will be mistakes on the road.

[The Spin Doctor]

@Tankbag it's probably everyone pausing over nostalgia from the 80s when they had a Ford Cortina with yellow headlights.

On a serious note could be the fact it's something different causing a 'what was that' second look which is good until it becomes common and people stop noticing again.

 

There is an argument that's happened with hi-vis...

But the aim of a yellow headlight is not so much to jump out of the background at you, so much as to say "hey, this light here belongs to a bike". So it won't necessarily improve conspicuity, but could improve recognition once seen.

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

[mention]The Spin Doctor[/mention] that’s him. How satisfying, THANKYOU Now just to find exactly the article I’m after, the tabloids seem to have a love affair with a completely different version

No I was not aware of the ‘ladder of learning’ as a concept but it makes perfect sense to me. Partially why I stuck with my cycling username Slowlycatchymonkey was because it very quickly became apparent there are so many variables that alter the outcome when riding (a mobike) that it was sensible to take it slowly and explore all those variables before making any alterations (eg increasing speed), cement one thing before exploring another. That’s also when I realised there’s ALWAYS going to be a variable to master.

I’m not finding myself agreeing with Mr Houghs argument of dissuading riding altogether, the constant battering I received comments wise about how likely I was to be crippled or how many ways there is for me to die made me a nervous rider for sometime and that jitteryness is not conducive to decent riding- at all.

I also left the MC Rider forum (not a fun place) because it’s constantly reinforcing safety messages in a top down heavy fashion by telling you stories about someone who’s either done something daft and come a cropper or something completely out of the riders control wiping them out. Fear is not conducive to producing smooth quality riding.

Of course he’s right in one way if you stop people riding altogether they’re won’t be any motorcycle accidents..... thats fun.

[S-Westerly]

If the answer from one expert is to stop people riding motor bikes altogether where do you draw the line? As someone else said "life is a fatal disease". Any slightly dangerous activity would be subject to censure be it biking, skiing, sky diving etc. Surely it is an individual's choice to enjoy any (legal) activity and to practice and train to get as good as you can for the level you want to be at. Riding the roads well does not mean I'm riding the TT next year!

[The Spin Doctor]

Perhaps I phrased it badly... David Hough doesn't believe in encouraging motorcycling.

Here's a bit of perspective to understand where he's coming from is the situation in the US where the primary force for rider training - such as it is - is the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, which is funded by the US motorcycle industry. There's clearly something of a conflict there - should the agency putting people on bikes be the same one that sells them the bike in the first place? California thinks not, and jumped ship to hand over the state-wide training franchise to Lee Parks and his Total Control school. I believe other states have followed.

It's something that should concern us here in the UK actually as the Motorcycle Industry Association (MCIA) are busy taking control of basic training here in the UK via their own industry-led scheme, the Motorcycle Rider Training Association (MRTA).

[The Spin Doctor]

Safety - or more accurately, risk management because there's no such thing as safety on a motorcycle - is a tough one.

My take on it is that we make the best decisions when we have a good grasp of the risk and the potential consequences.

For example, we should all know about the potential for SMIDSY type collisions where cars turn into our path. But what's rarely given airtime is that whilst the risk of collision with an oncoming car turning right across us is a much lower than the emerging car from our left (it's the most common collision in built-up areas between a bike and a car), what's not so well recognised is that the crash with the oncoming car turning right is far more likely to kill the rider. It was only when I did a BikeSafe in 2001 or thereabouts that this crash got a mention and I twigged to the risks.

The same goes for speed. Most fatals in urban areas where there's a collision at a junction involve riders exceeding the speed limit (I hate to say it but it happens to be true). Why? Probably because of a mix of basic physics (if you brake from 35 rather than 25, you'll still be doing about 20-25 when you hit the object you would just have stopped in front of from the lower speed) and drivers not realising the bike is travelling quicker than other traffic. But riders tend to think "it's only a little bit faster than everyone else, what harm can it do?". Nothing much... until things go wrong.

How do we get the message over? Well, you don't ram it down our throats. I switch off as quickly as anyone when told "it's all for your own good". Give us the right information in a form that can be understood and I think many riders will make better decisions.