Yet Another ER5 Project

[Fozzie]

Thought it was about time to do an update. In short, I've been really busy. I also took on a couple of unexpected, quick tidy up and sell projects in the form of a 2000 Ninja 600 and a 2000 GSXR SRAD 600. I sold the Ninja a few weeks back, and then the SRAD was bought by my old man who quite fancies it. 

 

In the meantime, the ER5 has been worked on. But it has been irritatingly slow. It revs to 5000rpm, hits a horrible mis-firing phase, then carries on. It sounds bang to rights carbs, but they've been rebuilt, deep cleaned, and reset to stock multiple times now. I swapped out the coils as failing under load is a common precursor issue, and it didn't help. Then I waited for a CDI unit as these are known for blowing if the reg/rec ever fries, and when a good priced one appeared on ebay it arrived, but made no difference. It was when we took the airbox off to check the operation of the carbs that we noticed something, the engine has a nasty backfire on cylinder 2. A large bang straight out through the carb body. 

That sounds like a timing issue, or a valve that is bent/not sealing. It's a while back now, but when I first got the bike, I dropped the engine and found it nearly seized solid as the cam chain tensioner had been installed at full extension. And the engine was out of time by about 10 teeth. When I took the tensioner out and turned over the engine, it felt like nothing was hitting, so I assumed I'd been lucky. So on Saturday in my dads workshop in Wales, I dropped the engine out and went investigating. 

 

Engine was timed right, one headache out of the way. When the issues are finally resolved, I'm cleaning up the gasket surfaces throughout the bike as this thing is crusty. 

Head off, only took 2 hours to get to this point. They are like Lego to pull apart. 

 

Removing the collets to extract the springs and drop the valves. They all looked fine until I got to cylinder 2's inlet side... 

 

Even with a good clean, this inlet valve still has carbon deposits on its top face. Loads of loose carbon flaked off when I got it out, and the inlet...

I think I found the problem, the other inlets had small signs of carbon build up, but on this one there are heavy deposits. The valve isn't sealing and combustion gases are getting back up the line and likely disrupting the fuelling. Or that's my theory at least. I also found one valve spring installed the wrong way up, it was the inner spring. So that all but confirmed someone has been as deep as this before, and not been thorough. 

My plan going on now is first of all, buy a parts washer and clean all of this up including the gasket residue. Use a block sander and a medium (for ally) grit to smooth the surface and show any low spots. It's a cheap engine, so I'm trying to do it all by hand. 

 

The bit I didn't photo was I actually split the cases before I packed it in for the day. It took an hour once the bolts were all out for it to come free. During which my dad was tapping with a rubber mallet and a small piece of the casting came off. It only holds one part of the sprocket cover, so I should be able to reattach it with some fab time and thin ally plate. But below is the underside of the engine with the sump off. I've basically decided that as the cam chain tensioner was badly installed, it has likely damaged the existing cam chain, which is 52,000 miles old. So I've bought a new chain to sling on. 

 

In the meantime, I'm ordering a bunch of new bolts and hardware that's relatively cheap. Get this bike put back together better than it came apart. I'm going to try and grind in the valves with coarse and then fine grit paste, and see how good a seal I can get. Once it looks good, clean it all up, re-install the engine, refreshed with a new timing chain and oil/assembly oil used throughout, and then give it a go. If parts arrive, I'll be doing it in the next few weeks. 

 

...Sorry for the essay, I like to be descriptive... 

[Fozzie]

Another weekend back in Wales to attack the ER5. I only really had to service the top end, but dubious about this engine I went deeper. I didn't trust the old cam chain on there as the previous owner installed the tensioner at full extension. And who knows how long it ran like that. 

 

With the cases split I had the transmission out and cleaned with solvents. I then cracked the nuts on the pistons con-rods and lifted the crank up and slid the old chain off. New chain on. There was about 5-6mm difference in length, not horrendous, but I wonder how new the old chain was.

 

Once done, cleaned, and torqued back up. I put the cases back together after a clean/new gasket, and cleaned up the sump. I used a brass wire brush to clean the old gasket off. I used sealant remover to get the really stuck on gunk off. 

Pesky oil pipes kept trying to fall out, so was quite a mission getting the cases back together. Lining up the gear selectors as well in what looked like neutral.

 

I then spent a good couple of hours carefully block sanding and cleaning the head gasket surfaces. I used lots of fresh rags soaked in new oil to catch any detritus. And used compressed air and a lot of lint free clothes. When back together, the engine will be spun on the starter motor to get oil pressure back up, and then the oil/filter changed. And then again after a 10-15 minute run. Taking as many precautions as I can. 

 

Trick is to use 180-240 grit to start. Then 400. Finish on 600. Even pressure, and work equal amounts in both directions to create a super fine cross-hatch. Head gaskets seal based on the smoothness of the mating surfaces. You can get away with rougher for iron heads. Ally demands a smooth finish. There are scales you can find from machine shops based on head gasket material and the sealing surface material.

 

I perched myself on a small stool, and whipped the valves out one by one and lapped them to get a better sealing surface. I went quite hard on cyl 2, which was having backfire issues. 

Getting there, I'll be repeating this on the next visit. As I'll have a parts washer so can be more liberal with the grinding putty knowing I can effectively clean it off. 

 

I then set about 5-6 hours of cleaning with a rotary tool, and brass wire brushes. Several cans of brake cleaner to clean down all surfaces. And began building up the lower end of the engine. 

Fresh gaskets all round and clutch cover back on. 

 

And that's where I left it. Doused in WD40 to prevent corrosion. Next visit I'm gunning to get it together and started. Will be taking a day off to get the top ends valves lapped in again. And clean. And after a lot of checking, put in and span over by hand, then by starter motor, and finally with a live ignition. 

[Fozzie]

Was back to it this weekend. As the weather was lovely, I rode to my dads workshop in Anglesey on the bike. I got to it first thing in the morning, but I had to go back 2-3 steps from where I wanted to. Firstly, I was paranoid I hadn't put the balancer shaft in fully lined up, and I was paranoid I'd put too much sealant near the crank (you're meant to leave 1cm a side)... So I took the crank apart again. Twice. As when I put it back the first time, I noticed one of the transmission shafts hadn't seated in its dowel and pulled it apart, scraped off the gasket and started again. I'm getting adept at it at least.

I then lapped the valves one more time with the fine compound, as I got my eye in last time and was able to turn around a single valve in about 5-7 minutes. So with only 8 to do, I got them all sorted in an hour. Making sure each spun smoothly in its seat. 

 

Loaded up, and good to go. 

I won't bore with the crank/valves again. I gave it a good clean down in a parts washer. I bought this for my dad as a birthday present... He wanted one for a while, but didn't have a project to justify getting one. As I did, I offered to buy it if I could use it on my projects. 

I found a dowel in the wrong spot. I'd noticed it the first time I stripped the bike, it was actually a dowel for the valve cover, not the valve caps. I replaced it with a fresh dowel I had spare. Getting it out was a *bugger*

I got the head on, torqued down, and all oil pipes reassembled. Oiled everything to help reduce the dry start wear. 

Engine back in the bike, and ready to go. For a test fire. It was turned over by hand, then on a drill to spin the engine at 100-200rpm, then on the starter motor until the oil pressure light went out indicating good pressure. 

 

It was a nerve racking moment. As anything wrong and the engine would grenade itself quite quickly. The head was polished smooth with 600 grit and washed down as much as possible to keep grit out of the engine, but it had marks that suggested a bad previous ownership (it was a learner bike). But the crank case could leak, or the main oil seals. The head gasket could blow immediately. And instead, it fired into life, and for the first time in this project, idled well (even with the airbox off) with the distinct Kawasaki twin "chug-a-chug-a-chug-a-chug-a" exhaust note. No leaks I can see yet. 

 

The engine now sounds very tight, there's none of the old rattling, backfires through the carb etc. When the airbox was on, it struggled to get over 4000rpm and the exhausts were noticeably hot. The headers were nearly glowing. The delkevic exhaust is more free flowing, and the bikes are setup lean from factory. I suspect wear and tear, along with that exhaust now necessitates the needle raising 2 notches to richen the mixture and help the transition onto main jet. I'm going to get some new diaphragms, and ultra sonic clean it all one more time, then tweak the needle height until I get a smooth rev through the range. It's possibly a weekend of graft away from being rideable.... 

[Fozzie]

Been a while since I updated this, after a string of little jobs that I didn't pap, I got the bike running. The bike idled very well, revved up ok, but under any load it struggled. It was running very lean due to the new stainless exhaust system, and spotting the GPZ500 carb setup, I moved the ER's towards it as that bike too has a more free flowing exhaust. It worked, and I've been running the bike up tarmac trails that wind up a local hill. I gave it its first hard pull the other day, and it is very smooth up to 8000rpm where it splutters, but from the overrun pops, it's now too rich. So this will be easily tweaked out. 

 

There was also a little bit of white gunk in the oil, and a sign of coolant escaping near the water pump. A quick research later, and it looks like the mechanical seal has let go, and some in the ER groups report these gaskets are a pain, so I'll be using a very small bead of high temp gasket in combination with a fresh gasket. If it turns out the head gasket isn't sealing, I'll drop the engine and bring it home where I'm nearer shops that can skim the head, and I'll paint the engine. 

 

In the meantime, I've cracked on with small jobs. This weekend I refreshed the front brake with all new rubbers, seals, pistons, and a new stainless brake line. 

 

Corroded, worn, partially seized.

 

This is why I use my dads workshop... Compressed air. Still took over an hour to get one piston out. It needed a rubber mallet to tease it out. 

 

Toast... And the slider was seized as the rubbers had broken, letting the elements in. 

 

Before - New equipment - After. I used a dremel with various steel wire brushes to clean the exterior and all the grime. And a brass wire wheel to clean out the slots for the seals. 

As it was a recent topic. Big can. Tiny amount needed. You just need enough to shine up the seals all over. Same for the pistons, but just their outer sides, not the back face that slots into the bore. The kit came with a small sachet, but I have my own tin. 

When installed and back together, no excess grease, all went together firmly but smoothly. 

The slider has red rubber grease on the metal pins that sit inside the rubber boots. And multi-purpose grease where there's metal to metal sliders. In the pic below you can see where I put a blob as the pad pin was very seized. All loose paint is off too now, I quite like the rustic look... But I'll paint them at a later date. If I don't upgrade to an ER6 brake system. 

Learnt one too many times, check the length before you install the new line... Saves a lot of swearing.

And now it starts, goes quite well, and stops exactly as it should. I've got a new rear drum brake ready to go on. But the current one feels ok, so will get some use out of it first. 

 

Hopefully ready for an MOT in a couple of weeks if I can get back over. But all hinges on the new mechanical seal working. 

[skyrider]

that looks good now,  ps im into that RD400  

[fastbob]

On 25/03/2022 at 06:31, fastbob said:

The crankcase breather should have a pipe about two inches long and about three quarters of an inch in diameter that links it directly to the bottom of the air box . This is a rubbish design that allows the crankcase to fill with fuel in the event that  the fuel tap and float valves fail at the same time . The breather pipe may still be knocking around your work area or sitting on top of the swinging arm . 

I was about to agree with this then I noticed that I wrote it .

[JRH]

The joys of the Kawasaki twin pot sliding callipers. Looks to be the same as used on my GPX750. That was a strip down each year and clean to keep them working smoothly.

[RideWithStyles]

At least they aint the kawasaki tokico 6pots!  They cost more, needed more work , nearly impossible to bleed properly, still half as powerful of a single pot for a cbf125.

[RideWithStyles]

On 30/03/2022 at 15:43, Fozzie said:

 

 

I can only guess at what did it. Is this normal wear? A sign of previous poor lubrication? Or is the clearance too big and its accelerated the wear? This needs to be answered before I go any further. As at the moment, this engine could be a dud. 

 

Any suggestions welcome!

 

Was it only on one lobe? If it was poor lubricant it would have done scratches and scars moving with the rolation of the cam to pretty much most or all but they look more like pitting and chips and many so close together and in the particular direction likely a floating metal particle or who ever got in there before hand chipped them some how and not that long ago.. prized the cam off or left in a box and shit got thrown on top like at a scrappers yard? One of many possibilities.

[Fozzie]

5 hours ago, skyrider said:

that looks good now,  ps im into that RD400  

 

It's getting there, I just need it reliable and riding for a bit so I can begin the scrambler conversion. The RD400 was a barn find my Dad bought and did up, it has a slight patina, but it is absolutely mint mechanically. Soon to get electronic ignition as well. I had a small ride on it over the weekend, and it's a little rocket... Brakes a bit weak mind

 

2 hours ago, JRH said:

The joys of the Kawasaki twin pot sliding callipers. Looks to be the same as used on my GPX750. That was a strip down each year and clean to keep them working smoothly.

 

2 hours ago, RideWithStyles said:

At least they aint the kawasaki tokico 6pots!  They cost more, needed more work , nearly impossible to bleed properly, still half as powerful of a single pot for a cbf125.

I had a set of 6 pots apart earlier this year from a Ninja (might even be in this thread somewhere as I've posted other jobs) and they are evil. I've got the 4 pots on the SV650 and they aren't much better, they'll be stripped down this winter and refreshed. 

 

1 hour ago, RideWithStyles said:

Was it only on one lobe? If it was poor lubricant it would have done scratches and scars moving with the rolation of the cam to pretty much most or all but they look more like pitting and chips and many so close together and in the particular direction likely a floating metal particle or who ever got in there before hand chipped them some how and not that long ago.. prized the cam off or left in a box and shit got thrown on top like at a scrappers yard? One of many possibilities.

 

That whole camshaft was particularly badly pitted. The bike had stood for a while, so I'm guessing repeated dry starts across its life have chipped away at them, or as you say floating chips of metal in the oil. As I took the engine down to bits and split the cases, it became clear that the engine is a Frankenstein of multiple engines. The head on it in particular is a bit battered, and might be beyond what a skim can sort, so there will be a new engine in this bikes future. But for now, it is running using a camshaft I bought from our resident ER5 specialist: @fastbob

[fastbob]

4 hours ago, RideWithStyles said:

At least they aint the kawasaki tokico 6pots!  They cost more, needed more work , nearly impossible to bleed properly, still half as powerful of a single pot for a cbf125.

Nothing wrong with Tokico 6 pots if they are properly maintained . But yes , they are a pain in the arse .

[fastbob]

So you finished it then . Looks great . I've still got mine . Just can't get round to selling it . Somewhere in the back of my mind lurks the crazy notion to go touring the outer Hebrides on it because I don't fancy the idea of taking the precious Harley on the ferries . There's a lot of back to basics fun to be had coaxing the maximum performance from a smaller bike . 

[JRH]

3 hours ago, fastbob said:

Somewhere in the back of my mind lurks the crazy notion to go touring the outer Hebrides on it because I don't fancy the idea of taking the precious Harley on the ferries .

Do it. Had 3 days on South Uist earlier in the year. Unfortunately we were in the car but the roads looked good for biking.

 If you do decide to go and start in Uist use the ferry from Uig to Lochmaddy as this is more reliable than the ferry from Oban and is a much shorter route. There were several bikes on the ferry when we went over and they were well secured. 
we didn’t have time to get to Harris.

[Fozzie]

14 hours ago, fastbob said:

So you finished it then . Looks great . I've still got mine . Just can't get round to selling it . Somewhere in the back of my mind lurks the crazy notion to go touring the outer Hebrides on it because I don't fancy the idea of taking the precious Harley on the ferries . There's a lot of back to basics fun to be had coaxing the maximum performance from a smaller bike . 

 

If that new water pump seal and gasket does the trick, then that's it for the basic resto. Will get an MOT and ride it for a bit. 

 

I will be converting it into a scrambler though I think. I will ride around on it for a bit, and get my 125 project out the door. then come back to it. I'll need the proceeds from the 125 selling as the next phase of work can be eye wateringly expensive (custom seat unit/repainted tank and plastics). Always wanted to do a proper full build. 

[Rob Jarvis]

I’m trying to locate a nut bolt and rubbers for my silencer on my 97 ER5 

Does anyone have one or know where to find them please 

[Tinkicker]

Rubbers. https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=92092-1013&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=92092&_osacat=0

 

Bolt available from your kawasaki dealer.  Part number 920021127

 

Nut. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195514755024?epid=10056443190&hash=item2d859667d0:g:IooAAOSwTzxh~-in&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwPglEqdFUlQ6iRmRuWMzQhiFEs9z7eMaO1Fk%2B3lFqlhJR5JCj7bW4C0ZOi4%2BwL3VBs0wUmMSu9ZKFpvM0Z0Zzet0uYgDe%2B9AgGrIK%2FJHrN5TSZCfIggBY5zuny90Sp%2FGOauVmm3rY62XsqygI1r9Q6dYtC098LSumn60hmR5YZtqPfsjnPbqiF66ko54mTxnsrdDFsPncCVENwRpXVtjuIXCAWmvRcvvSvXZsfaeYlBQQ%2FUQClNBOV7%2F2JIigFqioQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8S6n678Yg

 

took me literally 30 seconds to find this info and invade someone elses thread with it.  Why can' t you find it out for yourself?

Edited November 19, 2023 by Tinkicker

[Brazillian]

Had to create an account just to congratulate you on your efforts, clean job, and overall documentation of the whole journey, forums are a dying concept so it's nice to see new posts with current acitivities, properly described and with images, I'm sure a lot of people stand to benefit from your log of this rebuild on this website, make sure to share the scrambler progress too!

I have an er-5 from 2001 as well, been my daily commuter ever since I had a license, and it is my dream to pull out the engine some day to give it a proper service, at the very least lap the valves, clean thoroughly and paint it completely, but we know it's never as simple as we plan it to be hehe there's always dicoveries to be made and new parts to be ordered.
At this point she's in the garage waiting the end of winter, I have my coolant tubes are leaking so I have to remove, clean, and install new O-rings on those f**kers, will take the opportunity to open the valve cover and gap the valves, then the spring time carb clean & fluids, and it should be ready for this season, that and of course, replace the rear tire and balance the new one, I tried to remove the old tire manually on a vice but the second bead doesn't want to break away, went to bed on Sunday evening with a pulled muscle on my forearm and extremely frustrated lol