Mickly Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 I diagnosed a water leak, changed the water pump as the shaft was worn letting water past the seals. Got all the bits needed & started putting it all together, as the Haynes manual says “ just the reverse of the assembly process” …. Except … to fit the clutch cover you have to hold the gasket in place & align the water pump drive, the gear change shaft, the solid oil bypass pipe & finally the clutch actuation mechanism, been trying for hours without success but think I’ve fond the reason: In this video the centre shaft needs to remain in its starting position to mate with the clutch actuation shaft in the clutch cover - it seems I have a poltergeist that keeps turning it slowly out of position when I’m trying to fit the cover, (which I can’t show you as I can’t upload the .mov file from my I-phone )any ideas? Starts in this position Ends like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beryl Swain Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I have the same bike for my first big bike mine has an issue where it cuts out at low revs so I'll have to tackle that before I can ride her. One guy said it could be an issue with the thermostat...does this make sense to anyone? If so, how do I fix the thermostat or would it need replacing or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 8 hours ago, Beryl Swain said: I have the same bike for my first big bike mine has an issue where it cuts out at low revs so I'll have to tackle that before I can ride her. One guy said it could be an issue with the thermostat...does this make sense to anyone? If so, how do I fix the thermostat or would it need replacing or something? There are several reasons this might happen, but before you start buying & replacing stuff try disconnecting the BMS for 1/2 hour. You should always start the bike in the following way - 1/ ignition on 2/ wait for the red temp light to go out 3/ press the start button Without touching the throttle, apparently if you mess this procedure up the BMS uses the throttle position as the default closed position, disconnecting the BMS resets it. This shows you how: Good luck, let us know how you get on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted April 7 Author Share Posted April 7 (edited) I have a new slightly baffling issue with this bike that some of you might be able to give some guidance on, or take the piss .. it’s fine by me. So the oil pressure light has started flickering when the engine is warm but goes out when I Increase the revs, after a while it stays on at idle. I went to the owners forums and the consensus was a failed oil pressure switch ( a common problem) I removed the switch (B’stard of a job), tested it, seemed fine but I fitted a new one for £5 for purposes of elimination … however the problem still exists and worried that the oil pumps might be knackered I purchased an oil pressure gauge kit which I fitted to the oil pressure switch boss, it would seem that the pumps are fine with a pressure of 45PSI at cold idle & 85PSI at 4500 revs. So the question is.. WTF? Another thing I’ve noticed is that although the oil isn’t contaminated it is very black and it was only changed a couple of hundred miles ago when I fitted a new water pump. Edited April 7 by Mickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the wanderer Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 You can get your oil checked for engine wear if you want. They can give a report as to what is working or not just from an oil sample. Can't remember who or how much though, was it Millers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkicker Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 You need to check pressure at operating temp. Typically, an oil pressure switch is set to operate at 8 - 10 psi. Cold testing tells you nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Davey Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Maybe a split hose that's leaking crank case pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 8 hours ago, Tinkicker said: You need to check pressure at operating temp. Typically, an oil pressure switch is set to operate at 8 - 10 psi. Cold testing tells you nothing. I let it idle until the fan came on and by then the pressure was almost non existent, but the oil pumps can be ruled out as a likely issue right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, Simon Davey said: Maybe a split hose that's leaking crank case pressure? There’s no sign of an oil leak and the oils maintaining it’s level, also I think a split hose would show as low pressure even when cold? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Davey Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 28 minutes ago, Mickly said: There’s no sign of an oil leak and the oils maintaining it’s level, also I think a split hose would show as low pressure even when cold? I was thinking vacuum hose? I don't have a clue though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkicker Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) Sounds like bad pump, worn crank bearings or stuck pressure relief valve. Sometimes motors have a separate pressure valve that opens above a certain pressure to send oil to the oil cooler. If so that could be stuck. First thing to check though is that it is not overfilled with oil. After that, drop the sump and check that the pump pick up tube ( if fitted) is not cracked or loose. Edited April 8 by Tinkicker 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkicker Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) Having reread your earlier post. Assuming the oil pressure problem is a new issue.. "& align the water pump drive, the gear change shaft, the solid oil bypass pipe & finally the clutch actuation mechanism, been trying for hours without success but think I’ve fond the reason:" Having looked at parts drawings for this pipe ( without success) I also note that the crank looks to be a pressed together roller bearing type. So scratch worn crank bearings. A roller bearing crank will tolerate zero oil pressure as long as there is flow. So it is not as dire as you thought. However 45psi at idle cold is not usual for a roller bearing engine engine either. They usually run around 8 psi. As said, if this probem occurred after you had the covers off, it is most likely something you did wrong. Edited April 9 by Tinkicker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 28 minutes ago, Tinkicker said: Having reread your earlier post. Assuming the oil pressure problem is a new issue.. "& align the water pump drive, the gear change shaft, the solid oil bypass pipe & finally the clutch actuation mechanism, been trying for hours without success but think I’ve fond the reason:" Having looked at parts drawings for this pipe ( without success) I also note that the crank looks to be a pressed together roller bearing type. So scratch worn crank bearings. A roller bearing crank will tolerate zero oil pressure as long as there is flow. So it is not as dire as you thought. However 45psi at idle cold is not usual for a roller bearing engine engine either. They usually run around 8 psi. As said, if this probem occurred after you had the covers off, it is most likely something you did wrong. You could be very right, but I’m hoping not - as doing that all again fills me with dread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkicker Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) Most likely scenario if the problem only appeared after you had it apart is as said you made a mistake somewhere. Easily done. I do it and have been a pro technician for 40 years. Assuming you did not nake a mistake.. Since now I actually did a little research and know what a 650gs engine is, instead of trotting out generic advice, we can be a bit more specific. 1. We know it is a roller bearing crank. This will tolerate extremly low oil pressure. Typically roller crank engines run at 8 to 10 psi. A solid crank engine will be around 60 psi. You say you replaced the oil sensor for a fiver. Is it the correct, brand new, genuine BMW part for that specific engine? If not that is almost certainly the problem the pressure rating will be wrong. If you bought the bike secondhand, someone before you may have fitted the wrong part and you just replaced it like for like. A fiver for a genuine BMW oil sensor seems extremely inexpensive. 2. I now know this is a dry sump engine. It has two oil pumps, one gives main pressure and the other is a scavenger that returns oil to the tank. When you look in the tank, can you see oil returning? If so, i doubt your engine will blow up and it is a sensor problem. Does the flow back to the tank increase with rpm? It should. 3. We come back to your oil pressure readings. As said earlier. 45 psi at idle cold seems very high for a roller bearing engine. Do you know the correct spec from the manual? You need reliable info to troubleshoot. Dunno if that engine has a pressure relief valve, but if it does, and the pressure is too high, it may be jammed partially open. Also, does it have the correct oil? My gut though leads me to conclude that you did something wrong and oil is not returning to the tank. This must be sorted and double checked before you blow the engine gaskets and seals. Instrumentation.. Having said that, if your oil gauge kit is a £20 chinese ebay special, throw the gauge in the bin. They are innaccurate and worthless. You need instrumentation you can trust. Anything else will lead you a merry dance. I have seen cheap kits advertised that go up to 500 psi! Since a gauge is most accurate around the mid point of the scale, if you are expecting to see 50 psi on the gauge, buy a quality, oil damped gauge from a reputable manufacturer that is scaled 0- 100 psi. If the oil return pipe is a flexible type and you disturbed it, the internal lining may have collapsed. The oil tank must have return flow and the level should not keep dropping as the engine is running. About as far as I can go.. I have no direct experience if that motor. Edited April 9 by Tinkicker 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 3 hours ago, Tinkicker said: You say you replaced the oil sensor for a fiver. Is it the correct, brand new, genuine BMW part for that specific engine? If not that is almost certainly the problem the pressure rating will be wrong. If you bought the bike secondhand, someone before you may have fitted the wrong part and you just replaced it like for like. A fiver for a genuine BMW oil sensor seems extremely inexpensive. Good point! However I found the BMW part number for the sensor & it’s equivalent OEM part number ( it’s used on a lot of vehicles, not just motorbikes ) and got a NOS part from a guy who was selling off his old stuff after closing his shop down. The part from BMW is £20 so not a big difference & a pretty std BMW mark up. I tested the one that came out & it seemed ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 3 hours ago, Tinkicker said: 2. I now know this is a dry sump engine. It has two oil pumps, one gives main pressure and the other is a scavenger that returns oil to the tank. When you look in the tank, can you see oil returning? If so, i doubt your engine will blow up and it is a sensor problem. Again another good point. I looked in the tank & couldn’t see the oil from the scavenge pipe going into the tank and the oil in the tank doesn’t drop when the engines running, but I removed the scavenge pipe from the tank, cranked the engine over and it spewed out oil, so unless it is blocked in the tank I don’t think this is the problem, although I will remove the tank and ensure it’s all clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 3 hours ago, Tinkicker said: We come back to your oil pressure readings. As said earlier. 45 psi at idle cold seems very high for a roller bearing engine. Do you know the correct spec from the manual? You need reliable info to troubleshoot. These are the figures from the Haynes manual ( warm engine ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 3 hours ago, Tinkicker said: Dunno if that engine has a pressure relief valve, but if it does, and the pressure is too high, it may be jammed partially open. I’m hoping this is the issue. There are 2 ‘check’ valves behind the oil filter that I will have a look at when I drain the oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 3 hours ago, Tinkicker said: Also, does it have the correct oil? Now this is a VERY good question and I can’t remember what the hell I put in & I took all the old oil & bottles to the tip. It should be 15/50 semi synth, I may have put 10/40 semi synth in by mistake. Gonna drain the oil anyway. Would you recommend a flush before refilling properly? If so what make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 Thankyou @Tinkicker for your sage thoughts and advice. Next thing: I let the bike idle for a while then went to drain the oil, I removed the oil tank cap and saw that the oil level had risen considerably, is this a sign that I’ve overfilled it or something else? I’m gonna measure how much came out and compare it to the recommended oil fill amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 50 minutes ago, Mickly said: Thankyou @Tinkicker for your sage thoughts and advice. Next thing: I let the bike idle for a while then went to drain the oil, I removed the oil tank cap and saw that the oil level had risen considerably, is this a sign that I’ve overfilled it or something else? I’m gonna measure how much came out and compare it to the recommended oil fill amount. I’ve measured 3.1 litres of old oil & reckon on another 100mm of spillages & remains left in the container which equals 3.2 litres … Haynes manual says 2 litres then warm up then add another 300mm, so 900mm overfilled Could this be as easy as filling with the right quantity & spec of oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkicker Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, Mickly said: Thankyou @Tinkicker for your sage thoughts and advice. Next thing: I let the bike idle for a while then went to drain the oil, I removed the oil tank cap and saw that the oil level had risen considerably, is this a sign that I’ve overfilled it or something else? I’m gonna measure how much came out and compare it to the recommended oil fill amount. No. Hot oil expands. That is why you always check oil either at running temp or at cold, according to the owners manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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