ST1300 08A L front caliper (again)

[husoi]

Does anyone know of anywhere I can find this kit (17) secondary master cylinder?

 

 

Apparently is part number 45620MCSR01 and has been replaced by part 45620MCSR02 which seems exactly the same.

 

I'm really not in the mood to pay near £100 for it (CMSNL).

Ebay have a entire part (2) second hand for same price. Not sure if the rubber bits are old or new, would be lead to believe they are the old ones.

 

Definitely not paying near £250 for the new one 

[Old-codger]

Have you tried David Silver? and how about giving these people a ring Powerhouse • Powerhouse Automotive

[husoi]

Thank you @Old-codger Unfortunately DS don't have it. Powerhouse, although very helpful don't have it either.

Other UK based places have it but more expensive than CMSNL 

[Old-codger]

Is this any good on Partzilla?? I know its in usa but hopefully shipping aint to bad. Partzilla Part Search

[RideWithStyles]

is there another MC from honda model line up that could be just swapped over?

after all its only a mc not a full job with abs pump and loads of other bs.

really failing that why not an generic aftermarket MC?

[husoi]

2 hours ago, Old-codger said:

Is this any good on Partzilla?? I know its in usa but hopefully shipping aint to bad. Partzilla Part Search

Thank you @Old-codger I'll have a look in the morning 

 

@RideWithStyles unfortunately the secondary MC is unique to the st1300 having 2 different models. First was up to 2008 second from 2008 onwards.

This is fitted on the left front caliper and it's actioned by the pressure from the front caliper onto the fork.

 

I thought the clutch kit would be identical, apparently is different.

Honda being clever and making things hard for everyone

[oldgrump]

Hi @husoi, Fowlers are listing as in stock,  is yours leaking pass the seal's?

 

[husoi]

9 hours ago, oldgrump said:

Hi @husoi, Fowlers are listing as in stock,  is yours leaking pass the seal's?

 

There is no leak.

I open it and give it a good clean but the problem didn't go away.

Rear wheel still stuck 

I can find it on several places, including Honda at Ayr. my issue is spending another £95 

Then £600 on new lines.

Edited June 13, 2024 by husoi

[Simon Davey]

I may be barking up the wrong tree but... 

After replacing all the seals on my calipers, my local mechanic thinks I have a "dragging" caliper. 

He thinks that, because I didn't remove any corrosion from the groove that the seals sit in, the corrosion prevents the seals from sitting snugly and the seals are then tighter on the brake piston than they should be. 

This prevents the piston retracting fully. 

 

Might not be your issue at all. 

 

[husoi]

3 minutes ago, Simon Davey said:

I may be barking up the wrong tree but... 

After replacing all the seals on my calipers, my local mechanic thinks I have a "dragging" caliper. 

He thinks that, because I didn't remove any corrosion from the groove that the seals sit in, the corrosion prevents the seals from sitting snugly and the seals are then tighter on the brake piston than they should be. 

This prevents the piston retracting fully. 

 

Might not be your issue at all. 

 

Doesn't hurt to check before I spend more money on that lady.

Although I have rebuilt all the calipers with new pistons and seals.

Another "issue" would be the break lines which are the original ones. I don't think they will be the problem and I have little appetite to spend £600 on a new set and have to dismantle half of the bike to replace them.

I will do it in the near future but now I want it ready for the MOT.

[RideWithStyles]

10 hours ago, husoi said:

Thank you @Old-codger I'll have a look in the morning 

 

@RideWithStyles unfortunately the secondary MC is unique to the st1300 having 2 different models. First was up to 2008 second from 2008 onwards.

This is fitted on the left front caliper and it's actioned by the pressure from the front caliper onto the fork.

 

I thought the clutch kit would be identical, apparently is different.

Honda being clever and making things hard for everyone

so its the anti dive system to bs if i understand correctly? you dont need that as all it does is push / adds more fluid to the fork valves. blank it off (maybe change the fork oil to a thicker grade if its non adjustable and your abit of a demon) and get a normal MC and pipe it to your caliperz.

[husoi]

Nothing like that @RideWithStyles

That's the front left caliper 

This is the secondary MC 

when the front brake is actioned the caliper moves forward and the cylinder actions the 3rd piston on the rear wheel.

Have nothing to do with the forks

 

 

[RideWithStyles]

i agree that many ideas Honda comes up with are unnecessary Husoi.  

 

sorry i see now i was think like the suzuki jobs.

so its a dual /combi braking, front also primes a single (extra) rear piston for what little/benefit use it REALLY does for the penalty it brings...

depending on your view of how original, usefulness or cost but i still see the same thing, keep the hardware and mounting in place so you still have a front brake but blank it off or loop it back on itself, leave it non operational it not like a new bike with an abs pump that it needs to be mot'd with it.

you still have a rear mc and caliper you could use your foot for the job of a rear brake. 

could be wrong but thats how i see it.

[husoi]

I think I might have found the problem.

Rear MC was only cleaned. Very likely will need to put a new kit.

 

This is the best bleeding container I ever made

The bleeding hose fits perfectly, then leave the house long enough to have plenty vertical length so any bubble goes straight up and no chance of getting back into the caliper.

 

[husoi]

I wonder...

 

A clogged joint or hose? 

have a new disk and pads

wheel was balanced and it's working perfectly

calipers have been replaced with new pistons and seals

 

Only left the clogged joints or hose.

 

that's the rear breaking system dismatnled again...

 

Then we have this:

 

"Rear wheel locks when only the brake lever is applied/Front wheel locks when only the brake pedal is applied (in the case
that all items are normal in "Poor lever/pedal brake performance")
· Improper secondary master cylinder push rod installed length
· Faulty proportional control valve"

 

Edited June 16, 2024 by husoi

[oldgrump]

Hi @husoi, sorry away on holiday so have limited Internet. 

So if you are having problems with rear brakes. 

try finding out which circuit it is. 

i.e i believe you have 2 brake line's to rear caliper?

Push the pistons back in so rear wheel turns. 

Now clamp off the line to the centre piston near caliper. 

Small pair of mole grips if you haven't got a brake clamp. 

Then pump the rear brake lever until the wheel lock's. 

Does it then release???

If it does then try and switch to other line and try again. 

If it lock's then it's probably nothing to do with rear master cylinder .

When you bleed system do you have to do it in order and (bear with me on this) do you have to bleed secondary at a angle,  not as fitted on forks!!!

Hence you may have air trapped!!

But try to figure which system is giving you trouble first.  

[husoi]

Hello @oldgrump

Yep been through all that.

I believe the trouble maker is the rear MC.

The sec MC has been bleed as you say at an angle.

When action the sec MC using a clamp the wheel stops and goes again when released. So I don't believe it's the SMC

It's the rear MC that gets stuck when actioned and only releases the wheel when I open the bleed nip to reduce the pressure.

[husoi]

The 2 outer pistons are linked to the SMC while the middle one is from the rear MC.

Next step before ordering a new repair kit is to check the banjos and hoses from the rear MC to the caliper.

Really hope I don't have to spend 600 quid on a new set of hoses

[oldgrump]

Hi @husoi, OK, try taken out the pads,  and using the rear brake pedal , carefully push out the centre piston abit. 

Remove the master cylinder reservoir cap and carefully push the piston back into caliper,  as you have changed the seal's you should be able to do this with your finger's.

The brake fluid should go back to reservoir. 

If there's resistance and you can't push with finger's try with anythink you use to push back in. 

If again it pushes back and fluid returns to reservoir. 

Then I would probably look at the seal's again in centre piston. 

You can do this quite easily,  I normally push piston back then clamp hose,  pull out piston with bearing puller,  then you don't lose any fluid,  clean seals and caliper,  refit and carefully open bleed nipple while pushing brake lever slowly, that should bleed air out. 

 

Finger's crossed. 

[husoi]

New rear MC arrived.

Time for replacing the parts and hopefully this will solve the problem 

[Simon Davey]

Fingers crossed 

[husoi]

FINALLY!!!!!

 

Replaced the bits on the rear MC.

Bleed the rear brake completely.

Then bleed the distribution valve or whatever the name is.

 

Now I finally have a perfectly working rear brake that doesn't seize the wheel.

Now I can finally finish assembling the whole thing and take it to MOT.

 

 

[Simon Davey]

That's brilliant, we'll done 

[husoi]

Thank you @Angela Collen now I can program my trip to the tmbf rally if it goes ahead

[Ian Frog]

You might want to read @Grumpy Old Git`s last post on that subject !

I am sure a gathering of like minded souls shouldn`t be impossible to organise, especially as a lot of us seem to reside in East Anglia / The Midlands.

Cheers

Ian