Bad CBT experience

[SA1997]

I just wanted to post to see how people feel about my bad experience with my CBT. I am 27 years old and haven't had any experience on geared bikes, but I have ridden bicycles and electric bikes, so I do understand the balance of being on two wheels. I have also held my manual car driving license for almost nine years.

Before even starting the CBT, the instructor asked me what bike I wanted. I said manual because I wanted to learn on a geared bike, as that's what I want to ride afterward. He immediately encouraged me to use an automatic instead, saying that it might not be the best option for me to do the CBT on a manual. I still persisted that I wanted to learn how to ride a geared bike, and he said it was up to me. The other three people on the CBT all chose automatic bikes.

The briefing before was going well, and so was showing the bike controls and moving the bike onto the training course. But as soon as we started with the moving-off section, I was obviously having a harder time than the automatic riders. He then pulled me aside and told me he doesn't usually do this and instructed me to go to the other side of the parking lot to practice. I was then left by myself to practice for about an hour and half with little to no instruction on how I could improve and what the next steps for manoeuvres were. He was constantly with the other three riders and only came to me when the parking lot section was about to finish.

He sent the other riders to get a break. He came up to me and said that I was running out of time and that I had to show him that I was road-safe to be able to do the next part of the CBT. I was told to go around the parking lot, changing gears and keeping in control. I wouldn't say I did amazing, as I was barely given instruction on how to ride. But I managed to go around without a major fault.

When it came to the figure of eight, he gave me no instruction on how to manoeuvre around. I started slow and was able to complete the figure of eight a couple of times, but I was, as per the instructor, using my balance to maneuver the bike and not using the rear brake. He then demonstrated how to do the manoeuvre. I attempted the figure of eight, but as I was focusing on the rear brake, I put my foot down to stop from falling over. He then told me that I was not road-ready and that I would not be doing the on-road part of the CBT.

Before I left, he asked me what my next step would be, and I said that I still want to do my CBT on a manual next time. Again, the instructor said to do the CBT on a automatic, then take lessons on a manual afterward. Am I overreacting in saying this was a bad experience with the CBT? I have read that most people had very helpful and patient instructors. It just seemed that my instructor didn't really want to teach me how to ride a manual bike.

[bonio]

Doesn't sound like a great experience tbh. Seems a bit unfair that the guys on automatics got the attention and you were left to figure it out on your own. For example, it makes no sense to send someone off to do a figure of eight before telling them to use the rear brake - it just sets you you up to get it wrong. It's also unreasonable to expect someone to do the figure of eight right first time (well, first time after being told how to do it). It takes practice; it's not surprising you put your foot down first go as it takes a while to get a feel of how much brake to use and how much throttle.

 

On the scale of bad to good, it's not a really bad, totally woeful experience. But it's bad enough to look around and see if there's a better place. What part of the country are you in? - you might some recommendations. 

[SA1997]

I live in north London so there are plenty of schools, its just finding the right one that can help me learn. 

[bud]

Definitely not a great start. But unfortunately I have heard this before.

He should have spent more time with you going through the basics. It was obvious you would need more instruction than the others.

Instructors are under more pressure now to fit more training into the CBT. You can understand why some take a short cut.

I would probably see if there was another school nearby you could try, like mentioned above.

Someone on here also mentioned before about perhaps booking a couple of hours of one to one training on a geared bike before doing the CBT again.

Don't let it out you off.

[Bender]

Go somewhere else.

[Fiddlesticks]

I did mine on an SV650 (I did have some prior biking experience). The school was happy to push us a bit to find out what we could do. Of course it's easier to get people through the day on an automatic, but in the long run of less benefit to the rider. I'd be looking elsewhere too.

[ChrisBiggsUK]

Seems like a bad experience and a bad instructor to me.

I too have recently done my CBT (though at an older age than you) and I had never ridden or driven before.  When booking, I mentioned my lack of experience and said I would prefer to do it on an automatic as I knew it would be a lot to take on board, but ended up buying a geared bike before the CBT itself, so in the end did it on geared.

I found it difficult to say the least!  It was certainly a lot to take on board and coming from zero road experience to suddenly being in charge of a vehicle was a little overwhelming.  My instructor was very understanding and supportive, constantly giving advice on how to do things the safe way, and certainly didn't rush myself or the young lad I did it with.

We both progressed on to the road ride section, during which I ended up falling off on a roundabout.  Both the young lad and I didn't pass on the day but were told we could go back, at no charge, for another road ride attempt and a bit more experience, and go from there.  Again, they were very supportive and gave lots of advice and guidance.  The young lad passed that time, though I still struggled.

I then went back a third time for some one-on-one tuition and road riding experience and passed with flying colours.  I just needed more time on the bike to get to grips with things.  More instruction.  More time around traffic after 43 years as a pedestrian.  My instructor (and indeed all the lads at the centre) were great every step of the way.  I cannot fault them at all.  I probably would have passed first time on an automatic, but I would have passed and had no idea how to actually ride a bike.  Which would have been dangerous.

Finding the right instructor is vitally important and it seems that you certainly didn't find the right one.  It seems, from your telling, that you got one who simply wanted to get numbers through the door as quickly as possible rather than as safely as possible.  

Take your time, shop around for instructors, don't be afraid to not get everything right first time and most certainly do it on a geared bike if that is what you are getting.  Again, I would have probably passed first time had I done it on a scooter but then wouldn't have had any idea how to actually ride the bike I bought.  Geared is (from my perspective) a lot harder to learn as a complete novice but much more worthwhile.  Chalk this experience up to a bad instructor, move on, find a good one and you'll get there!

[onesea]

On 03/11/2024 at 21:58, SA1997 said:

I live in north London so there are plenty of schools, its just finding the right one that can help me learn. 

I hate to say from a proper forum, but join a local Facebook group. Search it and see which schools are recommended and not recommended.

 

I had a similar experience with my first CBT, the instructor and I clashed.

  

A change of school and another day I walked it.

I came away confident and ready to ride, I haven't stopped.

 

Within 4 months I had a full licence.  I would probably would not have done it so quickly, if it wasn't for that first instructor.

 

Who indicated I didn't have the skills to be on the road ever.

 

[wastedyears1981]

Sounds to me that the instructor just wants an easy cash-cow by churning Automatic Riders through his books and making his bank balance fatter. Rather than spending time with someone showing them how to safely ride a geared bike for the first time.

 

Look elsewhere for a better school....with instructors that are passionate bike riders themselves. Don't let it put you off.... that experience says more about the instructors teaching skills, rather than your riding skills. Keep at it 

[Dombo]

Sounds very much like my experience last year at a large franchise school, two on scooters and me on geared. I’m over twice your age but driven cars for 40 years and ridden road and mountain bikes for similar. One of the scooter pupils was a pizza jockey on his fourth or fifth renewal so aced everything. I was left to my own devices and told at noon to go home as I wouldn’t be road ready in time but to come back at a later date.

I changed schools, went with a local independent instructor, got my CBT, then back to him a year later for my full licence. Much better experience - this instructor had been teaching for almost 30 years, very keen on biking and a natural teacher.

Oddly enough, I have since found it easier to ride a geared bike than scooters as gears, feathering the clutch, dragging the brake etc just seems to give more control, even though I still consider myself a total novice, just without L plates. Oh, and bigger bikes are much easier to ride than little 125s on the road.

 

Edited November 16, 2024 by Dombo
Adding another sentence

[wastedyears1981]

14 hours ago, Dombo said:

Sounds very much like my experience last year at a large franchise school, two on scooters and me on geared. I’m over twice your age but driven cars for 40 years and ridden road and mountain bikes for similar. One of the scooter pupils was a pizza jockey on his fourth or fifth renewal so aced everything. I was left to my own devices and told at noon to go home as I wouldn’t be road ready in time but to come back at a later date.

I changed schools, went with a local independent instructor, got my CBT, then back to him a year later for my full licence. Much better experience - this instructor had been teaching for almost 30 years, very keen on biking and a natural teacher.

Oddly enough, I have since found it easier to ride a geared bike than scooters as gears, feathering the clutch, dragging the brake etc just seems to give more control, even though I still consider myself a total novice, just without L plates. Oh, and bigger bikes are much easier to ride than little 125s on the road.

 

Yup...totally agree on larger engines being easier to ride. 125s feel twitchy and jittery. Got on a 125 a few weeks ago and felt completely unsafe and vulnerable again compared to being on my Tiger 800.

 

However.... With more power, things can go wrong much quicker and with greater consequences.

Edited November 17, 2024 by wastedyears1981

[IndigoJo]

On 17/11/2024 at 00:51, wastedyears1981 said:

Yup...totally agree on larger engines being easier to ride. 125s feel twitchy and jittery. Got on a 125 a few weeks ago and felt completely unsafe and vulnerable again compared to being on my Tiger 800.

 

However.... With more power, things can go wrong much quicker and with greater consequences.

I'm always astonished when I see videos from Australia or the US calling a 400cc bike a "beginner bike". In parts of Australia the NX500 (or its CB predecessor) is learner legal. The training rules here seem designed to benefit trainers, with all the stages and multiple tests per stage, rather than riders.

[IndigoJo]

On 03/11/2024 at 19:25, SA1997 said:

I just wanted to post to see how people feel about my bad experience with my CBT. I am 27 years old and haven't had any experience on geared bikes, but I have ridden bicycles and electric bikes, so I do understand the balance of being on two wheels. I have also held my manual car driving license for almost nine years.

Before even starting the CBT, the instructor asked me what bike I wanted. I said manual because I wanted to learn on a geared bike, as that's what I want to ride afterward. He immediately encouraged me to use an automatic instead, saying that it might not be the best option for me to do the CBT on a manual. I still persisted that I wanted to learn how to ride a geared bike, and he said it was up to me. The other three people on the CBT all chose automatic bikes.

...

 

Before I left, he asked me what my next step would be, and I said that I still want to do my CBT on a manual next time. Again, the instructor said to do the CBT on an automatic, then take lessons on a manual afterward. Am I overreacting in saying this was a bad experience with the CBT? I have read that most people had very helpful and patient instructors. It just seemed that my instructor didn't really want to teach me how to ride a manual bike.

There are some schools (Universal MCT for example) that offer both introductory sessions and one-to-one CBT. The latter costs £450, which is more than double the cost of a normal CBT, but you're getting a teacher to yourself so you won't be accused of holding anyone else up and if you specify manual, they're likely to supply a teacher who knows how to teach manual. It's more than double the cost, but for quadruple the teacher attention. (The UMCT one-to-ones are in Edgware.) If you do the intro session, you might be able to make CBT a formality as you'll know the moves before you go.