Honda CBF125 Scraping Noise

[Fozzie]

Bikermoos CBF is coming closer to the end of its life. Done nearly 20,000 miles which for a little 125 and mostly city miles, is good going.

I'm debating whether I fix it, or just use the chance to change bikes.

First of all was a hilarious weave its developed, swaying side to side down the road, wheel alignment is fine, wheel bearings not so. Easy to replace.

But there's an odd noise, deffo not big end bearing making a "clack clack clack" noise. When the bike is warm, there is a horrible scraping noise. It seemed to be to be brought on by the clutch being engaged. It sounds like a clutch plate is getting warm, and losing its material and making a horrible noise. It's a rapid, drag your nails down the blackboard noise, so obviously something is warped and as it's spinning it's catching.

I'm looking at the clutch area with suspect eyes as the mileage is more than enough to wipe out a 125's clutch, especially with city miles. I namely think it's the plates, possibly the clutch material has come off one of the plates and when it warms up and expands it warps and starts catching on a friction plate.

I'm only going to find out by cracking it open but wondered if anyone had this before and therefore any clues...

Top info for diagnosis:

1. It only does it when warm

2. Seems to start when messing with the clutch

3. Scraping, metal on metal noise

I'm going to trade out the clutch plates, but I'm wondering if people have any ideas before I do.

[RantMachine]

Based on my extensive experience, I'd say it's going to be a large contamination of Paperchase stickers inside the clutch, possibly a trace of some of those glittery things that people throw inside envelopes to make opening birthday cards that bit messier.

[Fozzie]

Christmas tinsel, colourful led lights, and biscuits are likely also involved...

I'd have the engine out and look... But she needs it daily, and while I could get the engine out in less than an hour with some research of the Haynes, the concern is I find a bigger mess than I was expecting and I won't then have the heart to put it back together still broken.

Spose I can "have a look" this weekend and if I start to go "no no nooooo, oh god no" then I should just put it back together and buy a new engine.

[Invisible_Man]

Hey,

20, 000 almost at the end if it life?!?! You've got to be kidding.

We had a 125 that did 46000 and it was still going strong when we sold it!

IM

[Fozzie]

Km's or miles?

And how many 125s ever make it that far

Lifespan to me is the length of time a bike goes reliably without needing big work!

Brake pads, chain and sprockets, tyres, etc are all ok.

Eating clutches and potentially worse is bad news, especially as this CBF is drinking oil and it has no leak

Itso facto, the bikes now in need of some hardcore love!

[Guest]

20k miles = end of life?! ...I'd get my money back

Sounds like you've got a big job on your hands trying to find this one and this goes way beyond my knowledge but you may get some ideas from this site

[Fozzie]

20k miles = end of life?! ...I'd get my money back

Sounds like you've got a big job on your hands trying to find this one and this goes way beyond my knowledge but you may get some ideas from this site

 

For the clutch going, that's fairly expected, the clutch in a 125 is a tiny little budget item. The top end drinking oil though is something that has peeved me a little bit. I would expect 20-30k miles out of a 125 4-stroke before the really big work began like top end refurbs, so for it to go right at the start of that window... Bah!

Cheers for the link!

Temptation is to get it good so no rattles or wobbles, then upgrade it to a CBR125.

[RantMachine]

Is there really much to gain from "upgrading" to a CBR125? Last time I spoke to Moo about riding she still wasn't that keen on Dual Carriageways so unless that's finally been banished I can't see the extra bit of top end being needed a whole lot, would've thought the CBF's tiny extra bit of low down torque and the economic benefits of lower insurance and higher mpg would be more handy

As a side note: I've seen a few sites now that tell cautionary tales of both bikes crapping up their oil strainers alarmingly quickly leading to an oil starved engine. Guessing you've probably given that a clean or replaced it at some point but perhaps it was overlooked at past services, shortening the life of the bike?

http://125ccbikeclub.awardspace.co.uk/images/CBR125_Oil_Strainer.jpg

[Joeman]

Waiting for the women/clutch jokes...

Christmas is coming, treat the old moo to a new bike

[Tango]

The screeching noise when the clutch pulled in or let out??

Could be clutch thrust washer/bearing breaking up......or maybe one of the clutch bolts has come loose........or the clutch basket is worn or loose.....

A bike drinking oil but not dropping it?.......it must be burning it then......smoke from the exhaust? Rings, valve guides, all the usual suspects really......

[Ricky]

My bike is nearly 22k miles, runs mint totally all original

Does burn oil though, oil is free for me so not really in a rush to fix it

[Fozzie]

Is there really much to gain from "upgrading" to a CBR125? Last time I spoke to Moo about riding she still wasn't that keen on Dual Carriageways so unless that's finally been banished I can't see the extra bit of top end being needed a whole lot, would've thought the CBF's tiny extra bit of low down torque and the economic benefits of lower insurance and higher mpg would be more handy

 

After riding the CBF, the big fear with dual carriageways presented itself to me...

Usually when I ride it, I feel like it's a small toy, so I generally do monkey around on it, and its a hoot to ride until you get on a dual carriageway where the soft springs from the 70s make it feel you have no grip, and every car that goes by has a wake of air that is devastating to your desire to go in a straight line

It's actually worrying at speed! So it's not a fear specific to her, it's a limitation of the bike that would scare most newer riders!

CBR125's have 2.5BHP more, tiny yes, but 25% more than the CBF! And as 125's live above 6000rpm most of their lives, the CBF's low end doesn't even get it off the line quicker. Plus the CBR is better sprung and much more stable at speed

I had an old CBR125 which would leave 11BHP bikes like the CBF behind at a jogging pace in each gear. So it seems a sensible option

 

The screeching noise when the clutch pulled in or let out??

Could be clutch thrust washer/bearing breaking up......or maybe one of the clutch bolts has come loose........or the clutch basket is worn or loose.....

A bike drinking oil but not dropping it?.......it must be burning it then......smoke from the exhaust? Rings, valve guides, all the usual suspects really......

 

When the bikes warm, it doesn't do it with the clutch held in, but let it out, it starts and carries on until you pull the clutch again.

It is all the usual suspects, and I'm trying to avoid depriving moo of a bike for a few days or more while I work through them

Hmmmmm

[Fozzie]

Seems to have partly resolved!

I had the clutch apart this evening, took me less than a couple of hours to get the bike drained of oil clutch disassembled, checked and then put together. The strainer was partially blocked but cleaned, and it wasn't metal shards, just some carbon deposits in the oil had been deposited there.

Clutch plates look like they've fairly had it, and the bearings feel ok but I'm suspect of them.

Put it all back together with some fresh oil. Noise came back with a slight twang, it was different, less scrapey and more like an irregular knock or dinging noise. So I jumped on the bike and gave it a work out, hopping on and off the clutch to get heat through it and new oil on it.

This seemed to eradicate the noise, which I think were from the clutch plates. Time will tell if it comes back.

Slight smoke out the exhaust, it's drinking oil.

If the bike doesn't redevelop this noise, I'm just going to do the steering and wheel bearings, tidy it up and get it part exd for a CBR125 or something.

[BikerMooFromMars]

Seems to have partly resolved!

I had the clutch apart this evening, took me less than a couple of hours to get the bike drained of oil clutch disassembled, checked and then put together. The strainer was partially blocked but cleaned, and it wasn't metal shards, just some carbon deposits in the oil had been deposited there.

Clutch plates look like they've fairly had it, and the bearings feel ok but I'm suspect of them.

Put it all back together with some fresh oil. Noise came back with a slight twang, it was different, less scrapey and more like an irregular knock or dinging noise. So I jumped on the bike and gave it a work out, hopping on and off the clutch to get heat through it and new oil on it.

This seemed to eradicate the noise, which I think were from the clutch plates. Time will tell if it comes back.

Slight smoke out the exhaust, it's drinking oil.

If the bike doesn't redevelop this noise, I'm just going to do the steering and wheel bearings, tidy it up and get it part exd for a CBR125 or something.

Fanks Fozzles.

See, no glitter, sticker, confetti or biscuit deposits! I didn't do nuffin!

...the tinsel does look pretty awesome though. Refrained myself from putting on fairy lights at least...

[Fozzie]

Bit of a development...

The bike has been tampered with before, possibly by a previous owner or mechanic it was trusted to.

The clutch is removable once you take out the centrifugal oil filter, it is held in with 3 screws.

I've encountered one of these before and it unscrewed quite easily with a impact driver and some precise shots.

However when I tried with this bike I noticed something, firstly the filter cover had a permanent marker pen writing on it, with some engine type initials, so I've deduced this is because it's a second hand part on the bike. No problem I think.

I look at the gap and there is a paper gasket normally between the faces of the filter lid and the main body and it isn't there... Oh dear.

1 hour later of using the impact driver and more force the screws are basically rounded off, not beyond use but certainly beyond the point normal undoing could get such tight bolts free. This is where it ticks... Some clever clogs hasn't had the gasket and has decided to seal this thing up unimaginably tight. I've tried heat, impact drivers and so on but it won't budge, not one of them.

Basically someones botched job means if I want the clutch off I have to drill out an engine component and I really don't feel comfortable with that as it isn't my bike to f**k up.

Anger was a mild word for the temper tantrum I had in the garage, but after half an hour I was done ranting about "mechanics"

So I've played with what I can, and now set the bike off to keep going until it has well and truly had it. Which is hopefully the rest of the year.

Then I'm going to replace the bike, and pull the engine out and go nuts with it, but until then, what a fooking nightmare.

[RantMachine]

Ask Lou if Ermintrude was ever serviced by a certain place in Cambridge, I can't remember off-hand - but I have my suspicions, given my experiences with bodged servicing...

[Fozzie]

Ask Lou if Ermintrude was ever serviced by a certain place in Cambridge, I can't remember off-hand - but I have my suspicions, given my experiences with bodged servicing...

 

She can't remember as I quizzed her a bit on the subject.

I may have one more attempt but im going to get a small flat blade screw driver, angle it in a good position and begin hammering to get it free.

But I'm having the effort vs cost debate, are there any hidden gremlins is what I'm thinking. It has a second hand part in the engine so what else is wrong is the immediate question and would I aggravate something if I dismantle the bike.

Given I could likely palm it off for £500 to a dealer and just pick up a new CBR125 that would be a suitable option...

[BikerMooFromMars]

It's funny finding posts about your bike you didn't know were still ongoing haha!

Nope, Cambridge Motorcycles never had my bike for any kind of servicing - all I know is GuitarMan (John) who owned Ermintrude before me (she had 2 previous owners) got it serviced elsewhere, could ask him though not really sure what this would achieve. It wasn't him that took her apart previously, I just know he kept up with services to keep her in what he would've hoped was top condition.

Since the oil change she has a lot more punch (not power, but generally just feels a lot smoother/not like she is gonna fall apart). I have got used to the scraping noises, effed steering bearings and fighting with her particularly when doing more delicate movements of the handlebars, particularly when filtering - tho Fozzles will be fixing soon methinks (grateful for all the help he's given me with her!). New brake pads and chain have made a big difference too .

Atm I only use her for commuting, too cold for me to do any more than this anyway. Saving my pennies and hoping to do my test in the future, but so many other things I'd like to save for like an SLR and lenses and possibly a car...I may just keep her til she burns out. Yes, a car - I want something more practical for winters and getting about tbh. A 125 isn't gonna get me far when I have friends and family dotted all over the place, and when we move Oop North, it'll be wetter and colder and I'm likely to need to travel more than my current 4 miles to work!

Will always have Fozzles for pillion rides at least and I hope to always have at least a little bike for fun runs and commuting when it isn't cold...Moo and cold are 2 things that don't go together well at all

[Lumor_uk]

Those 3 screws are a bitch to get out, I don't know why. Even when I've not done them up too tight. There is writing on mine too and marks on the screws it's just from the factory to make sure they've not budged. Have you got the tool to get the clutch out? Where did you get it from? Had an old CG125 with 46k on.

I've just gone around replacing all the sensors/ecus on mine, revving at 4-5k at cold idle. Seem to have sorted it now.

[Lumor_uk]

the screws are £1 each if you have to drill them. I need two, the gasket is £4 from Honda . managed to reuse both when I cleaned my filters couple of days ago.

[Fozzie]

Those 3 screws are a bitch to get out, I don't know why. Even when I've not done them up too tight. There is writing on mine too and marks on the screws it's just from the factory to make sure they've not budged. Have you got the tool to get the clutch out? Where did you get it from? Had an old CG125 with 46k on.

I've just gone around replacing all the sensors/ecus on mine, revving at 4-5k at cold idle. Seem to have sorted it now.

 

I have three blue marks for the screws and on the back someones scruffy writing saying "CBF125M9" in black. So I think it is a 2nd hand part!

I need to go and buy a drill

When you drilled out did you just bore out a small hole all the way through and it became loose enough to work free or was it really wedged in there still?

[Lumor_uk]

yeah factory writing is blue. sorry didn't drill these ones just about managed to get them off by hammering screw driver in then turning. but I need to get two new as they are screwed 2nd time I've cleaned filter and they are always so tight guess it's when engine gets hot they just bind.

I'm guessing previous owner drilled right through and replaced it it's the oil pump you're looking for on eBay good luck

you got a clutch removal tool?

[Fozzie]

Clutch removal tool? Which one?

There's the centrifugal oil filter removal tool which is a castle shaped socket which I have.

The clutch holder I made myself using 2 lengths of metal, 4 sockets of the right size, and some threaded bar with nuts to hold it all together. Apparently a cheap £35 one can be bought off Amazon but this thing cost me £20 in materials and I was able to have the holes pre-drilled.

Plan was to wrap the pegs on the clutch they hold once or twice with electrical tape to avoid marking them and get the breaker bar on the clutch bolt.

SO much effort for a fooking 125

[RantMachine]

Finished fixing my 125 already, clearly everyone should give Honda a miss and buy Chinese

[Fozzie]

Moved the inevitable breakdown by a few days on my 125 already, clearly everyone should give Honda a miss and buy Chinese

 

Let me just fix that...

The honda still runs, it just clearly has a bad clutch plate in there. It's not a great design and even worse it turns out the engine originates from a factory in Taiwan that also shares the name "Kymco" which Honda use with their tight regulations. So it's technically a well made chinese bike, which is why it's broken AND running at the same time!