Joeman Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 Could well be the problem Joe Now what about the oil leak? So heres my findings...This is what the coil packs look like:And this is the coilpack from the dodgy cylinder that just slipped out - no need to pull...The rubber part snapped in two parts, and the electode was not clicked over the top of the plug.Rubber eroded by sparks maybe?it was a real pain getting the broken off big of rubber out from deep down in the cylinder head. had to use a bit of white hooked at the end to pull it out.Also, notice all the oil around the coil pack. Seems the rocker cover is leaking down into the spark plug wells. I suspect its left over from the last time i took it to BMW for them to fix the leaky rocker cover.. very tempted to take it back and tell them to do it again properly!! Oil down in plug wells:I pulled two of the plugs (other two i couldn't get the coil pack off - maybe you do need a special tool after all! ), they looked fine, but covered in oil on the outside. They were very loose. never felt plugs done up that lose before.Anyway, the coil pack is in two bits, but ive put it all back together and pushed it down firmly so the electrode "clicks" over the top of the plug. IF the coilpack is still working, this should at least cure the spark problem.Tomorrow i'll get the exhaust back on and fire it up. if the coil pack is working i should see even temperatures on the header pipes... fingers crossed!! Get rid of that map. There as bad as not havving one on.Leave it as stock or get some dyno time booked in. Yes, default map is useless. its far too rich. the Auto tune module will arrive at the weekend, that will allow me to build my own custom map... Once i know its all running as it should (might need a new coil pack) i'll get some dyno time.. will be interesting to see the difference between a map produced on the dyno compared to the map produced by the AutoTune module.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 and this is why no one works on my bikes! looks like the issue you had with oil leaking is either still there or they haven't cleaned up! I am going with still been there clean it all up put it back together and trade it in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rennie Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 it's not like it's a £500 banger!I'd be livid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeman Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 and this is why no one works on my bikes! looks like the issue you had with oil leaking is either still there or they haven't cleaned up! I am going with still been there clean it all up put it back together and trade it in Yep, it's due a service actually, so I'll put it in and see if they notice... if they don't say anything I'll ask if it's normal to have oil on the plug wells and a snapped off coil.But whilst it's being serviced I'll be chatting to the sales team about ordering a new bike..... great way to get the service department to lose a sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 depending on the service required they may not touch the plugs though joe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissb6 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Looks like the fault is external Joe apart from the fluid leak I suspect the fluid leak is un burnt fuel, Stu l didn't think you could service a BMW without hooking it up to there diagnostic system these days, surely that would pick the ignition problem on the cylinder? Anyway good job your handy Joe, a BMW out of warranty would cost you a clear fortune to put right. Also It could of been worse you could been on the way to the rally and not made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 The only reason to plug it in is for fault codes ecu software updates and service light reset You don't HAVE TO plug it in to service it While they are in at BMW they will plug it in and do any software updates if it needs them and check fault codes but a broken coil may not be picked up if the plug is sparking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Yeah, it'll only give a fault code if the engine management light has come on...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeman Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 No management light. Suspect it's been sparking away, randomly making contact with the top of the plug..Got it all back together tonight and digital thermometer confirms the downpipes are all the same temp.Will uploads some more pics when I'm back in the house... currently gassing myself in the garage with sweet smelling petrol fumes and cloud of smoke from various lubricants burning off the exhaust and motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeman Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 So, all is looking good - engine is running, header pipes are all at the same temp, readings from the OBD2 port show the engine temp was rising steadily, Power commander reading revs and TPS correctly (matches readings from the OBD2 port) - seriously, it's more like debugging software than bike mechanics!!just need to get all the fairings back on and see how she rides. Only thing i'm not sure about is the oil on the downpipes... will it come back?? who knows!! time will tell..Video showing he header temps - the smoke is just all the lubricants burning off the exhaust.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj51878V8ecCylinder shaped object is the BMW OBD2 port, and the rectangular shaped object is the bluetooth OBD2 adapter sending diagnostic data to my phone.cheap ebay special laptop that i keep in the garage for running Power Commander software on:headers all look same blue colour:So looking more likely that i will be able to ride to the rally next week!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 so it seems you need a coil and possibly a replacement rocker cover gasket again! you may as well get a 2016 model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeman Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 so it seems you need a coil and possibly a replacement rocker cover gasket again! you may as well get a 2016 model im going to let BMW discover these faults, and then have them explain how the rubber part of the coil pack could possibly snap off by its self. I reckon it was a heavy handed BMW technician who did it and bunged it all back together hoping it would never be discovered... i really cant see how it could snap its self in half whilst its securely in place over the top of the spark plug!!If i get them grovelling and apologizing, they might give me a better deal on a new bike - not that i can really justify one as i never get time to ride them... Part of me is a bit upset i didnt need to drop the whole motor out - that would be a great experience/challenge on a bike like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhatomfart Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 No management light. Suspect it's been sparking away, randomly making contact with the top of the plug..Got it all back together tonight and digital thermometer confirms the downpipes are all the same temp.Will uploads some more pics when I'm back in the house... currently gassing myself in the garage with sweet smelling petrol fumes and cloud of smoke from various lubricants burning off the exhaust and motor.Hi Joe, have you got a Lambda sensor on your exhaust, if so that should have picked up that the exhaust gases were fuel enriched, academic if no Lambda Sensor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeman Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 No management light. Suspect it's been sparking away, randomly making contact with the top of the plug..Got it all back together tonight and digital thermometer confirms the downpipes are all the same temp.Will uploads some more pics when I'm back in the house... currently gassing myself in the garage with sweet smelling petrol fumes and cloud of smoke from various lubricants burning off the exhaust and motor.Hi Joe, have you got a Lambda sensor on your exhaust, if so that should have picked up that the exhaust gases were fuel enriched, academic if no Lambda Sensor Stock bike has two lambda sensors, but when fitting the power commander you have to remove them else the ECU and power commander will start interfering with each other.The dynojet auto tune model that should arrive Saturday has a wide band sensor that is used to regulate air/fuel ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I have a sensor for testing exhaust pipe temp as well. Mine was dead cheap. Its called my hand. Its amazing how it works as it find dead cylinders just by touch. I would have been checking stuff like the spark first before worrying about blown engines. I always start at the simple and then delve deeper if i have no joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeman Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 I have a sensor for testing exhaust pipe temp as well. Mine was dead cheap. Its called my hand. Its amazing how it works as it find dead cylinders just by touch. I would have been checking stuff like the spark first before worrying about blown engines. I always start at the simple and then delve deeper if i have no joy. Easy to check the spark on old retro bikes, but getting to the plugs on a modern sports bike is a bit of a mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I have a sensor for testing exhaust pipe temp as well. Mine was dead cheap. Its called my hand. Its amazing how it works as it find dead cylinders just by touch. I would have been checking stuff like the spark first before worrying about blown engines. I always start at the simple and then delve deeper if i have no joy. Easy to check the spark on old retro bikes, but getting to the plugs on a modern sports bike is a bit of a mission. Its still the first thing check along with fuel. No spark No fuel No bangs simple. Its not my fault modern cars and bikes are designed to be almost unhome maintainable. I'm amazed the laptop didn't flag up this fault. This is a another reason why I am not to impressed with modern stuff ( as bits of kit they are awesome but the technology is too much now) and will probably never own a modern bike. Too much shit to go wrong and too hard to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeman Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 I have a sensor for testing exhaust pipe temp as well. Mine was dead cheap. Its called my hand. Its amazing how it works as it find dead cylinders just by touch. I would have been checking stuff like the spark first before worrying about blown engines. I always start at the simple and then delve deeper if i have no joy. Easy to check the spark on old retro bikes, but getting to the plugs on a modern sports bike is a bit of a mission. Its still the first thing check along with fuel. No spark No fuel No bangs simple. Its not my fault modern cars and bikes are designed to be almost unhome maintainable. I'm amazed the laptop didn't flag up this fault. This is a another reason why I am not to impressed with modern stuff ( as bits of kit they are awesome but the technology is too much now) and will probably never own a modern bike. Too much shit to go wrong and too hard to work on. The coil was sill working, so it had no fault to report. its just that the rubber part that slips over the top of the plug had snapped off meaning the HT lead was barely touching the top of the plug. the cylinder was running, just not all the time...No easy way to check the fuel either. high pressure fuel system, with two injectors per cylinder. i was suspecting the Power commander might have died preventing the injector opening - again no fault to report as there wasn't a fault. Everyone moans about modern technology, but when modern bikes break, its often the basics that fail. In this case i basically had a broken spark plug cap, and unidentified oil leak which hasn't returned, but was likely oils from failed rocker cover gasket overflowing out of the plug wells. So all this modern technology, and it was old fashioned HT plug and rocker gaskets that failed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Everyone moans about modern technology, but when modern bikes break, its often the basics that fail. In this case i basically had a broken spark plug cap, and unidentified oil leak which hasn't returned, but was likely oils from failed rocker cover gasket overflowing out of the plug wells. So all this modern technology, and it was old fashioned HT plug and rocker gaskets that failed... And that is my point . All this new technology is still tied to using old stuff like HT leads and spark plugs and electrical connectors that fail. Its just there are more and more sensors and shit like that to fail. But given your fault was what you say but its too much trouble to actually get the parts of the ignition or spark plugs out to pysically check then again thats my point. Needing a special tool to remove the coils packs and spark plugs. FFS. My car (2014) went into limp home mode the other year. Turns out after a week in the garage its was a dirty sensor. They cleaned it and its been fine since. I dread to think what that would have cost as they couldn't find the fault and then when they finally found it they were not sure how to fix it. In the end they cleaned the sensor ( as the would have had to pay due to our lease arrangment. But i bet i would have been charged for a new one if I was paying) and put it back. But again a simple sensor was dirty and failed. I am hearing of more and more Triumphs that are failing ( new ones by the way). Ditto some of the horror stories on newish BMW's. The current thinking On new BMW's is make sure you take the extended warrenty out . Which given that they are full of new tech is not good is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 My car (2014) went into limp home mode the other year. Turns out after a week in the garage its was a dirty sensor. They cleaned it and its been fine since. I dread to think what that would have cost as they couldn't find the fault and then when they finally found it they were not sure how to fix it. In the end they cleaned the sensor ( as the would have had to pay due to our lease arrangment. But i bet i would have been charged for a new one if I was paying) and put it back. But again a simple sensor was dirty and failed. It would have cost you nothing! A 2014 car would have still been covered by the warranty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeman Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 You can't halt progress...If you want to produce over 200bhp from a one litre engine whilst still keeping the emissions low and a good level of fuel economy and reliability , you need to use modern technology and sophisticated electronics.With increased power comes increased complexity. If there was a simple way to do it, it would have been done many years ago.And for every story people tell about modern electronics failing, I bet there are a million stories about old items failing. I've been stranded by broken points, coil failure, flywheel magnets breaking, battery dieing, cam chain breaking, head gasket blowing, and many other traditional items, but to date I've never been let down by anything you would class as high tech electronic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhatomfart Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 You can't halt progress...If you want to produce over 200bhp from a one litre engine whilst still keeping the emissions low and a good level of fuel economy and reliability , you need to use modern technology and sophisticated electronics.With increased power comes increased complexity. If there was a simple way to do it, it would have been done many years ago.And for every story people tell about modern electronics failing, I bet there are a million stories about old items failing. I've been stranded by broken points, coil failure, flywheel magnets breaking, battery dieing, cam chain breaking, head gasket blowing, and many other traditional items, but to date I've never been let down by anything you would class as high tech electronic.Hi Joe, agree with you there,you can't halt progress as we've seen with driverless cars, even some trains on closed circuits are automatic, I'm stuck in the past a bit myself but thats more of a styling thing , I much prefer the old to the new, but at the same time I like to keep up with all the new electronics that are introduced over the years, two of my bibles are by Tracey Martin , which I always refer to , I am in awe at the thought that goes into the running of an engine, and always try to keep up with operation of sensors and how they interact with each other, I like to surprise people when I actually know what their taking about when it comes from an old git like me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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