Future of diesel vehicles??

[tuktuk]

Just been to see about selling mine on the way home, its lost 3.5k in value in 7 month Do you think the value of diesels has dropped in general with this recent talk?

Just spent a fortune on servicing the thing! Cars are right money pits, might go back to cycling!

 

Well that depends on what car it is and year?

If you bought it new its probably about right

 

2012 c250 coupe amg edition. Price must have dropped through the floor! Having a bus pass might be the way forward at this rate.

[Stu]

2012 c250 coupe amg edition. Price must have dropped through the floor! Having a bus pass might be the way forward at this rate.

 

I wouldn't have expected that to lose that much in 7 months!

[Joeman]

mercs dont hold their value well.. the diesel witch-hunt wont have helped!

[tuktuk]

2k a year is what i normally expect to lose on a car, this takes the piss. Going to look tomorrow to see if its just the diesels or if petrol versions have gone down as much too.

Only car ive ever had a good deal on was an nhs lease car, all others have cost me a fortune.

[old-timer]

I wonder how our old European neighbours are dealing with this, as most cars in France, Germany, Netherlands, etc are diesel.....

 

I don't know about other countries in Europe, but in NL and Germany some cities have banned older diesels (pre 2002 I think) from city centers.

So, even if you are willing to pay more, you simply cannot get in...

I know that the German city of Dortmund is one, because a couple I know that lives in the city center sold their 'classic' diesel camper and bought a newer VW camper because of the ban.

In NL, in cities like Amsterdam, Utrecht , Den Haag and such, older diesels are banned from city centers too.

So like my friends in Dortmund, people who live there and have a nice classic diesel, cannot park their cars by their houses or even in their garages, they are simply not allowed to drive there. (And we all wonder, how many of them can there be...?).

But what really pi... puts me off is that in Utrecht, MOTORBIKES of 15 years and older are banned from the center as well.

Never mind if they have a catalytic converter (like my BMW F650 GS does) or not.

As my bike is from 2002, I am simply not allowed there anymore.

But my daughter lives there... (well not in the center, but still... !).

Some changes in vehicle taxes in the period 2017 - 2020 have been announced.

Road taxes will be reduced by 2% for all vehicles.

Road taxes for vehicles (not only diesels) that are not 'environment friendly' wil be raised as of 2019, no percentages mentioned so far.

By the way, in NL vehicles are taxed by their weight.

Apart from VAT, in NL we have an additional "purchase tax" for new vehicles of 25%.

This is uniquely for Holland, other countries around us don't have it.

That is why cars and motorbikes in NL are (much) more expensive than for instance in Germany or Belgium and many of the Dutch who live near the border buy their vehicles overthere and import them themselves.

This tax will be reduced by 14,7 % before 2020 (big deal !).

I think that because of the different rules in different countries, it is hard to compare.

Some countries have road tax in the price of fuel, so you pay in relation to your usage of roads.

Other counties have (France), or are going to have (Germany!) toll for the use of their highways and/or bridges and tunnels (Stockholm, Sweden - Oslo, Norway).

Fact is that whatever they come up with, we pay !

[Six30]

Just been to see about selling mine on the way home, its lost 3.5k in value in 7 month Do you think the value of diesels has dropped in general with this recent talk?

Just spent a fortune on servicing the thing! Cars are right money pits, might go back to cycling!

 

Who did you go see about selling it ?

[Stu]

Apart from VAT, in NL we have an additional "purchase tax" for new vehicles of 25%.

This is uniquely for Holland, other countries around us don't have it.

That is why cars and motorbikes in NL are (much) more expensive than for instance in Germany or Belgium and many of the Dutch who live near the border buy their vehicles overthere and import them themselves.

This tax will be reduced by 14,7 % before 2020 (big deal !).

 

A mate lives in NL and it was cheaper for him to come to the UK buy a bike and take it back!

He was telling us that this purchase tax is a killer!

[old-timer]

Well, I can imagine your mate buying his bike in the UK and avoiding high NL tax.

Only for us it is not so practical because there is always the problem of shipping.

Plus, you need to change the headlight unit to a 'continental' one otherwise the bike won't be approved.

By the way, in 2014 they changed the definition of oldtimer or 'classic vehicle'.

Up until that moment, any vehicle over 25 years old was cosidered an oldtimer. And for oldtimers you did not need to pay roadtax.

Then they decided, since lifespan of cars had stretched quite a bit these last years, to change it to: '40 years and older'.

Now there was a kind of 'transition rule' for those who already owned a classic of 28 to 39 years or more, they 'only' needed to pay 25% of the normal rate.

But that did not apply to diesels... They had to pay the full amount.

So suddenly peole who owned say a 35 years old big Mercedes or camper van diesel, had to pay roadtax.

And, as I explained before, cars (and bikes) are taxed by their weight, they had to pay sometimes thousands of Euro's a year for these heavy beasts...

So many had to quit their hobby all together and sell their cars for less than they payed for it, mostly to car lovers in Germany where rules are different.

In this topic the word 'fair' came up.

Well, as far as covernment rules and taxes are concerned, 'fair' only exists in the word 'fairy tale'...

And as you can see, our UK and NL governments are just as bad as the next one...

But... don't worry about me..

This Old-timer is well over 40 !

[Guest]

2k a year is what i normally expect to lose on a car, this takes the piss. Going to look tomorrow to see if its just the diesels or if petrol versions have gone down as much too.

Only car ive ever had a good deal on was an nhs lease car, all others have cost me a fortune.

 

You only lose £2k a year on average, you need to have kept it a few years to get an average. The 3.5k you are seeing is pretty normal.

Buy the car and take it back to sell it again the following day and you'll loose £1.5 - 2k, because that was the dealers mark up.

You lost another £1k in normal depreciation.

Your lucky only to have lost £500 - £1k as a result of the diesel issue and the fact new shape C class have started to come into the second-hand market, so your car is no longer a current model.

[tuktuk]

Just been to see about selling mine on the way home, its lost 3.5k in value in 7 month Do you think the value of diesels has dropped in general with this recent talk?

Just spent a fortune on servicing the thing! Cars are right money pits, might go back to cycling!

 

Who did you go see about selling it ?

 

The first car garage i passed on the way home just to get an idea of whats what, although none of the main guys were avaliable so was just an estimate based on this newer guys experiance.

[tuktuk]

2k a year is what i normally expect to lose on a car, this takes the piss. Going to look tomorrow to see if its just the diesels or if petrol versions have gone down as much too.

Only car ive ever had a good deal on was an nhs lease car, all others have cost me a fortune.

 

You only lose £2k a year on average, you need to have kept it a few years to get an average. The 3.5k you are seeing is pretty normal.

Buy the car and take it back to sell it again the following day and you'll loose £1.5 - 2k, because that was the dealers mark up.

You lost another £1k in normal depreciation.

Your lucky only to have lost £500 - £1k as a result of the diesel issue and the fact new shape C class have started to come into the second-hand market, so your car is no longer a current model.

 

I always knew would lose money from the off, was just shocked at how much. I put through a we buy any car type thing last night and that was 1k higher than the dealer had estimated, so thats not as much of a sting.

Question is, what is the best option from here? Do i stick with this and see how the market goes considering this diesel speculation or do i cut my losses now and go back to a small petrol.

[Joeman]

Its mostly going to hit Londoners when the mayor introduces the new diesel tax. So unless you travel into London I wouldn't worry too much.

With the majority of cars on the road being diesel they UK.gov will have to be very careful how they handle the rest of the country of they want to avoid civil war!!

[Six30]

Just been to see about selling mine on the way home, its lost 3.5k in value in 7 month Do you think the value of diesels has dropped in general with this recent talk?

Just spent a fortune on servicing the thing! Cars are right money pits, might go back to cycling!

 

Who did you go see about selling it ?

 

The first car garage i passed on the way home just to get an idea of whats what, although none of the main guys were avaliable so was just an estimate based on this newer guys experiance.

 

You could go buy a car now , take it to another garage up the road half hour later and he would bid you 2 to 3 grand less than what you just paid, your only going to get trade prices from garages.

[Guest]

2k a year is what i normally expect to lose on a car, this takes the piss. Going to look tomorrow to see if its just the diesels or if petrol versions have gone down as much too.

Only car ive ever had a good deal on was an nhs lease car, all others have cost me a fortune.

 

You only lose £2k a year on average, you need to have kept it a few years to get an average. The 3.5k you are seeing is pretty normal.

Buy the car and take it back to sell it again the following day and you'll loose £1.5 - 2k, because that was the dealers mark up.

You lost another £1k in normal depreciation.

Your lucky only to have lost £500 - £1k as a result of the diesel issue and the fact new shape C class have started to come into the second-hand market, so your car is no longer a current model.

 

I always knew would lose money from the off, was just shocked at how much. I put through a we buy any car type thing last night and that was 1k higher than the dealer had estimated, so thats not as much of a sting.

Question is, what is the best option from here? Do i stick with this and see how the market goes considering this diesel speculation or do i cut my losses now and go back to a small petrol.

 

Stick with it, the longer you keep it the less you'll loose per year and IMO a Merc is a vehicle that doesn't age much if you look after it. Diesel is still more economical than a petrol, especially if you need / want something the size of a C class with that kind of performance. Tax is still currently on co2 emissions, so your diesel is still lower, and if the government do start penalizing diesel it will probably be through congestion charging in cities, in which case use the park and ride. You are still winning IMO and you are driving a very nice car!

[Guest]

Here's mine, I bought it 2 years old with 22,000 on the clock, it has a private plate so nobody knows it's age, and until you read the odometer you wouldn't know it's not brand new because it is immaculate, not a mark on it. It's the same chassis as yours but has the E Class exterior grafted on and all the E Class interior, technology, etc, so it's basically a E250 luxury and looks, on a C250 platform, the engines are the same 204bhp units in both C and E class anyway.

I buy all my cars cash about 1 to 2 years old and keep them for 5 to 7 years. It's the cheapest way by far.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/20160305_123239_zpse6np7sba.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/20160305_123302_zps8a0rsbbc.jpg

[Joeman]

With so many cars on PCP deals with guaranteed future values, i wonder if we have a timebomb waiting to happen...

Imagine a situation where the car is worthless because it's a diesel but the dealer sold it on PCP and so has to honour the GFV.

[Liveware Problem]

The government encouraged diesel because of the lower CO2 emissions, but they forgot about all the other nasty stuff like particulates and Nitrogen dioxide which are now poisoning us all especially in places like London.. I'll be glad to see the back of diesel.

[MrBrightside]

Here's mine, I bought it 2 years old with 22,000 on the clock, it has a private plate so nobody knows it's age, and until you read the odometer you wouldn't know it's not brand new because it is immaculate, not a mark on it. It's the same chassis as yours but has the E Class exterior grafted on and all the E Class interior, technology, etc, so it's basically a E250 luxury and looks, on a C250 platform, the engines are the same 204bhp units in both C and E class anyway.

I buy all my cars cash about 1 to 2 years old and keep them for 5 to 7 years. It's the cheapest way by far.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/20160305_123239_zpse6np7sba.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/20160305_123302_zps8a0rsbbc.jpg

 

Nice car

Just bought the same, but an E350 convertible, Palladium Silver. Stunning drive and those intelligent LED lights blew me away. The amount of kit is staggering and I'm still finding new gadgets on a daily basis! And it's proper quick.

[Guest]

With so many cars on PCP deals with guaranteed future values, i wonder if we have a timebomb waiting to happen...

Imagine a situation where the car is worthless because it's a diesel but the dealer sold it on PCP and so has to honour the GFV.

 

There was a recent newspaper article about that, I'll see if I can find it. The only way I'd buy a vehicle on PCP is if it was too new to get a 1 or 2 year old one, in that case the repayments are now so close to the actual depreciation over the first three years, that it makes no sense to take your own money out the bank.

[Guest]

Here's mine, I bought it 2 years old with 22,000 on the clock, it has a private plate so nobody knows it's age, and until you read the odometer you wouldn't know it's not brand new because it is immaculate, not a mark on it. It's the same chassis as yours but has the E Class exterior grafted on and all the E Class interior, technology, etc, so it's basically a E250 luxury and looks, on a C250 platform, the engines are the same 204bhp units in both C and E class anyway.

I buy all my cars cash about 1 to 2 years old and keep them for 5 to 7 years. It's the cheapest way by far.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/20160305_123239_zpse6np7sba.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/20160305_123302_zps8a0rsbbc.jpg

 

Nice car

Just bought the same, but an E350 convertible, Palladium Silver. Stunning drive and those intelligent LED lights blew me away. The amount of kit is staggering and I'm still finding new gadgets on a daily basis! And it's proper quick.

 

Yeah, they are very nice. I have the premium plus package so theres no end of technology, adaptive cruise control, etc, etc. The six cylinder engine in yours is lovely too, I just couldn't justify the extra cash when I wasn't bothered about the extra performance. For £300 you can chip the 250 to the same performance as a stock 350. We'll see I might do it, but TBH I really don't need to, any overtake I cant do with 204 bhp, I probably shouldnt be doing at all, and having ridden 1000cc motorbikes for years fast cars don't excite me.

[Grumpy Old Git]

What's everyone's thoughts??

 

I'm thinking of having a beer when I get home.

[Six30]

What's everyone's thoughts??

 

I'm thinking of having a beer when I get home.

 

I got a tortoise head so thinking of having a dump .

[mailee66]

The government encouraged diesel because of the lower CO2 emissions, but they forgot about all the other nasty stuff like particulates and Nitrogen dioxide which are now poisoning us all especially in places like London.. I'll be glad to see the back of diesel.

I don't think you will see that any time soon, all of our goods are transported by diesel trucks and has already been noted big diesel ships. Just imagine what would happen if they banned all diesels all of our goods would rocket in cost due to transporting them with petrol! Can't see them doing a scrappage scheme for trucks and ships.

[tuktuk]

My current motivation is getting on the property ladder, ive been amazingly stupid in having cash tied up in the fireblade and have a bit of equity on the car too.

Whether its best to sell the bike (thought of that makes me shudder) to pay off the car thus minimising my monthly outgoings. Or sell the car and buy a run about until im on the property ladder and financially secure...

[Arwen]

It does annoy me that car drivers are being targeted by all the diesel hate, when trucks and buses and such are not. They are the heavy users of diesel, yet are not having to pay nearly as much as I think they should. Just walking around town, where cars are mostly banned due to bus only routes, you can feel the pollution in the air.

Out of curiosity I checked autotrader for my car. I bought it around this time last year for £8k with 12k miles on it.

These two are the cheapest I can find that have the closest mileage, with the same trim, engine and similar extras. One for £7.8k and one for £8k

So yea, I think I picked well for a change! Over the year it's cost me £140 for tax and £90 for a new coil. It is a petrol however