Brake disks

[husoi]

Last MOT got advisory front brake disks starting to have rust pitting on them.

Yesterday while doing some unrelated work in the garage noticed the disks are past their best. 

 

This for the Pan European.

So...

New front disks + pads

New rear disk + pads

 

Before ordering will need to check the brake fluid and see if calippers need any work done or just cleaned.

 

Likely a £1000 job  in parts only

[Fozzie]

I had a quick look on Wemoto, and it's looking like £775 would get you all of the parts, but this includes full rebuild kits for the calipers. If the pistons are in good shape, they will be reuseable, but that could really see your costs sky rocket if they have corrosion that isn't budging without the lightest of polishes. 

 

Are the discs actually at their limit? Or just looking sorry due to rust? I've always tried to space out the jobs on brakes due to costs, I replace the seals every 2nd set of pads and replace any pistons. New discs is always a painful expenditure.

You can cut the cost of the discs in half by using pattern parts, rather than EBC. People generally have a reasonable experiences with them, but there's a lot of wariness around them. Some reports years back of them warping very quickly for example, but I assume if they are still being sold, that they've done something to iron out the kinks. 

[husoi]

54 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

I had a quick look on Wemoto, and it's looking like £775 would get you all of the parts, but this includes full rebuild kits for the calipers. If the pistons are in good shape, they will be reuseable, but that could really see your costs sky rocket if they have corrosion that isn't budging without the lightest of polishes. 

 

Are the discs actually at their limit? Or just looking sorry due to rust? I've always tried to space out the jobs on brakes due to costs, I replace the seals every 2nd set of pads and replace any pistons. New discs is always a painful expenditure.

You can cut the cost of the discs in half by using pattern parts, rather than EBC. People generally have a reasonable experiences with them, but there's a lot of wariness around them. Some reports years back of them warping very quickly for example, but I assume if they are still being sold, that they've done something to iron out the kinks. 

Not a good idea cheaper quicker wearing disks on a 300kg bike...

 

I don't like to go back to the brakes and have to do all the assembling twice.

even worse, you shouldn't reuse pads on new disks

 

Unfortunately they are beyond repair, did that last year  

 

Sportsbikeshop not only helps @Stu with the forum but are slightly cheaper for the disk and pads.

The repair kits I can get from CMSNL or wemoto separately.

Better do all front and rear at once and do a complete overhaul.

Do the job once and complete and spend more time on the bike instead under 

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, husoi said:

Not a good idea cheaper quicker wearing disks on a 300kg bike...

 

I don't like to go back to the brakes and have to do all the assembling twice.

even worse, you shouldn't reuse pads on new disks

 

Unfortunately they are beyond repair, did that last year  

 

Sportsbikeshop not only helps @Stu with the forum but are slightly cheaper for the disk and pads.

The repair kits I can get from CMSNL or wemoto separately.

Better do all front and rear at once and do a complete overhaul.

Do the job once and complete and spend more time on the bike instead under 

 

Just make sure you use the link on the forum otherwise we get nothing

[Fozzie]

48 minutes ago, husoi said:

Not a good idea cheaper quicker wearing disks on a 300kg bike...

 

I don't like to go back to the brakes and have to do all the assembling twice.

even worse, you shouldn't reuse pads on new disks

 

Unfortunately they are beyond repair, did that last year  

 

Sportsbikeshop not only helps @Stu with the forum but are slightly cheaper for the disk and pads.

The repair kits I can get from CMSNL or wemoto separately.

Better do all front and rear at once and do a complete overhaul.

Do the job once and complete and spend more time on the bike instead under 

 

It's a lot of bike to slow down, but like I said, it's reports online and might not reflect the truth. They might be just as good, and I've found them on about half of the project bikes I've owned and seemed fine, but I'm not going to stand in the way of a nice little earner for the forum

It's a pain for it to hit all at once, but like you say it is under the bike only once. I could never afford to do the lot at once, so I used to stagger it so I would replace the seals (and any buggered pistons) with a set of new pads, and then replace the discs with the next set of pads. 

 

One last note you might have already looked at, but I'd change the mounting bolts too. It's a nightmare when one of those rounds off, I usually start by taking a blowtorch to them and letting them cool down naturally. 

 

[husoi]

Pan's are magnificent beats but as temperamental as my ex 

 

Even tyres are a delicate matter.

Only thing the breaks are likely to keep are the brake lines because they are a pain to replace.

Even the brake fluid can't be replaced the normal way because of the main pump and modulators.

A proper pain

 

Will be replacing all the bolts and even the bleeders. Hence being around 1k bill.

[Fozzie]

I forgot, this is the combined system

 

My old Blackbirds had these, and it was a nightmare. Had to bleed the two nipples per caliper in the right order, and that didn't stop air bubbles forming in the master cylinders that were local to the calipers. You had to unbolt it and move it around to try and get any bubbles to shift otherwise you forever had a spongey lever. I eventually converted it into a conventional system, but you have to be careful as some MOT testers will fail a combined braking system that doesn't behave as specified, even if the conventional setup is fine. 

Fortunately, the Blackbird didn't have a note against it on the system. The tester said I was very lucky, as I'd been daft and not checked this first. 

[oldgrump]

The VFR800 has a combined linked system, when I brought my first VFR I wasn't a fan of them, then after the first year and 15000 miles I got use to them.

 

I now find them easy to do, last year I had the centre back piston start sticking, so just cleaned it up and pushed it back in, clamped the brake line off, took piston and seals out, new ones in and let gravity bleed the system.

 

All done in 30mins, and now after 2 VFR's and nearly 200,000miles, only ever changed one rear disc, 99000miles, current Vfr still on original disc at 123,000miles and counting.

 

In fact still on most things original.

 

 

[husoi]

The VFR system is a piece of cake compared to the Pan 

 

Did all the cleaning on system last year, including removing the rust pitting from the front disks.

The rear one is still okay but needs the pistons replaced on all 3 calipers.

 

Decided to start disassembling everything for all 3 wheels and make a list of what needs replaced.

Will stay clear of the lines. Too old for that 

 

That should teach me to stay indoors when it's pishing down. Having said that, that's 340 days a year in Scotland...

 

[oldgrump]

Hi @husoi, yep they're knackered, been sitting around by the look of it, you really don't want to go to EBC disc, because they don't like sitting around a lot, mate has a set on his second bike and they rust up, and need to be scrubbed in every time he goes out.

 

Did look at BIKE TORQUE RACING, they do replacement BREMBO disc, but yours never came up.

 

There is a company in Portsmouth BIKEMOTO LTD that have a Brand new set of Genuine disc at £185 each part no 45220MCSG01,  45120MCSG01, Phone no 02392698254.

 

if that helps. Just put part no in Google and it should come up.

[husoi]

I'll be fitting the SS disks instead the Standard ones to prevent the rusting.

Need to keep in mind the current disks aren't OEM and probably not even EBC.

 

The main problem is arriving home late and not being bothered to clean the bike before leaving it for days.

 

Expensive lesson I know.

 

These 

 

Instead of these

[husoi]

Wee update.

 

Basket in sportsbikeshop sitting at over £610 and wemoto at over £220 

Parts include:

brake disks (3)

brake pads (3set)

caliper repair kit (front and rear)

pads retaining pins (3)

DOT4 fluid

Still need to remove rear wheel before ordering parts.

More parts to add. a full set of banjo washers.

[husoi]

Yes @janinej

most of us do our own maintenance and repairs. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, husoi said:

Yes @janinej

most of us do our own maintenance and repairs. 

I think I know what a brake disc is but everything else you might as well have been talking another language

[RideWithStyles]

Must admit that gif is amusing.

 

Don't get discouraged Janinej, we all learn and keep learning.

if there is anything you don't know or understand just ask, we like to pay it forward and we dont bite...well most don't

Edited October 20, 2023 by RideWithStyles

[S-Westerly]

On 20/10/2023 at 02:43, husoi said:

Yes @janinej

most of us do our own maintenance and repairs. 

Speak for yourself my good man. My excuse is I don't have a garage but personally I really don't like spannering. I have a perfectly good son in law for that.

[husoi]

That's orders placed.

 

Won't mention how much the full set is costing...

Unless I can get a crowdfunding  

Items to arrive hopefully 1st Nov or there about.

Pics of the worn bits posted tomorrow.

[megaross]

On 07/08/2023 at 11:20, husoi said:

Before ordering will need to check the brake fluid and see if calippers need any work done or just cleaned.

Just curious what you mean by this?

If your fluid is low it's usually going to mean your pads are low - pistons further out = fluid sat further down the system. It's pretty rare fluid leaks without you noticing immediately that there's something wrong.

 

If it's +2 years old then it's due changing anyway, fit the new discs and pads first though. That's where the level at max should be.

 

Discs is always a pricy one. Not worth skimping though. Anything worth fitting will set you back a hazy weekend in Amsterdam if not a week in a four star all inclusive.

 

Worth considering if you don't already have braided lines whether the rubbers are due replacement - 5 years is about what you get from a rubber line before they start degrading and most manuals specify them as a service item based on time. Usually your disc change is a good time to inspect and evaluate your brake system and whether anything else is getting worn out.

[husoi]

@megaross

No way in hell I'm spending another 700 quid in the lines when I'm really close already to 1k

The lines look okay and will change them maybe next year.

 

My comment was even before checking if the brakes were working or not.

It is now redundant.

I've ordered the piston kits for both front and back. New disk and pads.

Plus all the small bits that goes with it.

Today manager to remove the rear disk.

Images in next comment

[husoi]

 

front disks.

 

Rear

there ia always one...

 

Then, I used a wee bit of brute force.

 

 

Taadaa

 

Clean as a whistle

 

Glad I ordered the pistons kits

 

 

Next, cleaning the wheels and get a new exhaust clamp. Had to cut it off.

Remove the pistons and seals ready for new ones.

Clean the garage floor...

[RideWithStyles]

clean discs right up and make a coster or man cave ornament out of them but Youll be probably be glad to see the back of that lot.

 good call on the pistons, in guessing the far left caliper was the worst one?

did you get replacement nipple bleeds for them too?

 

heat along with penetrant spray can work wonders with bolts like that, but bet it would be a sod.

 

[husoi]

The kits from wemoto have the nipples and all the runner bits.

 

I'll just put them in the bin. The whole house is the man cave

Don't fancy that kind of ornament in the garage.

If anyone wants them. Just let me know and they can be collected free of charge

[megaross]

£700 on lines?

 

Try £100 for a set of venhills, if that. Single most significant upgrade you can do for brakes - you could spend £1000 on the latest discs, pads and butler to squeeze the lever and barely notice but replace old rubber lines with braided and my f**k will you ever notice.

 

Make sure you get the brass beard maker on that mating surface btw. And clean your shorts young man, do 15 situps, stop giving me the finger etc.

[RideWithStyles]

Reason If you look at post 6 youll see the diagram thats not quite all of it but keeping the system in place thats alot of hoses and joints!
Even if you want /manage to bypass some of that (various options) its still a good amount and would to be custom made depending on whats still in there or needs replacing.

Edited October 25, 2023 by RideWithStyles

[megaross]

Fair enough, be a job for crimp your own then I imagine.

 

Worth keeping on the todo list mind