Bandit 600 03 MK2 - non starter

[Elr1991]

So not sure if this is being posted in the right place but here I go .... 

 

Suzuki bandit mk2 2003 

 

Bought a month ago rode home 70 miles spot on couple weeks later took it out and just bogged out and died and wouldn't turn over again 

 

RaC said ignition coils had died,  not sure if both can die as I've nit heard of that 

 

So back off holiday yesterday 

 

Coils replaced , spark plugs changed,  oil filter and oil all changed to bike spec , battery fully charged 

 

Go to start the bike and nothing , just turns over and over and over , spark plugs are sparking fine , 

 

Curious if anyone has come across this issue on a bandit or any other bike 

 

I'm going to assume it could be something fuel related or carb being blocked but thought I'd ask before I start taking carbs off 

 

Appreciate any help or advice or newbie comments lol

[RideWithStyles]

No alarm or immobilisation fitted to it?

if your assured the true firing electrics are sound then the only other are fuel or safety/sensors that are telling it not to.

[Elr1991]

No alarm or immobiliser , I've had all the leads out and tested with a spark plug to check for sparks and are all firing 

 

When you say safety sensor , what kind of thing are we talking? Would that link back to the ecu? 

 

Maybe also a silly question, if I take the carbs off and clean them do they need rebalanced or can they go straight back on ? Never balanced them before but I'd be willing to give it a go once I bought the stuff to do it 

[husoi]

If you completely disassemble the carbs they will need tuned.

Although that's a fairly straightforward process.

If dual carbs then you need to add sync them 

[Nick the wanderer]

Hi, before you strip the carbs I'd advise checking a couple of the basics, like are you even getting fuel to the carbs? Check the fuel tap is working etc. I think there are drain screws underneath the carbs , try cracking one of those open to see if the fuel is flowing. I know it sounds stupid but have you got plenty of fuel, you've not gone onto reserve or anything daft like that. On mine the fuel tap has to be on prime to get fuel started etc. Good luck.

[Elr1991]

1 hour ago, husoi said:

If you completely disassemble the carbs they will need tuned.

Although that's a fairly straightforward process.

If dual carbs then you need to add sync them 

So it has 4 carbs , I'm not stranger to taking them apart but I've just never balanced on but if it's pretty easy I'll buy the tool , will always come in handy 

[Elr1991]

Feel seems to be clming out the tap fine , has plenty of fuel , but debating emtying the tank and filling with E5 as not sure what the last owner was using, will also check the drain screws to ! Thanks 

[Elr1991]

So I have had chance this morning to take another look , bike seems to start when cold start and sprayed into the air box, , so I took off the fuel pump seems OK as far as I can tell all lines into the carb are clear , but it didnt seem to be sucking fuel into the carbs , any ideas on what to check or what to do , not sure how these old fuel pumps work as there isn't a fuel to check like modern ones 

[husoi]

The easiest way is to take the fuel intake from the carb and plug the pump to a 12v supply.

It should start pumping fuel.

 

Regarding the carbs, syncing 4 is only a couple more operations than twin carbs as I have in the shadow.

Plenty of info on yt for you to have a look.

Perfectionists will tell you to get a vacuum gauge for it.

Yes it's the best way, not so sure if worth the cost of a good quality vacuum gauge for the carbs unless you have several ones where you can use it.

[Elr1991]

This could be me being stupid,  there doskt appear to be 12v to my pump I assumed was gravity fed 

[Tinkicker]

It will most likely only supply 12v when the engine is turning.  My VFR needs to see an output from the crank sensor before it will switch on the pump.

Edited May 26, 2024 by Tinkicker

[Phil1]

Well you've ascertained a few things..... 

 

If it'll start with easy start, then most likely you've got compression & air.

 

You've already got a spark.

 

You just need to work out the fueling. 

 

All bikes I've ever known will prime the fuel pump when you turn it on, that's the noise they make when you turn the ignition on and will last a 2-3 seconds, if it's not making that noise then you've found the culprit. 

[Elr1991]

So yeah I don't hear a noise when turning the bike on ie priming the fuel , everything online just says gravity fed into the carbs , so unless my fuel taps are blocked with kack , I'm lost lol but I need time to remove fuel tap to double check this 

[Tinkicker]

I am completely lost.  You mention fuel pumps and then mention the book says gravity feed to the carbs.  Looking back at your original post, you say Suzuki bandit mk 2, 2003.  No mention of engine size or anything else.

How can we be expected to help if you are so reticent with absolutely required info.  We do not even know what size your engine is.

 

Sorry. I am done.

[RideWithStyles]

poor tink... heart goes out to you!

 

we all try to help the less inform with as little help from said little information new member single posters) at times of frustration that is totally lost on those that have no idea that different techs from eras and manufacturers are different.

people that help for free with no benefit to them when asked for help with no or little help but then degrade.

go either use the internets mixed bag of shiterry to filter through or a pay garage in the hope that know something for a fix at a price.

 

only other piece of info ill say its as you say its a gravity feed or as a more modern term a "vacuum pump" not a electrical pump hence whay you here FOOK all when "priming", hence why phil has only known the noise..that all some have ever known is a electrical pump.

if the diaphragm or pipes are degraded that can have great impact on fuel input.

i leave it as that.

 

Edited May 27, 2024 by RideWithStyles

[Nick the wanderer]

He does say it's a 600, it says it in the title.  It has carbs not fuel injection, no fuel pump, no clicking. The fuel won't feed itself it needs pulling through with CV carbs. The fuel tap should have a 'prime' position, switch it back to 'on' when running.

 

[Stu]

Check to see if you have fuel to the carbs be removing the feed pipe at the closest point to the carbs if you have then crack the screws on the float bowls to check for fuel 

 

you could have blocked jets or floats in the carbs I suspect you will be stripping them for a clean 

[Tinkicker]

7 hours ago, Nick the wanderer said:

He does say it's a 600, it says it in the title.  It has carbs not fuel injection, no fuel pump, no clicking. The fuel won't feed itself it needs pulling through with CV carbs. The fuel tap should have a 'prime' position, switch it back to 'on' when running.

 

Perhaps I was a little ungenerous.  I suspected we were being taken for fools esp after he apparently has enough knowledge to change other parts of the bike as detailed.

 

It would have been nice to know that it was a simple vacuum operated fuel tap...  I dunno how he managed to "remove" a non existent fuel pump though. 

 

Anyways.  Pull off fuel hose from tap to carb at tap end.  Place tap on PRI or prime.

If fuel comes out, it is not a problem in the tank or tap.  Reconnect hose.

Pull hose from carb inlet end.  Turn fuel on prime.  If fuel comes gushing out of the end, it is not a blocked hose or fuel filter if fitted.  I dunno if yours has a filter but if it has, change it "just because".

Undo a float bowl drain screw and drain the bowl.  Turn fuel on prime. If fuel starts to resume pouring out the float drain tube, there is no blockage in the fuel manifold between the carbs.

Replace the fuel which if old has gone bad.  Remove the plugs and clean them of excess "fuel" so you know they are able to give a good spark.

 

Rejoice in the thrum of your 600.  Put the fuel tap to the on position.  If bike cuts out again a few miniutes later, you either have a vacuum leak between the carb the vac line is connected to and the tap, or the tap diaphragm itself is faulty

 

If no fuel comes out the carb overflow on prime, you will have to strip the carbs.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2024 by Tinkicker

[Mickly]

1 hour ago, Tinkicker said:

Rejoice in the thrum of your 600.  Put the fuel tap to the on position.  If bike cuts out again a few miniutes later, you either have a vacuum leak between the carb the vac line is connected to and the tap, or the tap diaphragm itself is faulty

Also your tank breather might be blocked

[Elr1991]

Apologise for any confusion on my post , I going off what I see online so some things I've said could be wrong ie the fuel pump , as the pic I've attached is what I was talking about but I think I've just confused people

[Elr1991]

But appreciate everyone's advice will try and hopefully be back on the road soon enough

[Tinkicker]

1 hour ago, Elr1991 said:

Apologise for any confusion on my post , I going off what I see online so some things I've said could be wrong ie the fuel pump , as the pic I've attached is what I was talking about but I think I've just confused people

Thats a PAIR valve. It is not a fuel pump.  It pumps air into the exhaust headers to burn off any excess hydrocarbons.

[Elr1991]

So , after many hours of trying all the suggestions , fuel pipe off stick the prime fuel comes gushing out , carbs checked no blocked jets ( very very clean inside surprisingly) made sure all vaccum lines where back where I took them off ( can feel them pulsing when bike trys to start ) 

 

But still , non starter when connected to fuel ( old fuel out new fuel in ) 

 

So I'm guessing maybe a tap rebuild ? As not sure how thr insides work of a fuel tap so not sure how they could go wrong 

 

 

[Tinkicker]

You changed the coils.  Are you absolutely certain you have got the HT leads going to the correct cylinders?

[Elr1991]

So I did them one at a time new coils , left coil going to 1 and 4 other coil 2 and 3 , all still strong sparks