Looking forward to seeing the Chinese bikes.

[Throttled]

I am going to the Scottish Motorbike Show tomorrow and the most interesting bikes that will be on show, are Chinese. Some pretend not to be Chinese, like Morbidelli, but they are now part of the Keeway group. I have been watching reviews of the Morbidelli MBP C1002V cruiser and Voge Rally 300 and they are universally positive. We bought an MG3 Hybrid last year and it is well made, keenly priced, interestingly quirky, and so far reliable. It looks like the bikes are heading that way as well. Buying an established European brand and using its styling and sourcing parts there, has brought Chinese brands on, leaps and bounds. The entire Benelli range looks stunning.

 

It is not all good, I test rode a CFMoto 800MT and hated its KTM sourced engine. The fuelling was awful, as was the noise. It was the Chinese parts of the bike, that were the best. Get a better engine and it would be an excellent bike. The progress, since the Lifan 125 I rode during my lessons, is amazing. It will be interesting to see if the Keeway and Hanway 125s are better made now.

 

I would be amazed if my next bike was not Chinese, with styling and price the biggest winning factors. The only issue is of course long term reliability, but if build quality is an indicator, then that looks positive as well.

 

 

[Fiddlesticks]

The new Voge adv bikes look crazy well specc'd. Could be interesting.

[Throttled]

My local dealer has become part of the MotoGB group, who sell a whole range of Chinese brands, along with others such as Kawasaki, KTM, Yamaha and Moto Guzzi. Considering how brands now cross over, with many Japanese bikes made in China and Morbidelli using parts made in Spain ans spares coming from Italy, what constitutes a Chinese bike is very European. I think that is going to be the secret to their success, make good bikes and undercut the established Japanese, European and US brands, rather than appeal to bargain buckets sales.

[Capt Sisko]

For political, environmental and ethical reasons I try to avoid buying Chinese whenever I can. I know it's impossible to avoid that completely, but I’ll do my bit where I can. YMMV. 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

3 hours ago, Capt Sisko said:

For political, environmental and ethical reasons I try to avoid buying Chinese whenever I can. I know it's impossible to avoid that completely, but I’ll do my bit where I can. YMMV. 

Agreed.

 

[Mawsley]

For political, environmental and ethical reasons I try to avoid buying anything that doesn't have a V-twin whenever I can.

[S-Westerly]

10 hours ago, Capt Sisko said:

For political, environmental and ethical reasons I try to avoid buying Chinese whenever I can. I know it's impossible to avoid that completely, but I’ll do my bit where I can. YMMV. 

I'm with you on that one. Will never buy Chinese if there's an alternative. 

[Throttled]

How much Chinese would you accept? The bike that caught my eye is the Morbidelli C1002V.

 

 

It is an Italian brand, resurrected by Keeway, who also resurrected Benelli. The C1002V has German tyres, Japanese suspension, German wiring loom and ABS, Spanish brakes and a search online finds that spare parts come from Italy, but where there are made is not clear. The HQ and design studio is in Bologna. According to the website, "Morbidelli is a division of MotoGB", a UK company that supplies parts and bikes to dealers across the country. 

 

I get the ethics, but would that stop you buying an Indian manufactured Triumph, which has a RRP far lower than anything else in their range, because of cheap Indian labour? How protective are Indian labour laws? 

 

Motorbikes are international brands, with only H-D and Ducati coming to mind, as makers who are pretty much entirely based in one country, with ownership in that country as well. Everything else sources parts from and has ownership links with other countries.

[Throttled]

This is the most bonkers bike at the show;

 

 

 

It has 77hp inline 4 cylinder engine and a 310/35-18 rear tyre.

[RideWithStyles]

9 minutes ago, Throttled said:

How much Chinese would you accept? The bike that caught my eye is the Morbidelli C1002V.

 

 

It is an Italian brand, resurrected by Keeway, who also resurrected Benelli. The C1002V has German tyres, Japanese suspension, German wiring loom and ABS, Spanish brakes and a search online finds that spare parts come from Italy, but where there are made is not clear. The HQ and design studio is in Bologna. According to the website, "Morbidelli is a division of MotoGB", a UK company that supplies parts and bikes to dealers across the country. 

 

I get the ethics, but would that stop you buying an Indian manufactured Triumph, which has a RRP far lower than anything else in their range, because of cheap Indian labour? How protective are Indian labour laws? 

 

Motorbikes are international brands, with only H-D and Ducati coming to mind, as makers who are pretty much entirely based in one country, with ownership in that country as well. Everything else sources parts from and has ownership links with other countries.

Keeway didn’t resurrect benelli, Keeway is a brand name under ZQM, both Keeway and benelli is part of the geely parent group. 

[Throttled]

From Wikipedia

 

"Since 1999, Qianjiang has marketed motorcycles outside China under the Keeway brand. The company acquired the Benelli brand in 2005 and debuted the MBP Moto brand at the 2022 EICMA motorcycle show in Milan, Italy. With the purchase of the Morbidelli brand in 2024, MBP Moto became Morbidelli MBP."

 

It looks like the Chinese are buying companies that are better at design and some manufacturing than they are, creating multi-nationals. There was no doubt that the build quality of the bikes on display, Keeway, Vogue and if you regard Morbidelli and Benelli as Chinese, have improved dramatically.

[S-Westerly]

Still no. And that is one plug ugly bike imo. 

[Throttled]

10 hours ago, S-Westerly said:

Still no. And that is one plug ugly bike imo. 

 

MotoGB, who supply Benelli and Morbidelli, are also now the Moto Guzzi suppliers. Add in Aprillia and Lambretta and they have the Italian market pretty much sown up.

 

[S-Westerly]

Suppliers of what? Engines, frames, wheels etc are still made in Mandello in Italy. From MotoGB's own website they are an importer of motorbikes and don't actually make anything. Claim to be British and on UK gov data are recorded as being "an importer and distributor of two wheeler products and accessories and parts." Nothing to do with making Chinese bikes.

[RideWithStyles]

MotoGb are the distributors/importers not the owners.

Edited March 10 by RideWithStyles
Autocorrect

[Old-codger]

The problem you have is down the line with rapid model changes and trying to get spare parts for say a 4/5 year old bike. The Chinese have a bad reputation for not making spares or keeping stock for older models. So lets say they sell 100 of those cruisers in the uk do you think it keep stock for warranty/ repairs in the future. Just look at the car industry is having with older chinese MG cars, it is reported that cars are having to be scraped/ written off due to lack of structural parts from the maker. Then there is the the secondhand market I wonder what the resale value of that cruiser would be once its a week old, just look at the smaller cc chinese bikes secondhand you can hardly give them away. 

Sorry but its a NO from me.

[RideWithStyles]

2 hours ago, Old-codger said:

The problem you have is down the line with rapid model changes and trying to get spare parts for say a 4/5 year old bike. The Chinese have a bad reputation for not making spares or keeping stock for older models. So lets say they sell 100 of those cruisers in the uk do you think it keep stock for warranty/ repairs in the future. Just look at the car industry is having with older chinese MG cars, it is reported that cars are having to be scraped/ written off due to lack of structural parts from the maker. Then there is the the secondhand market I wonder what the resale value of that cruiser would be once its a week old, just look at the smaller cc chinese bikes secondhand you can hardly give them away. 

Sorry but its a NO from me.

OC is correct , so the bike situation will be even worse and that’s with one of the better manufacturers and there European brand ties.

[Throttled]

4 hours ago, S-Westerly said:

Suppliers of what? Engines, frames, wheels etc are still made in Mandello in Italy. From MotoGB's own website they are an importer of motorbikes and don't actually make anything. Claim to be British and on UK gov data are recorded as being "an importer and distributor of two wheeler products and accessories and parts." Nothing to do with making Chinese bikes.

 

My local dealer described MotoGB as their supplies for bikes and parts. I presumed that to mean they import, rather than make and they now have a large dealer network, which my local dealer has joined. I know the owners well enough that they told me they were signing a deal that would increase the range of bikes they have to sell. It looks like lots of small deals have been rationalised into one big one, as they already sold the likes of Royal Enfield and Keeway.

 

Business is not my world and it looks awfully complicated who owns what!

[Throttled]

4 hours ago, Old-codger said:

The problem you have is down the line with rapid model changes and trying to get spare parts for say a 4/5 year old bike. The Chinese have a bad reputation for not making spares or keeping stock for older models. So lets say they sell 100 of those cruisers in the uk do you think it keep stock for warranty/ repairs in the future. Just look at the car industry is having with older chinese MG cars, it is reported that cars are having to be scraped/ written off due to lack of structural parts from the maker. Then there is the the secondhand market I wonder what the resale value of that cruiser would be once its a week old, just look at the smaller cc chinese bikes secondhand you can hardly give them away. 

Sorry but its a NO from me.

 

For me, the positives outweigh the negatives. Build quality has leaped forward, which will help residuals. The prices massively undercut the opposition, which makes Japanese and European bikes look overpriced, which will hit their residuals. What the Chinese are doing makes sense. Their own existing brands remain the bargain basement bikes, like Keeway. Then buy pretty much defunct, obscure European brands like Benelli, Morbidelli and FB Mondial, use their design expertise and image and produce more expensive bikes. Benelli fits mid range, with many 500cc bikes and Morbidelli get the 1000cc engines. Morbidelli becomes like Lexus or DS and the top end of the brand. The Chinese are copying what others have done, that worked. A European design studio, with parts sourced from all over the world and Chinese build and pricing and you get this amazing looking bike for £5699

 

[ChrisBiggsUK]

Setting aside China related political views, I was chatting to a dealer recently over coffee, and the topic of Chinese bikes came up.  I should stress, he wasn't trying to sell me anything, we were just randomly chatting about stuff over coffee when the topic of Chinese bikes came up.  Anyway, he said that the reputation around Chinese bikes may have been warranted at first, but that over time, in his opinion, the quality has gotten significantly better and that the Chinese bike industry is, again in his opinion, really maturing and that given the sheer number of Chinese bikes being sold globally he doesn't see there being a problem, in a few years time, if things keep on going as they are, with a shortage of parts.  I don't know one way or another really.  I would be curious to know whether there was a similar feeling when Japanese bikes first came on the market?  Were they viewed disfavourably at first?  What about when Japanese bikes became a settled norm, and they then moved production to, in my bikes case, Brazil?  Was there a negative view about Brazil building bikes and a subsequent drop in quality?

As you all know, I'm still new to all this so I don't have any real firmly held views or opinions.  All I know is that I'm quite happy with my Brazillian built Japanese bike and am open to (somewhere down the line) any bike from anywhere provided it works, is simple to fix, and isn't going to cost me an arm, a leg and my childs organs on the black market to source a spare part should something fail.

 

[bud]

On 09/03/2025 at 11:09, Throttled said:

How much Chinese would you accept? The bike that caught my eye is the Morbidelli C1002V.

 

 

Motorbikes are international brands, with only H-D and Ducati coming to mind, as makers who are pretty much entirely based in one country, with ownership in that country as well. Everything else sources parts from and has ownership links with other countries.

Harley Davidson built the street 750, 500 in Bawal, India.

Though it was never a good seller here.

 

The thing that would put me off buying a Chinese bike is the parts availability after a few years.  It's still pretty unproven at the moment.

I know the CF moto side by side have not got a very good reputation for reliability.  Though they have been building those for years.

[Throttled]

6 hours ago, ChrisBiggsUK said:

...  I would be curious to know whether there was a similar feeling when Japanese bikes first came on the market?  Were they viewed disfavourably at first?  ....
 

 

Yes. My father remembers that. The British brands dominated and did not think they were a threat, in part because of tariffs making them more expensive. Chinese bikes are starting out cheaper, rather than more expensive, so they do not have that hurdle to get over.

 

[Capt Sisko]

1 hour ago, Throttled said:

Yes. My father remembers that. The British brands dominated and did not think they were a threat, in part because of tariffs making them more expensive. Chinese bikes are starting out cheaper, rather than more expensive, so they do not have that hurdle to get over.

True, but British bikes of the era were old designs, unreliable and this years 'new' model was exactly the same as the old model, but with a chrome trim or it was now available in blue. The Jap stuff was a breath of fresh air and in many cases the performance mind blowing. The Chinese aren’t up against slow, dated models that leaked oil and ridden by stereotypes ‘rockers’, they’re up against modern & desirable bikes. The only advantage the Chinese have is cost.

[Throttled]

I have gone and ordered one of the Chinese bikes. In China it is the Gaokin Thor. Elsewhere in the east it is the Keeway C1002V, but by the time it gets to Europe it is the Morbidelli MBP C1002V, Morbidelli being a defunct Italian racing manufacturer. It is now part of the Benelli, Keeway group and it appears from prices and engine size, Morbidelli will sit at the top end. First Chinese bike to be sold in Europe with a 1 litre engine. There are quite a few reviews on YouTube and all are positive. I am not worried about parts as the bike sold as a Thor in China is identical to the one in Europe, including they both use Metzeler tyres. Gaokin make the engine, frame and panels, Japanese and European makers do the rest.

 

[JohnJive650]

I'll stick to Japanese bikes. 

I want to limit my contributions to the Chinese arms fund