Pre CBT training

[AndyAlfa]

I started a CBT and left the course at lunchtime a few years ago because it was fairly obvious to me I was going to be a danger on the road section. 

 

Other than that time I’ve never ridden a motorbike - or scooter. I’m old and grumpy and all my life it seems to take me longer than other people to learn certain practical skills. I get there in the end - I play the guitar reasonably well these day, built my own house and used to race a Caterham - it just took longer than others for the basic co-ordination to sink in. 
 

While I absolutely understand the need to demonstrate slow tight bike control, I could do with a day or two on a bike on my own or one 2 one just going round and round or a couple of hundred yards up and down a wide private  road between 5 - 20mph until changing gear and using a hand and a foot to brake comes naturally. 
 

Does anyone know any where in the U.K. I can go and just ride slowly up and down on a school’s 125 until it feels natural. Not a CBT - pre CBT - I am semi retired so time and money isn’t a concern. 

Edited May 5 by AndyAlfa
Typo

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I suspect you're not the only person to have this issue. Have you tried asking at a local training centre if they could accommodate you?

 

 

[AndyAlfa]

Hey thanks for noting I may not be alone. At least it makes me feel a bit better.

 

My local training centre just quote CBT - I did ask them but they just push back saying with CBT is easy - I imagine the facility they do have which is quite small  is used for CBT and other training so they can’t then have one bike just going round and round. However I emailed a number of centres further afield but they didn’t respond or offered CBT only and I know some of them have quite a lot of tarmac they can use. 

Edited May 5 by AndyAlfa

[Old and Withered]

As long  as it's off road there are no laws applying so it doesn't have to be a 125 or anything else. If you just want to learn the mechanics of riding a geared motorcycle maybe contact a few off road experience centres. Or if you know anyone with a geared bike whether it's a sports moped or an old dirt bike in a field. A lot of us probably learnt that way as kids. One of the places I used to go was a showground. They had asphalt roads and junctions to practise on. I'm sure if you asked them and explained they would let you ride around for a couple of hours. Not sure where you are but places like the bath and west showground, Kent county showground etc. Another option is private industrial estates. It is surprising how many of them there are and they are normally quiet on a Sunday or on the evenings.

 

You referred to yourself as old and grumpy, so I assume you passed your car test before 2001 (check that date first) so you don't need a CBT to use your full entitlement to ride a moped without a CBT anyway. If you could borrow a moped for couple of hours, find some quiet roads and get a bit of confidence on that it may help your progression a bit.

 

Finally I would say don't be told what's best for you. You're the best person to determine that. Take everything at a pace you're comfortable with in a timescale that suits you. If you don't like what they are telling you go somewhere else.

 

All the best and really hope to see pictures of you on your Panigale soon.

Edited May 5 by Old and Withered

[bonio]

3 hours ago, Old and Withered said:

You referred to yourself as old and grumpy, so I assume you passed your car test before 2001 (check that date first) so you don't need a CBT to use your full entitlement to ride a moped without a CBT anyway. If you could borrow a moped for couple of hours, find some quiet roads and get a bit of confidence on that it may help your progression a bit.

This is a good point. Or just buy a moped, stick the L plates on and off you go. You can choose the times and places you go out on the road yourself. Then take the CBT when you think you're ready.

I commuted to work for a year on a moped before I did the CBT. Like you, I'm slow to learn things that required co-ordination, and I think I'd have found it all too much to learn on a single day, if I'd started from zero.

[Capt Sisko]

14 hours ago, Old and Withered said:

As long  as it's off road there are no laws applying.

14 hours ago, Old and Withered said:

Another option is private industrial estates. It is surprising how many of them there are and they are normally quiet on a Sunday or on the evenings.

If you do this just be careful about what constitutes public access for these 'private' places. If it's got a gate on and you've got permission that's fine, it's 'off road'. However, just as you can be done for drink driving on a pub car park, traffic laws still apply to private grounds where the area has public access.

 

Good luck.

[Old and Withered]

6 hours ago, Capt Sisko said:

If you do this just be careful about what constitutes public access for these 'private' places. If it's got a gate on and you've got permission that's fine, it's 'off road'. However, just as you can be done for drink driving on a pub car park, traffic laws still apply to private grounds where the area has public access.

 

Good luck.

Sorry I forgot to add. Never learn to drive a bike drunk in a pub car park. FFS Nobody is going to give 2 poo poos about someone learning to ride a bike on a private industrial estate out of hours. Wheelie training, drifting or drag racing maybe. Sorry for crediting the OP with a bit of common sense. 

[RideWithStyles]

Old and what someone done with naive doesn’t quite cut it these days.

 

Well actually OAW they do. A lot of business have online cameras, and if the owners/management think something is up (like scoping or thinking of crashing into there premises), could phone plods to see about it. yes it’s still a public place.

 

now the the thing I see a problem as I saw the post, is you haven’t actually completed the cbt?
You can’t legally ride on the bike on the road yourself without an instructor and insurance (also counts as going to and from you choice or area to test yourself) without the cbt related to the bike class (which allows use to ride by yourself) and your insurance (your normal car insurance will not cover this btw) will assume the same if you’ve signed yourself up. So if you get caught you are in trouble.

 

if time and money is no concern id just stick with a freindly and open minded training place, it will be fine, they can just get you to learn in the cage/yard while nobody else is in there. 

Edited May 8 by RideWithStyles

[CJFargo]

I'm in the exact same position. Just last weekend I tried a practice lesson but was stopped and told I was too nervous (see my post elsewhere). Of course I'm bloody nervous. I'm doing something I've never done before but how am I supposed to get better and get confident if you don't let me practice in my own time???

 

Anyway, it could be worth speaking to a few instructors, explaining your situation and telling them precisely what you want from a lesson. It's no skin off their chin if they take your money to let you practice but, if they insist that it has to be a CBT, at least that's good experience too. Any time you can spend in the saddle is a learning opportunity.  I think there is more pressure when people say "Passing your CBT is easy - it's not really a test so you can't fail", like the instructor is obligated to pass you just for turning up and then you feel like the worst failure in the world if you don't walk away with that piece of paper.

 

Everyone learns at their own pace. I'm trying to teach myself guitar as well and I just practice what I can when I can. I get better slowly but thank God there's nobody judging me because I would spend the rest of my life in the triangle section with the other tone-deaf kids. Give up if it stops being fun or stops being cool, but don't give up just because someone made you believe you can't do it like I almost did.

[ChrisBiggsUK]

17 hours ago, CJFargo said:

"Passing your CBT is easy - it's not really a test so you can't fail", like the instructor is obligated to pass you just for turning up and then you feel like the worst failure in the world if you don't walk away with that piece of paper.

 

Everyone learns at their own pace. 

^^

I 'failed' at my first two attempts, but then passed with flying colours on my third.  As my instructor said, even when I came off on a roundabout on my first attempt, I just needed more time on the bike.  More time to get to grips with things.  More time to not only learn the basics of the bike, but also how to get from a to be safely.  He worked with me and managed to get me over the line in my own time and, truthfully, I feel like a much better (and more valid) rider for him having done that.  A good instructor wants to work with you to help you pass and be safe not just for yourself but for other road users.  A good instructor will not rush you.  A good instructor will give you the time and attention you need.  Yes, it may cost a little more in the long run, but better to fail a hundred times and learn from those failings and become a better and safer rider as a result, than to have a bad instructor who passes you just for the sake of it and who then lets you out on the road unsupervised where you can be a danger to yourself and everyone around you.

Any good instructor will be more than willing to give you all the time and training you need.  Not only are you a paying customer, after all, but a good riding instructor will be passionate about riding and will want there to be more riders out there on the road who are also passionate about riding.

You'll get there in your own time.  And you'll get there safely.

[billysugger]

After the fiasco over my licence I had to do CBT mods1+2 to get back on my 250.

On the CBT, after all the classroom stuff we went through the basics in the car park before going on the road. The instructor taking the bike group had me and one other. After the manoeuvres session he spoke to me, saying he good see I was experienced, but the other guy had never ridden a motorbike before so would need lots of attention out on the road, but didn't need to do much with me,so did I mind just tagging along whilst he dealt with the other chap. I said I was OK with that , so we went out and I just pootled along behind the instructor, until he told me to make progress and wait at a roadside snack joint until he turned up.

I just went for it, just to see what the little Suzuki could do, though it wasn't much as it was a school bike and pretty much knackered with brakes that would have been crap on a pushbike 

[AndyAlfa]

Thanks everyone. 
 

Never ridden a motorbike before other than the failed CBT. Until going into semi retirement I drove up to 50k pa to see clients, my daily driver is a fairly powerful sports car and I’ve 3 classic cars.

 

I actually used to fly gliders but that isn’t as daunting as a motorcycle as a joystick trim and rudder are fairly intuitive and for quite a long time you obviously fly with two pilots and dual controls - tandem motorcycle anyone?

 

I found somewhere that will do a full day 1:1. They still want to call it a CBT but reluctantly concede I would be allowed to go at my own pace. 
 

I have thought about it some more. What’s really causing my questions is I have not ridden a push bike much since I passed my driving test 40 years ago. I have a pushbike which I use with the kids every year or so. I don’t know anyone with a motorcycle. What is bothering is the idea of doing figure of 8s on a postage stamp and then going at what? 30mph on a road with cars and trucks without ever having been into third gear on a bike before. 

 

Even on a pushbike you change gear with your hand and obviously no clutch. And on a pushbike age 16 we would ride on the pavement, down steps, over the park. 
 

What I really want is the opportunity to get the confidence to go up and down the the gears in a 10 - 35 mph situation. To know that I can change gear smoothly and what 20, 30 or 40 feels like. When everything is happening a bit faster and the consequences of doing that and getting it wrong with a transit or Cayenne alongside don’t bear thinking about. 
 

I live in the Tyne Valley, Northumberland. We have 12.5miles of gravel track suitable for any motorcycles at Kielder and Otterburn ranges that apparently have private roads both 20 miles away. A used 125 and a trailer could get me to either. I’ll talk to the place that said it would give me a day 1:1 but does anyone know if Otterburn and Kielder require a licence. They are apparently quite popular so I’ll look on local forums too. 
 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 06:28 by AndyAlfa

[bonio]

1 hour ago, AndyAlfa said:

does anyone know if Otterburn and Kielder require a licence

You mean a driving licence? If so then yes. You need a driving licence to drive on any road which the public have access to (whether they have to pay or not).

 

If you want to drive without a licence you have to find a private road that is open only to the owners friends or a specific club and you have to be one of their friends or a member of the club.

 

I'm sorry you're finding it so hard to find people who will take you out at your own pace. The schools are so controlled by the standards set by the dvsa, they have little room to offer anything else. And the dvsa have made it their duty to make it as hard and expensive as possible for people to get on a bike. They'd far rather have you inside a car.

 

[AndyAlfa]

Thanks - yes I’d seen anything accessible for the road needs the cbt.

 

I’ll speak to the training provider who has offered a day and have a look at some more.

 

If push comes to shove my driving licence is pre 2001 which I gather means I can just ride a geared moped. Feels a bit extreme to buy a 50cc moped. Being a classic car enthusiast I thought about a F1SE as that was the standard go to vehicle for 16 year olds with means when I was young. Did you know you can buy a serviceable XJ jag for the price of a Fizzy these days. 

[bonio]

I rode for a year on a moped, on my car licence. It seemed to me like a cheap way of getting to work: I was hoping to save money.

Well that didn't work out as planned.

[onesea]

On 10/05/2025 at 07:28, AndyAlfa said:

......I have not ridden a push bike much since I passed my driving test 40 years ago. I have a pushbike which I use with the kids every year or so. ..........

.........to go up and down the the gears .......

 

OK my thoughts:

• Get on that pushbike and  just ride it don't worry about doing big miles. go and do U turns, figure of 8's anything that you fancy you don't need to race down hills to go fast.  Just get your balance and feel on it so it becomes more natural.
• Hit Facebook local biker groups ask for recommended schools you will not be the only one and there will be good advice about which schools.
• Take the 1 on 1 CBT day if its 8 ours instruction that's fine? They might have to call it that for insurance reasons?
• STOP OVER THINKING THINGS

[RideWithStyles]

Intention is positive one but different.

bicycle tyres are different from most if not all motorbikes behaviour stand still and moving, there is an engine and it’s engagement that that makes it a different beast to handle not just a few more hand and balance requirements..

clutch biting points and behaviour are different to a car but not mind bending, how you use the engine and its gyroscopic effects are much more pronounced but once you know how they work and effect you can use them rather than get worried or not use them to help.

id just get on with a training school and see how it goes, everyone is different and how they or needs- reflect on what happens and comments afterwards.

[Shepherd]

On 11/05/2025 at 13:50, onesea said:

OK my thoughts:

• Get on that pushbike and  just ride it don't worry about doing big miles. go and do U turns, figure of 8's anything that you fancy you don't need to race down hills to go fast.  Just get your balance and feel on it so it becomes more natural.

+1

This helps with the natural lean on corners. I did my cbt with a mate who had never ridden a bicycle,  and was trying to sit bolt upright when trying to turn and slalom. It's natural to lean once you've cycled as a kid.