MattB

The law report in Whiteford v Kubas UAB [2012] The appellant company (K) appealed against a decision that one of its employees (N) was primarily liable for a road traffic accident in which the respondent (W) had been injured. W had been riding a motorcycle along a single carriageway country road. As he approached a bend, a lorry driven by N appeared from the opposite direction. W's right leg struck the front offside corner of the lorry and he sustained serious injury, for which he claimed damages from K. The matter came before the recorder for trial on liability. W's evidence was that when he first saw the lorry, about three seconds before impact, its cab appeared to be over the centre white line whilst its front wheel was on the line. W accepted that he was at fault in that he could have driven further over to his left as he went around the bend, and conceded that if he had done so, he would have passed the lorry. N did not give evidence but the parties' experts did. They agreed that neither W nor N had been driving at speed, and that their view of each other had been hampered by the bend in the road, a change in elevation and a mature tree. The experts agreed that the road was only slightly wider than the lorry, and that the lorry's front wheels were on or just over into W's lane at the time of impact. The recorder found that N, as a professional driver, should have appreciated that he was in a large vehicle on a narrow road and kept to the left. He accepted W's statement that the lorry was encroaching over the centre line at impact. The recorder found that that was causative of the accident, so that K was primarily liable for the accident, although W was 50 per cent contributorily negligent. K contended that, on the facts as found, the recorder had been wrong to find that the lorry had been driven negligently by N. It submitted that, given the relative sizes of the lorry and the carriageway, it was a counsel of perfection to hold that N should have driven even closer to the edge of the road that he had, which amounted to a distance of only a few inches. K argued that any attempt by N to drive any closer to the nearside would give rise to risks of its own. It referred to W's admission that he could have driven more to the centre of the lane, and contended that if he had done so, the collision would have been avoided. HELD: In considering liability for road traffic accidents, the court had to bear in mind the need to avoid imposing a counsel of perfection: the standard was one of reasonable care. The instant case did not concern any dispute of fact, but an assessment of whether negligence was established on the primary facts as found. The Court of Appeal could substitute its own judgment in such circumstances, although it would approach the invitation to depart from the judge's findings with caution. It was striking that the road in question was a relatively narrow country road and the lorry's lane was barely wide enough for it to fit into. The finding that, by straying onto and just beyond the centre white line, N was not acting in the way a reasonable and prudent driver would have was not accepted. On the contrary, it had been reasonable for him to have given himself a reasonable amount of room. The situation N was faced with was not unusual on a country road, and for a lorry driver to have driven on or close to the edge of the road would have created risks of its own. N could not properly be criticised for taking a course keeping him slightly out from the edge. There should have been no problem for a motorcycle taking the proper line to have managed the bend without colliding with N. The facts were not such as to establish a breach of duty on N's part: that would impose an unacceptably high standard. The recorder had erred in his finding as to K's liability, and W's claim had to be dismissed.

We lived in Australia for 10 years and the way it works there is much more sensible: You pay your car registration or "Rego" each year - like road tax, allowing you to drive on the roads. Each state has different costs but it's around $500. Your Rego includes basic third-party insurance, so anyone with a valid licence is covered to drive any registered car. TPFT or Comprehensive insurance can be purchased as a top up. If they can work that system why can't we?

I agree. Why mess about with a 125 if you want a bigger capacity bike, just do the DAS and get the kind of bike you want. From experience (of being an instructor) DAS is the best route because it's done and dusted in a short time while everything is fresh in your mind. You are also learning to ride a larger machine which will give you more confidence in the long run. Ride a 125 for a number of months and you will pick up bad habbits/forget good ones that need to be corrected before test. You will also get frustrated/bored/ignored riding on L plates. DAS is there for a reason, and it's because people with a great deal of experience decided it was the best route into riding a large capacity bike.

Cheers Deso

Makes me glad to be old, means I only pay £85 fully comp with protected NCB for the FZ6

Ahhh that can of worms is getting opened again! I reckon you will get a 50/50 split of people telling you what to do. Personally, I would just go for DAS. At th end of the day you need to decide what you want, but I think you already answered your own question. So start phoning for DAS prices...

Some kind of cafe racer bobbed Harley Sportster thingy?

Congratulations

This is, to be honest, shocking. An instructor should NEVER put a student onto a bike without first going through the explanations of the controls. There is also a lesson where you should manually handle the bike - on and off the stands, wheel it round etc. to get the feel of it. You should then be taught how to get on and off correctly, the safety position, in and out of gear, find the biting point.... And so on I'm amazed you survived the day and I am concerned that you do not feel safe to ride on your own! The instructor that taught me always said - imagine they are your son or daughter, would you be happy for them to ride on their own at the end of the day? You didn't get a proper CBT, despite the fact he was a nice guy. This is your safety that is at risk here. Why do we stand for such poor service in this country?

Crazy Fox Cafe http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w462/MattB70/IMG00060-20120518-1307a.jpg

Light rain according to the Met Office... Anybody decided to go? I can't do this as I have my 7 year old that weekend, but I'm going to stick him in the car and drive down to the Ace so we can watch people arriving and have a nose at the bikes.

Ahh yes, the "good old days". Although not being quite as ancient as tango they had cut this down to a 125 in my time. It does what it says on the tin Compulsory BASIC Training. But at least you realised this - a lot of people don't. Glad you didn't hurt yourself.

I would say this is the problem too. You are thinking about the fact it (in your mind) wont turn, so you start to look at the centre line/other side of the road, all of a sudden you are over there! Ooops... Happens all the time with people on CBT or DAS, and it's a mindset thing. Cornering is more about what you do with your head and eyes than anything else. Turn you head and keep your eyes on that vanishing point of the bend (where the two kerbs meet in the distance). Remember - Slow in, fast out. Knock a bit more off for the cruiser, go in slower and give it time to turn (like Tango said). As that vanishing point starts to move in front of you and open up you know the bend is straightening so you can start to wind on the power.

You need to take: CBT certificate Photocard AND paper counterpart of your licence Theory Test pass certificate Module 1 pass certificate Insurance and MOT cert. if required Your bike must be roadworthy and have mirrors fitted Failing to change your address is in fact an offence. I would suggets you fill in the section for address changes on the paper part and explain you have just moved. And good luck!

The only thing you NEED to take is your licence. Apart from that your instructor/training school should have told you what is or is not provided. If they have not, then ask them. How old is your lid? Is it legal? Don't analyse and over think it too much before you get there. Just turn up on time, listen, follow instructions and you will be fine.

If it was the kill switch then surely the engine would turn over but not fire

Exactly - CBT on a 500 if it is day one of a DAS course, and if your instructor is up for it.

Just remember that your instructor will have to beat all those bad habbits out of you that you have picked up riding in Indonesia. What size bike are you riding? If you want to cut down on time for a DAS course, and your instructor is up for it, you can jump in the deep end and do the CBT on a 500. Saves a days training doing it on a 125 then converting, but you both have to be confident!

The procedure is OSM/PSL when coming to a junction/roundabout etc. Observations - left right mirror Signal Move into your new lane Position ready to turn BUT BEFORE YOU MOVE - LIFESAVER Speed - adjust it Look - if it's clear then go (at a give way) if not, stop Moving from the junction you do not need to check mirrors or look behind. Out of the junction - cancel indicator, mirror check and away. No lifesaver. Remember there is an extra lifesaver when turning right major to minor. Pulling away after stopping at lights you just need a left right mirror check, do not need to look behind. You check mirrors and do a lifesaver and when you sacrifice that safe position in the centre of the lane either moving left or right. You check the mirrors when you change speed.

Cheers Decor

Excellent, well done.

It's a good cause, and I'm ex forces so would be nice to go. But, can't say I relish the thought of a motorway slog up the M1/M6, and looking at the pictures from previous years it looks a bit like a HOG Fest. Am I mistaken?

SERV - a noble cause. Good luck with it, hope it works out.

What makes you think you need an advanced test, not knocking it, just curious? Have you looked at the police Bikesafe scheme? You could do a day and see waht they say. The other alternative is the DSA backed Enhanced Rider Scheme.