Women on submarines?

[CheshireCBR]

Can't see any problem on submarines. Not in infantry though (any decent infantry anyway ), because 99.99% of women just wouldn't be physically string or fit enough to justify the massive logistical implications. When 10% of women applicants could run any kind of distance with a 16 stone man over their shoulders then maybe it's worth considering.

 

I will leave the women to shout at you for this one lmao but me for one, i couldn't carry a 16 stone bloke on my back either lol, it is a certain type of person that joins the military and then they are trained to do what they do, half of which isn't natural to most people.

And just as a side note, i aint no 6 stone weekling, i have spent most of my life grafting on building sites and can hold my own with most people on carrying and lifting.

[bex]

Can't see any problem on submarines. Not in infantry though (any decent infantry anyway ), because 99.99% of women just wouldn't be physically string or fit enough to justify the massive logistical implications. When 10% of women applicants could run any kind of distance with a 16 stone man over their shoulders then maybe it's worth considering.

 

I will leave the women to shout at you for this one lmao but me for one, i couldn't carry a 16 stone bloke on my back either lol, it is a certain type of person that joins the military and then they are trained to do what they do, half of which isn't natural to most people.

And just as a side note, i aint no 6 stone weekling, i have spent most of my life grafting on building sites and can hold my own with most people on carrying and lifting.

 

your right Cheshire, not many men can do that either, and i am sure there are some women out there who could lift a 16 st man, but i bet there are many more who would find a way of moving that man one way or another. we would be trained and we do have a braincell that can work things out. what we lack in strength comes out in inginuity

[TC]

Can't see any problem on submarines. Not in infantry though (any decent infantry anyway ), because 99.99% of women just wouldn't be physically string or fit enough to justify the massive logistical implications. When 10% of women applicants could run any kind of distance with a 16 stone man over their shoulders then maybe it's worth considering.

 

Couldn't disagree with you anymore Arron

One question.............

Fatima whitbread or Richard hammond who would you want fighting next to you.

The Physical aspect of anything in the forces should be sorted out at the careers office stage, the same as the intelligence test's.

[Silverspring]

Wasn't it a submarine where the last murder was comitted in the RN and that was an all male boat.

 

If I'm thinking of the same incident it was while the sub was docked, the guy had been on a 2 day drinking bender, turned up for work and was given a handgun after a quick smell of his breath (most scientific way to check if someone is still drunk?) He was annoyed at having been punished for disobeying a direct order which is why he shot someone (I'm not clear on who he shot and if it was a superior)

So how does that relate to women on submarines? Surely it would be more of an arguement for having a zero tolerance rule for alcohol, that would be fun to try and enforce?!

[Silverspring]

One question.............

Fatima whitbread or Richard hammond who would you want fighting next to you.

 

Totally agree, it may be less likely to find a female who is physically capable of fighting on the front line but they shouldn't be excluded just because of their gender! The Army don't claim it is due to physical weakness (as that would be very difficult to prove) they say the team dynamic simply does not work with females as men try to protect them.

So as I say again, a guy looks after another guy, he's a hero. Same guy looks after a female, she's a liability but I can't see the Army changing their mind anytime soon. Small steps, and ladies getting on subs is a minor victory is genuine gender equality.

[TC]

Wasn't it a submarine where the last murder was comitted in the RN and that was an all male boat.

 

If I'm thinking of the same incident it was while the sub was docked, the guy had been on a 2 day drinking bender, turned up for work and was given a handgun after a quick smell of his breath (most scientific way to check if someone is still drunk?) He was annoyed at having been punished for disobeying a direct order which is why he shot someone (I'm not clear on who he shot and if it was a superior)

So how does that relate to women on submarines? Surely it would be more of an arguement for having a zero tolerance rule for alcohol, that would be fun to try and enforce?!

 

If you qoute the whole text.

The post was about the added stress of submarine life.

Ryan Donovan Had stress levels all over the place for ages. He fallen out with fellow crew members over cleaning rosters, not being allowed the join a support vessel etc. So when he finally got to have get off the sub he went on a bender then, Yes you are correct he was drunk (no excuse) when he was given a weapon.

[Fozzie]

Equality will never exist purely because of the way people will percieve things...

If I say I dont think they should be on subs, I will be seen sensible by some and sexist by others.

With subs I think due to its military function it needs to remain as such. But we are only human at the end of the day and men and women will have their weaknesses because of each other.

Because of that, and the same is said of single sex schooling. Remove the distraction

Have an all women submarine if you want, that I dont honestly care about. I dont doubt their ability, I doubt their ability when mixed. Due to factors from both genders.

[Ratser]

Why not just have separate male and female crewed submarines ?

Could grow into healthy competition as well.

[Silverspring]

Why not just have separate male and female crewed submarines ?

Could grow into healthy competition as well.

 

How excatly would any female get enough experience to captain and control a submarine let alone a whole crew of them? The thing is other countries do it without any issue, is it just British blokes that can't be trusts in a tin can with a couple of women?

[Andy B]

I spent a brief part of my Naval career in Submarines in the early 90's before becoming medically unfit to serve on them due to claustrophobia. I was on a 'Trafalgar' class boat and it was subjected to an MOD study for suitability for mixed crewing as wrens had just gone to sea on surface ships.

As TC has already stated, living conditions are very cramped and there is no room to have seperate female facilities on current classes (except possibly for the Trident boats). There are no physical ie strength reasons females couldn't do the job but in our opinion it boiled down to the simple problems of submarine life such as:

training period-until you have passed a submarine knowledge test (Part 3) which involves learning all the major components, valves, switches, safety systems, firefighting and emergency equipment, you are aren't part of the complement and don't get a bunk so you can end up sleeping in the torpedo room cuddling a spearfish. This takes 3 months minimum to qualify and get your dolphins ( the submariners badge)

'hot bunking' one person gets off the bed the next changes to their sleeping bag and hops onto the bed while it's still warm

submarine showers- fresh water is at a premium so a daily shower consists of- water on for 30secs to get wet all over, water off, soap and shampoo yourself, water back on for anther 30secs to rinse off, water off job done!! No aerosols, talc etc are allowed onboard

The above all add to the pressure of submarine life, living spaces are very cramped, even when you reach the dizzy heights of being entitled to your own bunk you only get a tiny locker which has room for your working kit, if you need to take civilian clothes they go under your matress.

As far as I know the 1st females will be officers on the trident boats, but even as a officer, whilst you are doing part 3 your bed is by a torpedo

Best wishes to all the volunteers, they already serve on Australian (non nuclear) subs

[Fozzie]

One question.............

Fatima whitbread or Richard hammond who would you want fighting next to you.

 

Apples and oranges? If you make a comparison it should be 2 people, male and female with the same training from the same starting point. Not a brummie journalist vs an athlete.

As for being in the infantry, if one got taken hostage i can see impact back here at home being far more powerful. Also in hostage situations women can be raped etc whilst in captivity. The range of emotional and physical torture to them is greater or at least more likely.

Back in world war 2 the men fought and the women helped as medics and supply staff, they were better at it as well as better workers than men, their job in my view made the victory possible. It was even considered an honour. I'm almost appalled by the reaction to a ban being lifted and there being a problem with it. But hey...

[Aaron]

Well the US has just legalized beastiality in the armed forces. I kid you not.

[polecat]

As long as they don't drive them,Im cool with it

[iWannaGoFast]

Similar to women not being allowed to serve in the SAS.

AS long as they can fight the same, have the ability to call upon controlled and fierce aggression at a moments notice and carry the same loads for hundreds of miles (a la the Bravo Two Zero exfil across the desert) then I see no problem.

Now don't flame me, but I just think women are 'built' the same as men, and things like 120lbs across the desert wouldn't be doable?

And the controlled aggression thing, you may have to be silent and calm for days on end, then suddenly have to coldy kill someone or be thrown into a firefight at a seconds notice.

[TC]

As long as they don't drive them,Im cool with it

 

pmsl (I crashed into ...................................... Malta )

[Remy]

I have no strong feelings one way or another with the issue, but think that if men and women work in close proximity to each other there is BOUND to be sexual tension with some, it's pretty inevitable I think. Which will induce unwelcome distractions and not what is desirable under those circumstances ....

[Silverspring]

Also in hostage situations women can be raped etc whilst in captivity.

 

Men can be raped too.

[Fozzie]

Also in hostage situations women can be raped etc whilst in captivity.

 

Men can be raped too.

 

So can very ugly people... Its just less likely

[polecat]

Also in hostage situations women can be raped etc whilst in captivity.

 

Men can be raped too.

 

So can very ugly people... Its just less likely

I can vouch for that

[Ratser]

Why not just have separate male and female crewed submarines ?

Could grow into healthy competition as well.

 

How exactly would any female get enough experience to captain and control a submarine let alone a whole crew of them? The thing is other countries do it without any issue, is it just British blokes that can't be trusts in a tin can with a couple of women?

 

Give them a mini sub ? Could be like going to the toilet, and she can take her pal.

How would I know ?

I don't think it's the blokes who "can't be trusted", more "the emotions and thought processes of women" in a confined space.

[Colin the Bear]

I saw the senior Naval officer commenting on the news

"This will allow us to make the best possible use of the available talent"

Not a flicker , not a wink or a titter.

Made I larf tho.

If you have the physical and mental attributes and are qualified to do a job, then which genitals you have shouldn't barr you from doing said job.

Not sure if PMT and nuclear bombs is a good combination tho

[Roadtorque]

next sub launcher to be called,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, HMS Muff Diver

[Nogin]

I saw the senior Naval officer commenting on the news

"This will allow us to make the best possible use of the available talent"