Newbie, broken down

[karldonteljames]

Evening All.

I've been riding for a grand total of two weeks!! so far covered about 600km, and loving it. the other day I lost power, and the bike stalled, after a few minutes managed to get it started again, but when I opened the throttle it stalled. it done this for about 5-10 minutes then came alive.

Today on the way home I broke down again, same thing happened, loss of power then stalled, when it tired to start it it was having none of it!! after looking at the bike I've found that one of pipes from the the crank breather pipe (http://www.lexmoto.co.uk/HT125-8_parts_ ... T125-8.php) had broken away (the top one in this case) will this cause the symptoms outlined above at all?

I hope someone can help!!

Thanks.

one other thing I noticed is under the fuel tank there is a pipe which has been foldered back on its self and cable tied together. http://edge-audio.co.uk/TMBF/WP_20131017_20_16_30_Pro.jpg

any idea why this would have been done? should I reattached it, and what is that other empty pipe slot for?

Thanks again!

[Tango]

Sorry mate......I've been looking at the picture and can't make out exactly what that bit is.....

Maybe need a few more pics....some from a bit further away so I can see where exactly it is on the bike....

Problem sounds a bit like fuel starvation to me.......are you sure the tank breather is OK?......could be getting a vacuum in the tank that's starving the bike of fuel.....

[karldonteljames]

Hi there, thanks for this, Is the fuel breather pipe the one that comes from the carb? I think that's clear but only done roadside diagnostics. How can I check? should the bike still start with a broken crank breather pipe? I noticed that the pipe really smells of fuel.

I've taken a photo further away as you can see its just in front and below the fuel tank, there is one tiny pipe going to it, but nothing attached to the other two hose connectors as you can see.

Thanks

http://edge-audio.co.uk/TMBF/WP_20131017_21_12_47_Pro.jpg

[DaveM]

Well surely that should have a pipe on the end that got no pipe attached to it

[Mr Fro]

The engine breather pipe just vents the crank in to the inlet to stop oil vapour and therefore oil being deposited all over your bike!

If your breather is cracked it could cause a lean condition in the engine which isn't great. Replace it or bung a bit of gaffa tape round it for a quick fix and see how you go.

Has it only just started smelling of fuel or has it been like that since you got it?

[karldonteljames]

Not sure how long the breather pipe has smelt of fuel, its only because I took it off today I noticed. The bike doesn't smell of fuel, and as far as I know, other than the issues I've had for like two days she rides well, (have nothing to compare it too though)

I assume there should be two pipes attached to that, well, whatever it is, like I said I can see one pipe has been bent over and cabled tied, but cant see what should be attached to the other pipe.

some water ran into the fuel tank when I filled it up the other day, it must have been about a shot or two, but then I put about 15l of fuel in. i'm truly stumped. I know the spark is ok, took the plug out and checked. I did notice the end the plug was quite black though.

thanks for any ideas? really need to get this sorted ASAP.

[mealexme]

ps, check there is fuel in it. Disregard what ever the fuel gauge says and put some more in, try again. It definitely sounds like fuel starvation but Im not mechanically minded enough to know what the pipe does, sorry.

[megawatt]

Drain the tank into a clear container. Remove fuel tap and make sure it's clean and there is no crud on the inlet from the tank. Flush tank out with fresh, clean fuel and dispose of it away from any sparks or electrics. Refit the clean fuel tap.There should be a vacuum connection to the engine and fuel tap to allow the fuel tap to open. Check the outlet from the fuel tap is allowing fuel to flow to the carb. drain fuel from tnhe carb float bowl and if possible remove float bowl to clean any crud and water out. Put it all back together and start the bike up with fresh fuel in the tank and the fuel tap set to reserve.

[karldonteljames]

ok thanks. I'll give that a try tomorrow evening. I've read that if you get water in your tank you should add a small amount of meths to it, is that safe\recommended? does that put straight into the tank? obviously I need to get out what is in there first, just for future reference.

I believe there should also be a water drain hose to stop water accumulating around the tank rim, is this correct?

I think if I have to take the bike apart to this extent, I might as well give it a good clean too!!

Thanks again for everyone's help. If there are any locals that want to give me a hand I can pay with lots of Tea!!! maybe a couple of cans of coke too!!

[DaveM]

To be total honest bud is it a Chinese copie looks it to me buy pics you have put on if so get rid ASAP there nothing but trouble it dose sound like fuel but that's may be only the start of it but I trade in bikes and I no longer touch these bike are to be frank are crap and spend more time not running than they do running try sell it on and buy a good second hand named bike ie Suzuki Yamaha Honda Kawasaki you real won't look back and you can pick these bikes up for not a lot more this time of year but 9 out of 10 you go to these bike and it's trouble free biking don't want to burst your bubble but don't spend much on this bike as ther not worth spending on I had a you new rider that just done same got it thought it was bees knees and it's spent more time of road this summer than on and spent endless on it he has just bought a little Honda shadow and he has never been so happy

[Mr Fro]

Tea for help? Good deal! You can stick some "fuel drier" in to the tank but seeing as you've got such a small volume it's a bit of a waste of time. The easiest thing to do is to take the fuel line off the carb and drain a bit of fuel in to a jam jar or something - you'll easily see if there's water in there as it'll separate out (water on the bottom). Run fuel through the tap until no more water is seen then reconnect the carb, connect a pipe to the carb drain port and run some fuel through that - again, any water will separate out. This procedure is best carried out after the bike has been sat for a few hours to let any water settle to the bottom of the tank/carb.

If you've got a black plug then you're over fuelling so it'd be worth changing the air filter before you start any further diagnostics.

Let us know how you go!

[karldonteljames]

Thanks for everyone's advice, one thing I am not going to do is give up on the bike and sell it just because it is a Chinese bike. this is first bike, and I know I'm likely in the near future to come off of it, and I am going to spend near enough £1000 on a bike to screw it up. Thanks for the advice DaveM but that doesn't really go anyway to answering my question.

This evening I am going to try my best to strip what I can, and clear the carb, tap and pipes of any water that may be in there. (I think I will connect the carb intake to a small bottle of fuel for now just to make sure that is the issue and continue from there)

The bike has been outside my house since last night so should have settled by now hopefully.

I will also replace the spark plug this evening (when I got the bike the idle screw had the bike idling at around 5000RPM) so over fuelling wouldn't surprise me.

Just ordered the breather pipe, which should be with me Monday.

Michael at llexeter.co.uk seemed to be very helpful.

[Grumpy Old Git]

If you still get the same symptoms after doing all you have listed, then try running with the fuel cap loose (or even off). If this 'cures' the problem, then it is a blocked tank breather (normally a pin hole in the tank cap or a breather pipe running from that area).

If you do have water in the fuel, then running on 'normal' rather than 'reserve' will keep the water out of the carb (unless there is a large amount of water in the tank).

Report back how you get on.

[Tango]

That smaller pipe looks like it may go back to the inlet stub.......so that valve is something that is opened/closed by the vacuum in the engine......looks like a bit of an afterthought......I was thinking of Secondary Air Injection.....but I dunno.....

GOG's advice is good.......if you leave the filler cap slightly open and try running it again you'll see if the tank breather is Ok or not.

If the plug is black then it's running rich.....and I think Mr Fro suggested checking the air filter....coz if that's blocked up you will run rich.....

[karldonteljames]

EVENING ALL!!!!

SHES ALIVE!!!! My father in law and I have managed to get her going:

Drained about 2.5l of fuel out through the carb, there is about 30ml of water in the bottom of the bottle,

Poured a capful of petrol into the sparkplug socket,

Bump started and she started.

After taking a look at crankcase breather pipe, it looks like it diverts some of the air back into the air filter, I assume this is to warm it quicker?

I'm happy to reconnect the pipe that has been folded back on its self, but have no idea what should be on the other pipe fitting. I did remove the small pipe and it looks like there is a plunger inside, but I feel I need to figure out what else should be connected to the third connector.

Tomorrow\Sunday I am going to remove the tank and completely drain it, replace the fuel filter, and re-route a couple of the cables as the plugs are a little exposed. Oh and I noticed the filler cab drain pipe is blocked so will sort that out when I remove the tank!

Can't wait for the breather pipe to arrive, I want to ride again, drove to work today and traffic sucks!!!

p.s. Would like to apologise about my outburst about ditching the bike because its Chinese. Didn't mean to offend anyone.

[fredc]

Its an EGR valve daft idea on a bike

and the thicker bit of the downpipe is a cat

[karldonteljames]

So after draining the tank, I took at about 8 litres of "fluid" out of the tank, here is a picture of three of the bottles I drained the fuel into, as you can see there was a large amount water in the tank. I'm guessing this is why the bike stalled, and refused to start! so drained the fuel through the carb (about 2l worth) then drained through the tap, then removed the tap and the tank and drained it completely. The drain pipe from the top of the tank was kinked, so nothing was draining.

http://edge-audio.co.uk/TMBF/WP_20131019_18_25_52_Pro.jpg

[megawatt]

Was there any crud on the fuel tap inlet? Usually a filter there. have you cleaned the fuel tap?

[karldonteljames]

Nope no crud, well a few tiny bits of dirt, but nothing to speak of. I removed the fuel filter, and gave it a clean in some fresh petrol.

[Tango]

Nice try mate......but if you do ever manage to get the bike to run on water be sure to let us into the secret......

[Grumpy Old Git]

So after draining the tank, I took at about 8 litres of "fluid" out of the tank, here is a picture of three of the bottles I drained the fuel into, as you can see there was a large amount water in the tank. I'm guessing this is why the bike stalled, and refused to start! so drained the fuel through the carb (about 2l worth) then drained through the tap, then removed the tap and the tank and drained it completely. The drain pipe from the top of the tank was kinked, so nothing was draining.

http://edge-audio.co.uk/TMBF/WP_20131019_18_25_52_Pro.jpg

 

Please dispose of sensibly - No pouring it down the drain or throwing it on the BBQ!!!

[Mr Fro]

Please dispose of sensibly - No pouring it down the drain or throwing it on the BBQ!!!

Yeah, it'll never stay alight with all this rain.