Treading VERY carefully...

[MarkW]

Yesterday we were told which primary school our youngest son will be attending, and it’s not the same one as his elder brother, despite the fact that we live less than 500 yards from the school gates. Needless to say they are both devastated: they are incredibly close, and have been really excited about being at school together for ages.

My wife and I run our own business, employing a handful of local graduates. As the facility manager of the lab she is legally required to be on site whilst certain types of work are undertaken, meaning that there are frequently times when she can’t get away until 5.15 pm. As the MD, I travel abroad extensively. Our nearest family is 100 miles away in Stoke, so we need after-school provision of some kind until 6 pm. The club at the school our eldest son is at runs until 6 pm, whereas the school they have decided to send our youngest to only run their club until 4.25 pm. Disaster.

I am currently writing a letter to appeal the decision, and if I'm being honest it's a bit of a struggle not to come across as a rabid UKIP voter.

Now, I love the fact that there are so many different cultures represented at my eldest son’s school, and I think there's tremendous value in being brought up in a diverse educational environment. That said, I'm slightly less ecstatic about the fact that according to the official figures, 40% of the pupils there are immigrants, and over 30% of them don't speak English either as a first language, or at all.

As a slightly left-leaning wishy-washy liberal I feel quite disgusted with myself for harboring these vaguely right-wing views, but the bottom line is that loads of people with one child at the school are having to send their second child elsewhere, at least in part because almost every other parent in the playground is Polish. Diversity is one thing, but this seems a bit much. I don’t suspect for a moment that there has been any sort of favoritism, and in fact from what little information I have managed to piece together from other parents it seems that no real criteria have been applied to the admission process at all. Essentially they just seem to have drawn lots, with children with a sibling at the school having been refused places whilst families who live considerably further away have been offered a place for their first child.

We have a meeting with the headmaster this afternoon, and I’m going to make the case that it is impossible to effectively appeal a decision without knowing on what basis the decision was taken. I'm going to ask him to spell out their admissions criteria clearly and unambiguously, and explain on what basis 60 other children were given priority over someone who lives less than 500 yards from the school and already has a sibling there. I have no idea if it will get me anywhere, but I’m good and mad.

[Guest]

how is this school managed? is it one of these semi-independent ones or run by the local authority. if its basically a local authority school then its them you should be appealing to. and from what you've said - seems to me you have a good case.

[MarkW]

Cheers Shorty.

It's a local authority school, and we have started completing the official appeals paperwork. Our meeting this afternoon is to try to get some additional information out of the headmaster, such as their admissions policy which isn't available on their website, and to ensure that we are on their waiting list.

[NeilM]

As above.

Also. Each school has to have a clear and transparent admissions policy. This should be readily available.

Freedom of information act. Threaten them with it and use it. How have the decisions been made etc.

Kick it off with your local press. Express your concerns.

Do not come across as Enochs best mate tho. It won't help.

We have very similar (hell of a lot worse tbh ) issues to Harrogate and it is only because my kids go to a faith school we aren't experiencing the same as they are about to go to high school.

Good luck. Act now tho. Don't delay

[RantMachine]

I'm going to ask a question or two out of personal interest because I feel this is an area in which I am ignorant; please don't take this as a questioning of your values.

Assuming that their selection criteria is effectively based around drawing straws, what relevance does it bear that the school has large numbers of children from immigrant families? Are the families based outside of the school's catchment area but given places regardless in order to satisfy diversity quotas? Because that really would be idiotic.

As a point of interest rather than relevance, is the percentage of children that are from immigrant families proportionate or disproportionate to the percentage of the population within the catchment area that are immigrants?

If they genuinely are employing a completely random selection process and not straying outside of their catchment area, it doesn't sound as if the nationality of the children at the school is the root of the issue - it sounds more like the flaw is in their failure to make provisions for families with several children of school age. Drawing a straw for each family until all places are taken, rather than for each child, would perhaps make more sense?

All questions aside, I think it's a terrible shame that they don't do anything to ensure that siblings are able to attend the same school. Hope you manage to get things sorted in a way that works out well for the whole family.

[XmisterIS]

This is something we are worried about with our daughter (she's only a baby, so it won't be for a few years yet though). The local school goes from year 1 all the way to year 6 (or 7?) and it is literally round the corner from our house. The next school is 3 miles away and in one of the roughest areas of the city. Our fear (perhaps misplaced) is that because we are middle-class well-off homeowners we'll experience militant left-wing prejudice (which is almost as bad as militant right-wing prejudice). Of course I can't know at all whether or not that actually happens during the selection process.

[NeilM]

Oh no..

Please no politics. ...

[Grumpy Old Git]

It could just be that the 'Section Committee' just do not want to be tarred with any kind of 'favouritism' / 'racism' brush and by just'drawing straws', they can all plead 'not guilty' as it is purely random.

I am not saying that this is fair - IMO, it should be family based (already have a child at the school = priority list) and then 'random' selection.

I would write a letter to my MP (copied to the local Newspaper) if you do not get a satisfactory expanation to your current predicament.

Good luck.

'

[Joeman]

Broken Britain..

[RantMachine]

[Invisible_Man]

Hey,

Before I start I must stress I am not a racist.

We live in Grimsby which I now called Polandby. Walking round this town you'd think you were in some Eastern European country. Almost every other voice you hear is foreign. At the school my son goes to more than 50% of his class is Polish, Romanian etc

My daughter is due to start primary school in 2 years time and we will also face the same problem. I can not tell you how annoyed I'll be if some polish etc child gets a place over my ENGLISH daughter. I've lived here all my life, worked since I could do, and paid tax for 14 years (I'm 30). I think I'll be more than a little entitled to be p#ssed off. A lot of, if not all, the foreign parents at his school don't work, claim benefits which they havent worked for and in my opinion contribute f#ck all to this country. Yes there's English equivalents but at least there bloody English!

Britain has gone to the dogs. We are slowly becoming a minority in our own country. If you speak out about it your racist.

Shaun.

[rennie]

Please! let's not do politics or racism!

This isn't the place for it

The school place thing is nothing new,

it's been going on for years!

Good luck with your appeal

[XmisterIS]

Incidentally, immigration is nothing new either - in the days of the Roman Empire, anyone, from any province of the empire, was automatically a Roman citizen so long as they had not been enslaved. Any Roman citizen was free to live anywhere in the empire they chose, provided they had the funds to get there and didn't end up being captured by bandits en-route and sold into slavery!

Senatus Populusque Romanorum!

[rob m]

Hey,Before I start I must stress I am not a racist.

 

We live in Grimsby which I now called Polandby. Walking round this town you'd think you were in some Eastern European country. Almost every other voice you hear is foreign. At the school my son goes to more than 50% of his class is Polish, Romanian etc

My daughter is due to start primary school in 2 years time and we will also face the same problem. I can not tell you how annoyed I'll be if some polish etc child gets a place over my ENGLISH daughter. I've lived here all my life, worked since I could do, and paid tax for 14 years (I'm 30). I think I'll be more than a little entitled to be p#ssed off. A lot of, if not all, the foreign parents at his school don't work, claim benefits which they havent worked for and in my opinion contribute f#ck all to this country. Yes there's English equivalents but at least there bloody English!

Britain has gone to the dogs. We are slowly becoming a minority in our own country. If you speak out about it your racist.

Shaun.

 

[rennie]

Trying to stick to the question,

as said, each school has to have a clear, set out,

admissions policy and you are entitled to see it.

Let's try to keep this thread civil and legal please

people and it just might survive till tomorrow

[Invisible_Man]

Hi,

*Shrugs* Just proves my point really. You speak out you get branded a racist.

Cheers,

IM

[rob m]

Hi,

*Shrugs* Just proves my point really. You speak out you get branded a racist.

Cheers,

IM

 

Sorry but your post was racist IMO. 'Speaking out' reinforces this. I'd suggest not blaming people of other nationalities and maybe looking at local/national government for the cause of the problem.

[cockercas]

Or blame the bbc, if there was something decent on tv then there would be less kids born.

[XmisterIS]

Or blame the bbc, if there was something decent on tv then there would be less kids born.

 

But some people can do two things at once ...

http://images.spiderpaws.com/looney/images/pepe009.jpg

[NeilM]

Britain as a nation has always welcomed and attracted immigrants.

I'm from 2nd generation Irish stock as is a hell of a large percentage of englanders....

The irish when they first came over were treat like dirt in many areas of the country but gradually over time became accepted. Don't forget they at times had their own religon and set up their own school's.

We as a society need a certain level of immigration, it's when it gets out of hand and in some area's of the uk where immigration has not been seen widely this becomes a massive threat to the indigenous population.

Round here we have every bugger under the sun and is and has been the norm for years.

You get used to it and accept it.

[Bogof]

I am currently writing a letter to appeal the decision, and if I'm being honest it's a bit of a struggle not to come across as a rabid UKIP voter.

 

 

I used to write, review and apply admissions policies as part of my day job. I also used to clerk the appeals process for an academy, which basically means I was on hand to advise the appeal panel on matters relating to the appeal process itself and the law on admissions. Although my experience is secondary, the rules are broadly similar and the principles are common to secondary and primary phase (and middle where this applies)

Get a copy of the school's and/or local authority's admissions policy, along with the date that it was last reviewed. Check that the selection and over-subscription criteria have been applied properly and fairly.

If you want help with an appeal I am happy to do what I can to advise you, but first I would need to see the policy, and the letter you received offering a place. Send these via PM or email if you want me to look at them.

[Bogof]

Or blame the bbc, if there was something decent on tv then there would be less kids born.

 

Fewer.

I blame the schools.

[MarkW]

My eldest son has made really good friends with kids from Jamaica, China, Nigeria, the Czech Republic and Poland at his school, and it's great to see. My wife and I have also made very good friends with many of their parents. All very nice, but the thing that took me aback was just how quickly my nice middle class liberal sensibilities went out of the window as soon as I realised that my youngest was going to be split up from his brother, and that my wife and I were in for several years of logistical ball-ache. I started muttering very uncharacteristic things about 'too many bloody non-contributors', and found myself stomping around the living room offering such pearls of wisdom as "I'll take a professional immigrant over a home-grown half-wit any day, but if you can't even be arsed to learn the language then clear off." All very unsavoury.

Anyway, in order to restore some sense of balance I dropped in to Waitrose on my way home and bought some focaccia, which I intend to dip in posh olive oil as I sip a nice Sauvignon Blanc and watch Gardener's World. It doesn't get more middle class than that.

[NeilM]

Class that Mark...lol

I'm staunchly working class. Irrespective of how many bedrooms my house has.

How many vehicles in family. ( 2 cars n a bike)

Wages or anything.

We ( friends and I) were brought up thinking to be labelled middle class was an insult.

Most of us failed the class test on the BBC a couple of years back and have been mullering each other over it ever since.

Right off to chippy n then feed me whippet

[cockercas]

Or blame the bbc, if there was something decent on tv then there would be less kids born.

 

Fewer.

I blame the schools.

 

Me two.

^^^ thats a joke before anyone corrects it.