U - turn help please

[Hoggydo]

Hi guys,

As a newbie to the site apologies for starting off with a plea for advice but I'm having real problems mastering the u - turn in preperation for my mod 1 test. I can do the slalom, figure of 8 and the slow ride pretty well but as soon as I try to do my lifesaver check whilst creeping forward on the bike I just seem to lose my balance and control and either end up going way outside the 7.5 metres allowed or I end up losing balance and putting a foot down! I've been trying dragging the rear brake, slipping the clutch and turning my head way around in my intended direction of travel but I'm still not mastering this maneuvre. This is where my question really comes in - if I start from a stationary position, turn full lock and lean the bike over slightly I can pull away (getting my feet quickly onto the pedals)with ease and make the turn really easily and completely balanced. I have heard that you can, during the test, start in between the cones, left and right shoulder checks, pull away to between the two painted white lines, stop, right lifesaver check and then do the u - turn from a stationary position. Can I please ask any members here for their opinions on this? I would be really grateful for any advice!

Thanks guys

Regards

Paul.

[Joe85]

You only have to do a lifesaver before pulling away so long as you begin the turn within a few meters.

Try not to lock the steering and always keep on the throttle.

[bmwdave]

I had this problem because I was trying to look too far round and pulling on the bars as a result. You're only trying to check your blind spot, so dont turn your head too far, thats causing the problem. When turning, head up and look where you want to go.

[NeilM]

Keeping your head up is definitely the key.

Look down at the road and your feet have a tendency to follow.

[Glorian]

From start to finish.

Wait for instructor to say to go. Put it in gear, and cover the rear brake. Check your mirrors and do a right shoulder (unless you're doing it the other way round) life saver, While you do that put on the revs to about 4-5k and slowly let the clutch out so you move fast enough you keep your balance but not so fast you can't do the manouver!

Now the tricky bit..

A lot of people try to turn straight away, (nuh uh you no do that ci?) You have a long area to use. pull off (as above) and get balanced get your feet on the pegs and get ready. Do a shoulder check BEFORE you start to turn and when you have done it crank your head around and LOOK at the END point(Where you need to stop), do NOT look at the line directly parallel to you. now if you find you come around and you're to far away from the line, if you went far enough down when you started you will have plenty of space to adjust this before you have to stop.

Remember :

- Life savers

- High revs and pull clutch in/out

- Going to fast use the rear brake but don't hold it the whole time

- Use all the space avaliable!

Good luck

[Tyler Durden]

I did it a different way to the recommendations above.

I only carried out one lifesaver, Once i pulled away, providing i was within a bike length of my starting point i was trained that i only had to do a single lifesaver then get right into the turn, Use counter balancing to get round the turn in the space provided and keep my balance, clutch in as you are about to finish the turn and ta-dah! job done

[Joeman]

If you have a bike to practice on, go and practice riding around in circles. Start big and slowly reduce them down to as tight as possible. After a few laps you'll get the hang of it.

[Glorian]

You should do a life saver as you pull off (start of everything on the test) and then move down the marked area and when you start your manouver you do another and turn your head to help move the bike.

[john67]

Probably more correct not to start then stop. Normal start with lifesaver, take some of your 7.5metres, another quick lifesaver distinct from your look back. Feather the clutch so's the bike is only moving slowly. Keep looking back to where you're going to stop on the other side of the road, the bike will go to where you're looking and you'll end up with a nice u-turn under control which is what you're after. It is important to separate the lifesavers from the look back though they're nominally in the same direction. Needs a little bit of practice but it is possible to do these nicely.

Good Luck

John

[Hoggydo]

Thanks for your advice and words of encouragement guys - much appreciated

Cheers

[nickjaxe]

I was struggling with this as well...I found things where more under control if I let the bike just go with the engine at idle/tickover speed...shoulder check and look in the direction your want to go...

Passed my Mod 2 last week.

I also found doing the slalom and fig 8 so much easier with the engine at idle speed....covering the clutch as it need slipping a bit at times.

Maynot work on all bikes but did on my 650 Kawasaki.

[klingelton]

you're too tense when you do your second shoulder check.

shoulder check.

move off

balance

shoulder check

balance

find your turning point and allow the bike to tip in (don't look at the road, look over your shoulder and allow the bike to turn.)

change your focal point to complete your turn.

don't forget to keep your revs up and feather that clutch.

All's good.

well, that's how i did it - find your own way of doing it - but a few things to remember. keep your head up!!

[HondaHero]

If you look where you want to go, and not where your body is telling you you are going, that's where the bike will go just as long as your chin is up. If you watch someone else do it, you will see that their head is cocked in an unnatural and peculiar position, like a bird.

About the controls: if you listen to jazz or swing or bebop or similar, note what your foot does when you're sitting down. That's the feathering back brake action: high frequency, semi-conscious, small range of movement in the ankle. Clutch pressure: no change at all once moving.

Keep revs up and feather the back brake and look up and where you're going, and you can't go wrong. This maneuvre is the most boring to practise and causes fatigue in the right hand when practising. Also, you will occasionally make a mistake when practising, even when you've got it. It can be a useful maneuvre. Since passing the test I've done many U-turns while riding around exploring new areas, and never feathered the back brake. However, when the examiner's eyes are on you, you will want to use that back brake and keep revs up for the U-turn exercise.

[klingelton]

If you look where you want to go, and not where your body is telling you you are going, that's where the bike will go just as long as your chin is up. If you watch someone else do it, you will see that their head is cocked in an unnatural and peculiar position, like a bird.

About the controls: if you listen to jazz or swing or bebop or similar, note what your foot does when you're sitting down. That's the feathering back brake action: high frequency, semi-conscious, small range of movement in the ankle. Clutch pressure: no change at all once moving.

Keep revs up and feather the back brake and look up and where you're going, and you can't go wrong. This maneuvre is the most boring to practise and causes fatigue in the right hand when practising. Also, you will occasionally make a mistake when practising, even when you've got it. It can be a useful maneuvre. Since passing the test I've done many U-turns while riding around exploring new areas, and never feathered the back brake. However, when the examiner's eyes are on you, you will want to use that back brake and keep revs up for the U-turn exercise.

 

I may be misunderstanding this, but are you saying NOT to feather the clutch, but instead control the speed using your rear brake?

[soll]

If you look where you want to go, and not where your body is telling you you are going, that's where the bike will go just as long as your chin is up. If you watch someone else do it, you will see that their head is cocked in an unnatural and peculiar position, like a bird.

About the controls: if you listen to jazz or swing or bebop or similar, note what your foot does when you're sitting down. That's the feathering back brake action: high frequency, semi-conscious, small range of movement in the ankle. Clutch pressure: no change at all once moving.

Keep revs up and feather the back brake and look up and where you're going, and you can't go wrong. This maneuvre is the most boring to practise and causes fatigue in the right hand when practising. Also, you will occasionally make a mistake when practising, even when you've got it. It can be a useful maneuvre. Since passing the test I've done many U-turns while riding around exploring new areas, and never feathered the back brake. However, when the examiner's eyes are on you, you will want to use that back brake and keep revs up for the U-turn exercise.

 

I may be misunderstanding this, but are you saying NOT to feather the clutch, but instead control the speed using your rear brake?

 

what i think hes saying is...... lifesaver, pull away, life saver, breather, start turn with high rev's, clutch control and the rear brake being dragged to add control.... its what i did second time.

just practice in a carpark some where.. i did 120 uturns the day before my retest to make sure i had it nailed

[klingelton]

Clutch pressure: no change at all once moving.

 

this is the bit that was worrying me...

it's a combination of feathering the clutch and controlling the speed with the rear brake.

as previously said, get yourself in a carpark and practice!

[HondaHero]

what i think hes saying is...... lifesaver, pull away, life saver, breather, start turn with high rev's, clutch control and the rear brake being dragged to add control.... its what i did second time.

 

Yes, that's it exactly. Apologies for any confusion. When I used the term 'feathering' I meant dabbing on and off to control the speed and to keep the bike rolling. Of course you should hover over the clutch and take it in and put it out when necessary, but the technique I was describing, taught to me by my instructor when I was cackhanded with the clutch and nervous with a big bike (so nervous and so cackhanded I tipped it over in training), was to do much less with the clutch than with the back brake. It involves holding the clutch just a little beyond biting point but really just keeping the revs higher than comes naturally, and dragging the back brake. This technique can make it easy, but if it's something completely new and if clutch control isn't a problem don't do it. No point trying a second technique that does the same thing if you can move it around another way.

[klingelton]

I just can't get my head around that technique! surely that would be more difficult than learning a proper balance of clutch control and rear brake. also - in doing this also for a protracted period of time, you're going to leave yourself with premature wear on your rear brake components?

Willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.

[HondaHero]

I just can't get my head around that technique! surely that would be more difficult than learning a proper balance of clutch control and rear brake. also - in doing this also for a protracted period of time, you're going to leave yourself with premature wear on your rear brake components?

Willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.

 

It works and you can try it yourself. Just keep the revs high and you will see this is a crude way that works and requires less finesse. Alternatively you're going to have to see it demonstrated. But I think you'll get it the first time. You sort of lurch through the U-turn maneuvre with this technique. The only way it's different from just feathering the clutch is that you're treating the rear brake as if it were the clutch. The effect is the same: moving you forward faster or slower. It will wear out the rear brake faster, and probably the clutch as well.

There is yet another way to do the U-turn too! That is to use a bike without EFI, and set the idle mixture and speed on the carb so that it's running fast and a little lean at idle, then just slowly letting the clutch out without any throttle. It will move forward at a slow, constant pace just on idle, without stalling. Then all you need to do is balance the bike and look where you're going during the maneuvre.

I haven't mentioned any obs, not putting left the foot over the white line, etc. because I've just been talking about moving the bike around. Many ways to skin a cat.

[klingelton]

lurching around doesn't sound particularly conducive to the smooth technique you would need to complete a U-Turn. i think you'd end up stalling and dropping the bike or piling into the nearest hedge.

I'm going to stick with clutch control thanks.

[Hoggs]

Just keep the revs high and you will see this is a crude way that works and requires less finesse.

 

The point of the maneuvers mod is to ensure you have full control of the bike at slow speed so you are safe on the roads (pulling out, in traffic etc). It's not really productive to try and "cheat" this section as it's something you will need to be good at in every day riding.

Practise letting the clutch out very slowly until you can feel the bite point and keep your chin up (looking down at the ground will result in a foot down!)

[HondaHero]

lurching around doesn't sound particularly conducive to the smooth technique you would need to complete a U-Turn. i think you'd end up stalling and dropping the bike or piling into the nearest hedge.

 

No, that's not right. Firstly, you won't stall because your revs are up. Second, dropping the bike or piling into the nearest hedge will happen if you look down or look straight ahead at that hedge. This method is actually a lot easier for beginners and provides more than enough control to complete the maneuvre but the speed during the maneuvre is more variable. It takes the burden away from having fine motor control in the left hand. Why do I feel like I'm selling it to you? Just try it or don't. The end.

 

I'm going to stick with clutch control thanks.

 

Oh thanks for letting me know.

[klingelton]

lurching around doesn't sound particularly conducive to the smooth technique you would need to complete a U-Turn. i think you'd end up stalling and dropping the bike or piling into the nearest hedge.

 

No, that's not right. Firstly, you won't stall because your revs are up. Second, dropping the bike or piling into the nearest hedge will happen if you look down or look straight ahead at that hedge. This method is actually a lot easier for beginners and provides more than enough control to complete the maneuvre but the speed during the maneuvre is more variable. It takes the burden away from having fine motor control in the left hand. Why do I feel like I'm selling it to you? Just try it or don't. The end.

 

Handbags!

[HondaHero]

Just keep the revs high and you will see this is a crude way that works and requires less finesse.

 

The point of the maneuvers mod is to ensure you have full control of the bike at slow speed so you are safe on the roads (pulling out, in traffic etc). It's not really productive to try and "cheat" this section as it's something you will need to be good at in every day riding.

 

How is it cheating, to control the bike a different way? I wasn't taught this technique as a 'cheat', but as a legit way of controlling the bike. The examiner isn't interested in exactly how you get the speed under control in the U-turn.

[Hoggs]

If it works for you that's great but as you said it is a crude way. If people are struggling with clutch control I'd recommend practice practice practice!

Just don't get lead foot on that back brake!

At least we can all agree that using the front brake is a massive no no