Proposed changes to CBT and tests

[Stu]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvsa-sets-out-proposals-to-improve-motorcycle-training

The proposed changes for riders are to:

 

2. take away (revoke) compulsory basic training (CBT) certificates of riders who get 6 penalty points


4. introduce a training course for riders to upgrade their motorcycle licence, instead of passing extra tests


6. restrict riders to riding an automatic motorcycle if they take their CBT course on one


8. consider introducing a theory test that has to be taken before (or as part of) the CBT course


10. change the CBT course syllabus from 5 parts to 4

 

There are also proposed changes to:

 

2. improve the motorcycle instructor qualification process


4. improve the way training courses are quality assured


6. introduce an ‘earned recognition’ scheme for motorcycle training schools


8. move the recording of CBT courses from a paper-based system to a digital service

[ThePhatomfart]

I think if I had to resit my licence, I'd be back on a push bike

[TC1474]

Proposals should also have included

Get rid of the DVSA and replace with a body that knows what they are talking about

[Guest]

I thought 1, 2, 3 were current anyway?

When will they include checking faceache updates on the move with the training?

[TimR]

Note .they are asking for input on this until Feb 17th so don't stay quiet !

[Joeman]

Sounds pretty reasonable no?

[TC1474]

Note .they are asking for input on this until Feb 17th so don't stay quiet !

 

They only go out to consultation because it is a legal requirement.

They don't actually take any notice of anything that is said by anyone outside of the DSA or Government.

I used to be a subject matter expert (which means that I wrote questions for the theory test) as well as being a CBT/DAS instructor and the attitude was "We are the licencing authority for the UK so we know it all!" Nobody knows better and that was/is their attitude.

The enhanced rider scheme only came about because they sent 2 of their top guys to Devizes to do the full Police advanced course and after 6 days or so they were so out of their depth they gave up and went back and devized the ERS which is a jumped up DAS level.

The DSA are not fit for purpose................

[Throttled]

There was something about being allowed onto motorways as well.

[TC1474]

There was something about being allowed onto motorways as well.

 

Which is all well and good if the instructor knows how to use a Motorway properly.

My brother in law is an instructor and he has not got a clue and most instructors I have spoken to have very little idea of how to use a motorway properly

[Hoggs]

There was something about being allowed onto motorways as well.

 

Which is all well and good if the instructor knows how to use a Motorway properly.

My brother in law is an instructor and he has not got a clue and most instructors I have spoken to have very little idea of how to use a motorway properly

just stay in the middle Lane

[Guest]

There was something about being allowed onto motorways as well.

 

Which is all well and good if the instructor knows how to use a Motorway properly.

My brother in law is an instructor and he has not got a clue and most instructors I have spoken to have very little idea of how to use a motorway properly

just stay in the middle Lane

And brake, sharply for an unclear reasons. Maybe the heater is on 3 not 2

[Guest]

I gave two bits of feedback based around one principal, that a CBT is basic training designed to get you on the road, on L plates, so you can train for a test. It is not a long term alternative to a full license for small bikes. For that reason two things should be changed.

Stop allowing people to renew the CBT. Many commuters on mopeds and 125's just resit the CBT every two years and never get trained and tested. I'm pretty sure when I did my CBT in 1995, if you didn't take a test within 2 years it expired and you had to wait 2 years until you were allowed to renew it. Maybe someone my same age riding since 16 can confirm if I'm remembering that right?

Change the A1 license classification which restricts young people to a 125 until they are 19. Nobody in their right mind is going to regularly use a 125 with a pillion or on a motorway, so paying for a test and training gives them nothing they dont already have. This restriction totally deincentivises them from taking a test. They just ride on a CBT for 3 years until they can test for an A2 license. Previously being able to get something useful like a 33bhp restricted 650cc bike, gave an incentive to take the test.

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Edited January 1, 2017 by Anonymous

[Stu]

I think the cbt should be abolished!

Make everyone pass the test like car drivers have to

[Joeman]

I think the cbt should be abolished!

Make everyone pass the test like car drivers have to

 

Abolish completely and you will reduce the number of people getting into bikes.

Maybe make it only valid for 6months so people have the chance to try biking and if they like it sit the test.

[Stu]

I think the cbt should be abolished!

Make everyone pass the test like car drivers have to

 

Abolish completely and you will reduce the number of people getting into bikes.

Maybe make it only valid for 6months so people have the chance to try biking and if they like it sit the test.

 

Safety first!

Give people more training as IMO the cbt is not enough

[TC1474]

I think the cbt should be abolished!

Make everyone pass the test like car drivers have to

 

And go back to the carnage we had pre 1990? No thanks

CBT was always intended as a a course to give new riders the basic skills before they were allowed on the road, unlike in my day when it was a case of the dealer gave you the keys and said "Off you go" knowing full well that within a few weeks you would be back looking for the bike to be repaired after you hd fallen off,

CBT has worked by and large. I remember being told when I did my instructors course in 1990 that they wanted to see a 70% reduction in the accident rate with new riders withing 5 years. The target was reached within 2 years

They have tried limiting the life of a CBT certificate. When CBT was first introduced it was for life, then they put a time limit on it, then riders who failed to pass their test within 2 years were disqualified for 12 months, but nothing worked other than the DSA have kept moving the goal posts further away from what was originally intended of being basic training course to allow new riders to get an understanding of how to ride a bike which would allow then to go away and develop their skills.

Too many people keep tinkering with it. Go back to the early days. it worked. get the DSA to police schools and instructors properly stop instructors cutting corners

DSA and Government have made it more and more difficult for riders to obtain a full licence not to mention more and more expensive, but riding standards at learner level were actually better 25 years ago than they are now.

The problems start at the top (hence my previous comment that DSA are not fit for purpose). make CBT what it was intended as in the first place and re-think the whole learner road user programme.

[Stu]

I just fail to see how someone riding a bike is any different to driving a car!

If they can't pass a test then they shouldn't be allowed on the road

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure when I did my CBT in 1995, if you didn't take a test within 2 years it expired and you had to wait 2 years until you were allowed to renew it.

I thought the cbt was 3 years and a 1 year gap, unless they put the wrong expiry date, then it went to 2 years and renew when it expired straight away.

Forget what year i did it though

[Copycat73]

I think the cbt should be abolished!

Make everyone pass the test like car drivers have to

 

well that's the system used in Germany and iirc. many other Euro member states..

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure when I did my CBT in 1995, if you didn't take a test within 2 years it expired and you had to wait 2 years until you were allowed to renew it.

I thought the cbt was 3 years and a 1 year gap, unless they put the wrong expiry date, then it went to 2 years and renew when it expired straight away.

Forget what year i did it though

TC posted it was 2 years then a 1 year disqualification, so now we have three different versions.

Anyway, no matter, the point I'm trying to make remains the same, riding on a CBT should only be a temporary measure to allow you to learn to pass the test.

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[Guest]

I just fail to see how someone riding a bike is any different to driving a car!

If they can't pass a test then they shouldn't be allowed on the road

The key difference is Mum and Dad aren't going to sit on pillion of a 50cc moped while wee Johnny learns to ride. If they did they won't help much with wee Johnny's machine control.

Cars can quite practically have Mum or Dad in the passenger seat supervising the L plate driver while they practice what had been taught in their lessons.

That's not practical on a moped or 125, so wee Johnny on his L plates needs a way he can legally get out on the roads and practice on his own.

The CBT is it.

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[Stu]

I just fail to see how someone riding a bike is any different to driving a car!

If they can't pass a test then they shouldn't be allowed on the road

The key difference is Mum and Dad aren't going to sit on pillion of a 50cc moped while wee Johnny learns to ride. If they did they won't help much with wee Johnny's machine control.

Cars can quite practically have Mum or Dad in the passenger seat supervising the L plate driver while they practice what had been taught in their lessons.

That's not practical on a moped or 125, so wee Johnny on his L plates needs a way he can legally get out on the roads and practice on his own.

The CBT is it.

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But that is no excuse to let uneducated idiots loose on the roads after a few hours training

[TimR]

I just fail to see how someone riding a bike is any different to driving a car!

If they can't pass a test then they shouldn't be allowed on the road

The key difference is Mum and Dad aren't going to sit on pillion of a 50cc moped while wee Johnny learns to ride. If they did they won't help much with wee Johnny's machine control.

Cars can quite practically have Mum or Dad in the passenger seat supervising the L plate driver while they practice what had been taught in their lessons.

That's not practical on a moped or 125, so wee Johnny on his L plates needs a way he can legally get out on the roads and practice on his own.

The CBT is it.

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But that is no excuse to let uneducated idiots loose on the roads after a few hours training

 

That would lead to the demise of the takeaway delivery way of life .... could you handle it ?

[TC1474]

TC posted it was 2 years then a 1 year disqualification, so now we have three different versions.

 

There have been various different validity dates

We had valid for life when it started in 1990 as it was supposed to be a one time nly course

Then we had a 3 year rule

I think it then went to 5 years

Then back to 2 years it all becomes very confusing.

It has changed several times in the 27 years that CBT has been running.

[TC1474]

But that is no excuse to let uneducated idiots loose on the roads after a few hours training

 

But its still better than what we had pre 1990 which was nothing

The old Part 1 test was intended for those tat had been riding for a while and wished to get a full licence and the RAC/ACU course before that was a voluntary do it if you wish type of course that very few took up.