Clicking clutch on GS500f

[macjaffa]

Hi everyone!

 

I hope you can help, please.  I'm back on the bike after 10 years in a car...and on a 2004 Suzuki GS500f.  It's quite high mileage (about to go to 50,000), but it was well looked after by the PO and I needed a 'back to biking' bike and a cheap commute.  He replaced the clutch cable just 500 miles ago. 

 

However, the first time I checked the oil since having the bike, it was pretty much out and dry...I know...my bad, I should have checked as soon as I got it.  I put more oil in (semi, 10-40) and I do know that I've put a little too much in...but I now wonder if I should have drained some out.

 

Yesterday I went to ride and the clutch felt odd....as I start riding there is a click coming from down in the bike and I feel it through the clutch lever...I'm pretty sure it's actually moving the lever too.  I can clunk a few gear changes, but it's all uncomfortable and I just circled around the block and parked up. 

 

I did wonder if someone knocked the bike over as I'm sure the clutch lever wasn't a bit bent, as it is now, but I don't know if I'm making that up and imagining it.  No other signs of a drop.

 

Any ideas what this is, please?  When finding out what oil to put in, I did read somewhere that putting too much in can be detrimental...I honestly thought I'd lose some  anyway and have checked it regularly...not lost any.  Is it just too much in the clutch system?  Can I undo the drain plug and let some out and do it back up again?  

 

Thanks for any thoughts.  

Edited October 26, 2021 by macjaffa
Titled the bike incorrectly

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

What oil did you use and how much is too much? The main issue with too much oil is that it froths and then the pump can't get it round the engine. But you need to go over by a fair bit for that to happen. 

 

Easy to drain a bit out or use a syringe to suck some out.

 

If there's a snag in the cable check the adjustment and make sure the cable is running free. On those type it's probably one that needs oiling to keep the cable running smoothly.

[macjaffa]

Hi, and thanks for the reply. 

 

It's semi 10 - 40, which is recommended.  But yes, I think it definitely has too much oil in it...it's clearly over the line.  

In that instance, I believe I should drain some oil, clean out the air filter....and maybe change the spark plugs?  They may have oil on the tips now?  

 

After looking at a picture of the front sprocket, where the clutch cable goes into the engine, I did wonder if there's something caught (perhaps in the chain..I've looked but can't see all of it) and intermittently tugging at the cable...is this a possibility?  It feels like a tug on the lever. Or is this a noob thought?

 

As for the clutch oil, I'll look into getting some, thanks. 

[Yorky]

33 minutes ago, macjaffa said:

 They may have oil on the tips now? 

 

'kin ell, you've really overfilled it !!

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

40 minutes ago, macjaffa said:

Hi, and thanks for the reply. 

 

It's semi 10 - 40, which is recommended.  But yes, I think it definitely has too much oil in it...it's clearly over the line.  

In that instance, I believe I should drain some oil, clean out the air filter....and maybe change the spark plugs?  They may have oil on the tips now?  

 

After looking at a picture of the front sprocket, where the clutch cable goes into the engine, I did wonder if there's something caught (perhaps in the chain..I've looked but can't see all of it) and intermittently tugging at the cable...is this a possibility?  It feels like a tug on the lever. Or is this a noob thought?

 

As for the clutch oil, I'll look into getting some, thanks. 

But is it motorcycle specific oil? Oils for cars don't work well with motorcycle clutches.

[Fozzie]

Too much oil can put pressure on the engine components, as it literally can't get out of the way quick enough. This might explain why the clutch feels like the lever is pulsing, as its pushing the mechanism. 

 

I'd drain the oil and start again, as mentioned above use an oil specified for use with motorbikes if you haven't already. Oil is oil, but the additives used between the two products vary and can cause clutch slip on bikes if certain car specific variants are used.

 

[macjaffa]

Hi, 

I'm so sorry for not replying...has been such a horribly busy time...bike problems and a car MOT failure in the same week...and I almost died.  

 

So, the oil overfill was taken care of...I didn't ride again until I got hold of a syringe to drain some out...it wasn't that much, it was okay...but lesson learned there.  Sorry Mississippi, yes it was motorcycle specific oil. 

 

Regarding the click from the clutch... ...

 

A local who helps out with bikes told me it may well be a broken tooth on the sprocket or perhaps something got in -some debris from the road- and just needs to be taken out.  So, I took gear shifter off, took off the casing and peeked inside at the front sprocket...the idea being that something could be caught there and be pulling on the clutch mechanism...and a little round thing fell out.  Like a round paperclip.  Being a donut (noobs be killin' themselves), I didn't think that little round thing looked like it belonged and assumed that was the debris from the road.  

I sent a photo of the sprocket and the round thing to the 'advice guy'...saying I figured that was the debris...also that I noticed the front sprocket can have a little wobble.  I was told the sprocket should have a bit of movement.  What wasn't said, however, was that the little round thing was not debris from the road...it is a little clip that holds the sprocket on.  I didn't connect it in my head (noob)...I gave my (incorrect) assumptions to a mechanic...and got a thumbs up.  It's not his fault...it was free text advice, bless him.....but....

 

....I'm just about to join the motorway, doing about 15mph as I had slowed for traffic lights ...and BANG....the chain locks, the wheel seizes and I'm almost going over the handlebars.  

I honestly feel so lucky that I hadn't made it 200 feet ahead where I would have accelerated onto the motorway.  

 

The AA guy made a makeshift clip out of twisted wire and followed me as I rode slowly home.  

 

What had happened was that the clip had come off and the sprocket was on a slant or wobble...rubbing against the clutch mechanism....exactly the right theory but that it wasn't debris from the road, it was the sprocket clip. 

 

I now need a sprocket and chain set.  But, this is only worth doing if the output shaft is okay...

 

Does this look okay?  Any thoughts? 

 

Thanks.  

 

[bonio]

I'm no expert but here's what I'm thinking:

It's hard to see from the pics what state the splines are in, but you can test it out, I'd have thought.

Is the front sprocket ok? If so, when you put it on the shaft with the clip in place, is there any play between it and the shaft splines? It should be rock solid, otherwise, you're going to get bumpy transmission and perhaps put excess wear on the engine. 

If the sprocket is damaged, you can get a new sprocket to test it out with; should be able to get one for under a tenner.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

As @bonio says - it's hard to tell for sure from the photo, it may have been a weak circlip. I'd try fitting a replacement sprocket with a new circlip and see how secure it feels. The circlip shouldn't be loose enough to fall off.

[macjaffa]

Thanks to both of you...

 

...so, I will go and take the casing off and have another look, haha, getting faster at it now!  If I recall, the sprocket would fit quite tightly onto the splines -I had to get it really nicely aligned for it to slide on...and then it seemed to do so like a nice 'click' into place; it wouldn't rotate.  However, the sprocket can be easily pulled off and has a little bit of side to side wobble -if I hold either side and push back and forth.  I have read that this is normal, for chain fluctuation?  And the mech guy said it should have a bit of play.  As for the circlip...that is weak and can just be pulled off.

 

So, perhaps it was just the circlip had become weak, dislodged and fell off...the sprocket has been wobbling and nudging the clutch...and eventually fallen off. 

 

So, if the splines seem solid and a sprocket and circlip replacement makes it all seem fine...am I not supposed to change the chain (and rear sprocket) with the front sprocket?  The chain experiencing a complete lock and jam up may have been messed up...although on visual inspection it looks okay. 

This is an old GS500f with 250,000 on the clock...for use until next summer-ish.  But I'd like to live until the summer.  Safety is main thing.

 

Thanks

[fastbob]

I disagree , the sprocket shouldn't be rock solid . Many bikes have front sprockets that allow a degree of " Float " . What I do not like about this bike is the fact that the sprocket is held on by nothing but a Circlip but I've checked the parts catalogue and this is actually CORRECT . 

Edited November 3, 2021 by fastbob

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

48 minutes ago, macjaffa said:

Thanks to both of you...

 

...so, I will go and take the casing off and have another look, haha, getting faster at it now!  If I recall, the sprocket would fit quite tightly onto the splines -I had to get it really nicely aligned for it to slide on...and then it seemed to do so like a nice 'click' into place; it wouldn't rotate.  However, the sprocket can be easily pulled off and has a little bit of side to side wobble -if I hold either side and push back and forth.  I have read that this is normal, for chain fluctuation?  And the mech guy said it should have a bit of play.  As for the circlip...that is weak and can just be pulled off.

 

So, perhaps it was just the circlip had become weak, dislodged and fell off...the sprocket has been wobbling and nudging the clutch...and eventually fallen off. 

 

So, if the splines seem solid and a sprocket and circlip replacement makes it all seem fine...am I not supposed to change the chain (and rear sprocket) with the front sprocket?  The chain experiencing a complete lock and jam up may have been messed up...although on visual inspection it looks okay. 

This is an old GS500f with 250,000 on the clock...for use until next summer-ish.  But I'd like to live until the summer.  Safety is main thing.

 

Thanks

I had one of those and the front sprocket will 'float' slightly on the shaft. You can often get away with putting on a new front sprocket without a new chain and rear so long as the chain and rear are reasonably ok. Front sprockets wear more quickly so some people replace them alone.

 

As said, I'd try a new circlip first. They should really snap into the groove and be impossible to remove without circlip pliers. Maybe someone used the wrong size?

[PaulCa]

Slipper clutch?  If the clutch plates have dried out it might be "grabby" and the slipper clutch is trying to stop you stalling?

I'm probably talking crap though.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

5 minutes ago, PaulCa said:

Slipper clutch?  If the clutch plates have dried out it might be "grabby" and the slipper clutch is trying to stop you stalling?

I'm probably talking crap though.

Not on the GS500

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

250,000 is pretty impressive.

[fastbob]

That chain looks as dry as a bone . You still have to lubricate the rollers even on an O ring chain . One issue I've always had with O ring chains is that they run relatively quietly even when they are completely shagged out . The sideways bend test will often reveal shocking levels of wear on an apparently serviceable looking chain ..

[macjaffa]

Hi, 

Sorry for no update or reply...has been so crazy....

 

I meant 50,000 on the clock, btw, sorry.

 

I replaced the circlip and it seems snug...it was tighter than the one that fell out, so I don't know if it was just worn but the new one seems better.  I took a ride into town and back and it all seemed fine...no click or clunk!  I planned to ride it around town for a few miles and then to take the case off and inspect, just to make sure it's all okay...the chain looks okay even after having locked the wheel.  I think. Eeek.

 

And yes, the chain did look dry...I have a scottoiler on there but wonder if that's not doing its job?

 

The bike now won't start...but I'll start another thread for that...but thank you for all the help and thoughts!