lukesft Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Hey there, I have just passed my mod 2 for full category A license. I practiced and tested on an MT-07 and I am looking for a bike around a similar engine size. I plan to go to Europe in the summer on a bike and do some touring. My girlfriend is from Madrid so likely to do lots of riding in Spain and need something suitable for a pillion newbie. I have been recommended the tracer 700 which looks quite ideal - but wondering if anyone had any other recomendations from budget (under £3k) to mid range (£5/6k) to more expensive (around £10k mark). Any help much appreciated - also soft or hard panniers etc? best upgrades and accessories for this kind of trip? cheers L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonio Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Congratulations on the pass Here are a few suggestions until other come along with better ones... Expensive: R1200GS TE 2013 on (from £7k). An amazing can-do-all bike: easy days on motorways when you want to get somewhere fast, plenty of room on the bike for 2. Get one with a top box: it makes a first class pillion seat back. Preferably with panniers too: they carry a lot of stuff. Only downer is that they're heavy - a lot heavier than an MT07 - and although they feel weightless as 10mph+, you'd have to be sure you're comfortable with the weight at slow speed and when stopped. Depends in part on how big you are. Tracer 900 GT. Very well-regarded bike; my mate has one and tours everywhere. Should be suitable for pillion too. Mid range: Z1000SX (from £5.5k), or Versys 1000 (from 4k). Two very different bikes from Kawasaki, but both are very competent and either would do what you want without batting an eyelid. Get one with panniers included. I like the Z a bit more - I find it a more engaging ride, but its probably less comfortable for a pillion. Cheaper: Reliability is the issue here; you don't want a bike that is likely to let you down when you're touring. So, VFR750? Sprint GT1050 (a bit heavier to handle and perhaps less reliable). Transalp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeHorton Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) The tracer 7 is basically the same engine as the mt07 you rode on I dunno if you can get a used one for 3k maybe consider an nc750x should get one for about that price and is frugal on fuel and should be insurable for a newbie Edited February 5, 2023 by MikeHorton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorky Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I think @bonio has summed up your options very precisely. The only bit I would add is that there is no such thing as a "sports tourer", that is all salesman hype. I know because I tried to find one for many years, and it was a costly excercise. A true tourer will never handle like a sports bike, and a sports bike will never be truly suitable as a tourer. The two elements just don't mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_M Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I can confirm the BMW R1200GS is a fabulous bike for touring but is does have weight issues at below walking pace, and the high seating position may be a little disconcerting when you out your foot down and the floor isn’t where you expected it to be (yes, I dropped my fully loaded bike, with pillion, in exactly at standstill. Good news, engine crash bars and my pillion just “stepped off” it). An alternative at the high end price would be a BMW R1200RS (with luggage). I test rode one before buying my GS and nearly bought one instead. In your mid-range price bracket is the Triumph Tiger1050. I did three tours in Europe with mine. Highly recommended, and my pillion really loved the high seating position. With hindsight I wish I hadn’t sold mine so soon. At the lower end you’re in the realm of optimism when it comes to reliability. I’d only look at Honda VFR800’s in this price bracket (I may be biased). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith1200rs Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I would suggest the BMW RT rather than the GS. Having ridden the GS/R/RS and RT and owned the R and now RT I can never understand the popularity of the GS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonio Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I've also searched and searched for a sports tourer and I reckon the MV Turismo is only the bike that comes close to fitting the description. But no-one buys an MV for cheap, reliable biking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonio Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 minute ago, keith1200rs said: I would suggest the BMW RT rather than the GS. Having ridden the GS/R/RS and RT and owned the R and now RT I can never understand the popularity of the GS. Never had a go on an RT. They look so lardy, I guess it's put me off. But owners say they're amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_M Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, bonio said: Never had a go on an RT. They look so lardy, I guess it's put me off. But owners say they're amazing. That’s exactly the reason I went for the GS rather than the RT. A couple of mates have RT’s and assure me they’re brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 6 minutes ago, bonio said: But owners say they're amazing. They are Honestly it really is the best bike I have ever owned They look lardy but in actual fact its 20cm wider than my FJR at the mirrors and is only about 20kg heavier but its actually easier and lighter to to ride than the FJR it handles so much better too although it doesn't have the power of the FJR that thing was a missile in comparison 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_M Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 3 minutes ago, Stu said: They are Honestly it really is the best bike I have ever owned They look lardy but in actual fact its 20cm wider than my FJR at the mirrors and is only about 20kg heavier but its actually easier and lighter to to ride than the FJR it handles so much better too although it doesn't have the power of the FJR that thing was a missile in comparison THE FJR* is a lardbucket. Quick in a straight line but awful handling, and cumbersome at low speeds (walking pace). T getting above that bar is not much of a challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, Steve_M said: THE FJR* is a lardbucket. Quick in a straight line but awful handling, and cumbersome at low speeds (walking pace). T getting above that bar is not much of a challenge. That's a good point well presented 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_M Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 10 minutes ago, Stu said: That's a good point well presented I bought based on reports of reliability and owner satisfaction and a brief test ride. I joined the owners forum and reading “they can surprise sports bikes riders” always made me cringe. Photos from Col de Tourmelet and Cadwell Park (Hopp Rider Training, A group). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith1200rs Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 37 minutes ago, bonio said: Never had a go on an RT. They look so lardy, I guess it's put me off. But owners say they're amazing. Weighs no more than the GS and less than the GSA. I have the smaller "sports" screen which improves the profile a little, I think 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukesft Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 Thanks for all in the insight guys! Much appreciated. Very new to this all. Just some context in 6ft1, about 83kg and active lad so not too worried about weight but do want something fun to ride. Only concern with most of these options is insurance cost as one of the reasons I’ve been looking 6-800cc mark as I’m 24 and literally got my license yesterday. thanks again for all the options but any idea of bikes that can do the same with slightly smaller engines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonio Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 (edited) Ah insurance. Yes, you get stung for the first year. A BMW R1200RT is insurance group 11 (out of 17). For comparison, the MT07 is group 11 too. It might be that, even though they're both in the same group, the RT is significantly more to insure because of the bigger engine size. If so, then you're going to need a bike with a smaller engine. The issue is that you need some decent power to tour with pillion... Overtaking fully loaded with pillion on an MT07 is going to take a lot of forward planning. I'd also guess that the suspension is going to be working a fair way beyond what it was designed for. Not a recipe for having fun. You might consider a naked like a GSX-S750. I've not ridden one, so this isn't a recommendation. Nakeds aren't great for touring, but many have toured on them, and they often deliver a lot of power - in this case 112bph - from smaller engines. Sports bikes do this even better, but don't expect your pillion to be too happy. As it happens, the GSX-S750 is also insurance group 11. It would be interesting to get quotes for all three bikes and compare them. Then at least you'd get an idea of what sort of bike is going to be affordable. If all else fails you could ride a 650 for a year and then move up to a bigger bike that you could tour with more comfortably. Let us know how you get on. Edited February 5, 2023 by bonio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukesft Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 Thanks Bonio, okay with that in mind. Let’s say my pillion won’t be touring with me but will hop on for the odd 1/2 hour ride (so need the ability but not necessarily the comfort/power) and wouldn’t be ridden fully loaded with her. what would you recommend then? Fully loaded, great bike I can do thousands of miles on that won’t cost the earth. I will check these quotes out too, the tracer came in around £600 which didn’t seem too bad - oversea riding and pillion always takes it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_M Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 51 minutes ago, lukesft said: Thanks Bonio, okay with that in mind. Let’s say my pillion won’t be touring with me but will hop on for the odd 1/2 hour ride (so need the ability but not necessarily the comfort/power) and wouldn’t be ridden fully loaded with her. what would you recommend then? Fully loaded, great bike I can do thousands of miles on that won’t cost the earth. I will check these quotes out too, the tracer came in around £600 which didn’t seem too bad - oversea riding and pillion always takes it up. It’s possible to tour on most bikes. I toured solo on a 600cc Bandit and would (old, damaged joints permitting) happily tour in my SV650 solo. Both have more than enough get up and go for that purpose. My Bandit could accommodate my pillion easily (our first date was me taking her out on the bike). It’s rare when riding to need masses of power - more is not necessarily better, or even necessary. In your shoes I’d be looking at the Honda CB650, possibly a later Honda VFR800 (both standard and Crossrunner) or equivalents from other manufacturers. As a fan of the VFR that would be my first choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 I suppose one of the other questions which I haven't seen posted is what is your budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukesft Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 yes apologies - ideally under £5k but could stretch to £7k as an absolute max but would need that to have panniers etc. I assume I can get something reliable and nice for that kind of budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeHorton Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Kawasaki er6 or older versys 650 mat be worth a look too get your skills up for a season and your premiums down then maybe upgrade that way you don't break the bank in year 1. You won't really lose anything on a decent used cared for bike when you sell it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Another thing to be mindful of is that if you are doing two up touring a lot of panniers aren't that big! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_M Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 A quick search of Biketrader for Hondas from 600cc to 800cc up to £5,500 (negotiable?) reveals a number of NC750’s and a couple of VFR Crossrunner, plus a VFR800X with aftermarket panniers. Any would be good for your purposes. EG. Crossrunner 1 Crossrunner 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_M Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, Stu said: Another thing to be mindful of is that if you are doing two up touring a lot of panniers aren't that big! My bugbear… I had to discount a number of bikes for that reason (I bought the Tiger for solo touring but my good lady enjoyed touring so much I had to buy a. Bike with more luggage). However, he did mention that touring would be solo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, Steve_M said: My bugbear… I had to discount a number of bikes for that reason (I bought the Tiger for solo touring but my good lady enjoyed touring so much I had to buy a. Bike with more luggage). However, he did mention that touring would be solo. It always starts solo till the missus enjoys it then it's game over I have discounted a lot of bikes due to luggage capacity 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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