What's the attraction of Royal Enfield?

[IndigoJo]

I've been watching videos on YouTube about Royal Enfield bikes which seem to have improved a lot in quality this century; not that long ago they were generally described as unreliable throwbacks. But why are all of them so underpowered for their engine size? Their 350s put out 20bhp; the 650s put out 47. Even the new Himalayan/Guerrilla bikes are 450cc but around 40bhp.

 

Why would you buy a bike like this? Especially the 650 which has a power output normally seen on 400-450cc bikes which have a lower road tax rate. Some bikes sold as 400s are actually 395cc or thereabouts and they have a lower rate still - £55 instead of £117. I know they're more expensive new but you can get secondhand ones for less than a new Enfield.

 

I know the 350 range is cheap(ish), but the 650 isn't, and some of these YouTubers talk as if the Enfield is for a different class of motorcyclist - it's a gentleman's bike and if you want to do 70mph on a motorway because the destination is more important than the journey then you're not the sort of person we want in our little club; a peculiar attitude given it's nothing luxurious, it's a cheap Indian bike.

[Simon Davey]

It seems you already know the answer. 

It's not always about the power. 

Some people just like the bikes. 

[RideWithStyles]

Never believe any vid,promo, advertisement, anything from the manufacturer or paid for in any shape or form even the reviews.

 

If I will be to the point- 

if you want the fastest thing- dont bother.

if you want the best handling of its class-don’t bother.

if you want great brakes- don’t bother.

if you want the cheapest running for anything like service,pcp, parts or long services etc with owt with money-don’t bother.

if you want the best built bike- don’t bother. 

If you want the best spec bike- don’t bother.

if you want the most modern building it’s made in, but apart from the engine design is made to feel and look old but (based on old ideas ) but a new building factory- go a head.
if you want still oldschool painting (hand pin stripes)- go ahead.

if you are ok with old school frame biased design, tyres sizes&type while tubed (for most specs off memory - then go ahead.
if you want hipster or looks pleasing at any none biker while parked up but at 12 ft while rolling to a biker then go a head.

if you want to wear a piss pot, glasses and casual clothing- go head.

 

[Gerontious]

Young lad I know has recently bought one, when we had a chat about it I told him that he should consider two things. Number one that his dealership is a good one and Number two that he would need to change his mind set, as he was coming from a fairly new restricted Yamaha Diversion. He lives in Lancashire so has easy access to some lovely back roads. doesn't commute. never has any need to use motorways. And (unusually) isn't really into the whole fast as possible all the time style of riding that's the the thing for younger riders. He just wants a fun bike that he can ride locally on and is a bit different. None of his mates/peers ride bikes. Anyway.. a couple of months on and he really enjoys it. and that is all that matters. How he might feel this time next year, well thats another question.

 

Apparently the insurance was significantly less than his Yam.

 

 

Im pretty sure that last year one of the publications did a build quality test and incredibly given its rather poor historical reputation the Indian Enfield.. these new ones came top.

The owner has poured a shed load of cash into upgrading the factory and (I think) the design studio is based in the UK. Certainly there is a reason why these newer RE's are very popular... and its not all about the price. And new buyers don't carry the baggage that us oldies have thinking back to the original Indian Enfileds that were effectively built with 1950s technology.

Edited August 4, 2024 by Gerontious

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Didn't FortNine do a test on oil drained from the first 500 mile service which showed how well engines are built and RE came out very well? 

 

 

[curlylegend]

42 minutes ago, Gerontious said:

thinking back to the original Indian Enfileds that were effectively built with 1970s technology.

I thought it was more like 50's technology !

[Gerontious]

2 minutes ago, curlylegend said:

I thought it was more like 50's technology !

 

hardly matters.. 50s 70s - still ancient.

[curlylegend]

1 minute ago, Gerontious said:

 

hardly matters.. 50s 70s - still ancient.

Agreed !

[Capt Sisko]

Part of the problem in misunderstanding the RE 650 is that you're assuming the bigger the engine, the more horse power it has to produce. That's generally true when it comes to sports bikes, but on others low down torque, a relaxed & easy riding or just how the thing looks are equally important. The 650 Interceptor has also been designed to make 47bhp thus making it A2 compliant and thus making available to a wider market. Like many mid cc bikes that do the same they could easily produce more power, but then they probably wouldn't sell so many. Royal Enfield in general also appeal to those who like the classic 'British Single / Twin' styling but don't want the oil leaks, 6v electrics and the will it / won't it start question. As for the price a Honda CB500F (also A2 compliant) and many similar bikes are a similar £6k.

 

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Edited August 7, 2024 by Capt Sisko

[RideWithStyles]

The engine is designed and built in a brand new factory but has keeping with old views and ways which I said. Mostly designed for torque and easy going nature.

the frame is British bdesigned and specs by brits which are RE owned of Harris and ex triumph engineers.

it’s designed for other people, than jap owners and Italian racers. 
the other competitors in spirit are moto guzzi v7, Ducati scramber (pushing the ideal), and a few Chinese things.

 

they are vastly different to many other bikes when released years ago just before the hipster stuff took off, right bike at the right time with loads of promos to help it.

 

it was one of the few bikes I was looking at years ago but a good few negatives didn’t make it worth it for me. Bad bike no, just that you have to be the right person for that bike.

[jr71]

for me its the looks and ease of maintenance.

im in my 6th decade of life now and only ride for pleasure and in good weather. and i have no desire to be overtaking every vehicle i encounter anymore.

i also enjoy doing my own servicing and Enfields are very easy to service.

if 350 classic had a bit more power, i would probably own one, such a pretty bike. 

[S-Westerly]

My Guzzi dealer also deals in Royal Enfields and they aren't bad bikes to look at. There's a  a guy (admittedly perhaps a bit of a knob) on a Guzzi forum who is constantly bitching about his Guzzi but forever singing the praises of his RE. Horses for courses I think.

[RideWithStyles]

Enfields (and the new ones) ain’t perfect. the very short service intervals, terrible welds, weird and old tyre size and tubed can be a negative which was Indian dictation. Some basic design and back up for parts are an issue but I’m fairly sure that will improve, even 3rd party stuff might come through. Great work and respect for Enfield to put mass commitment/money making a new engine and manufacturing factory for it.

 

guzzis have bags of charm but the odd and weak part can really let you down. there is the still seriously poor dealer supply issue for parts to this day unless you live in Italy. If they or better yet if the parent group with they vast amount of money could be bothered to improve it and not piss around with other aspects of the business this would make more money without being a long standing industry joke, bloody Italians

[IndigoJo]

@RideWithStyles Terrible welds? Which bits of the bike aren't stuck together properly?

[bud]

I think you have to remember that their biggest market is India. What most people want from a bike there is very different to the average UK rider.

Poor roads and bad fuel, mean outright horse power is not so important. This also happily coincides with the A2 market in Europe.

[RideWithStyles]

18 hours ago, IndigoJo said:

@RideWithStyles Terrible welds? Which bits of the bike aren't stuck together properly?

Didn’t say not stuck together, then they wouldn’t be welds. 

[IndigoJo]

51 minutes ago, RideWithStyles said:

Didn’t say not stuck together, then they wouldn’t be welds. 

But what did you mean then?

[JRH]

6 hours ago, IndigoJo said:

But what did you mean then?

The welds are not smooth and regular. There is weld splatter on the surrounding metal. They are perfectly safe, well apart from the side stand*, just don’t look nice.

 

* I seem to recall that there were some where the side stand came off but can’t remember if the weld gave way or the frame tube split.

[rob m]

Been round to see my mate Pete this afternoon. Fantastic engineer and restorer of bikes. He has a mint RD250LC which I dribbled over. 

 

He also has a RE Interceptor 650. After three years of ownership he loves it. Never had a single problem with it after 18k miles from new. Maybe he's lucky. 

[RideWithStyles]

Thanks JRH, as he said indigo.

yes they have the odd problem, oversight and quirks with some having no probs and some having a few but far safer bet to go with RE than a Chinese built and overlord owner for middle to long term ownership.

 

i could of bought a RE but too many points went agains it for me, is it a bad bike? no.
Is there a better all round bike? For me there was at the time, but for someone else Maybe not but that does depend on what you want, not want or bothered about. Forget marketing bs as a lot of people fall for.

positive and negative points should be highlighted and reviewed with that persons use case then a proper answer can be found.

again their generally isn’t a bad bike (ignoring the Chinese stuff) , just a poorly chosen one. 

 

 

 

[Throttled]

A friend has got a Classic, the really retro one. After decades of biking, a retro bike, that is light and cheap and has good reliability, for use as an occasional fair weather ride out, has definite appeal. I got a 24 hour test ride of a 650 Interceptor, and a shorter test ride on a Scram, both of which again would make a fine occasional bike, but I ride too often and too far for them to work for me.

Edited August 8, 2024 by Throttled

[muldoon74]

My attraction to RE is initially the price. Then various reviews (owners and usual suspects) talk about build quality being better than expected. Probably due to perceptions regarding Indian built. 

 

BMW 310s, Triumph 400s and a few others are all built in India. 

 

I think the new generation of RE, Himalayan 450, Guerilla (same platform etc) shows they are growing and advancing technologically. 

 

Funnily enough though, one of the things putting me off getting one after I pass my test is the dash. Other than the Int650 they look like just daft wee round things. Don't like them (the dash/instrument setup).

 

Will still look and get a few test rides in though, I could probably overcome the look  of the instrument panel! 

[angrybear]

On 04/08/2024 at 16:27, IndigoJo said:

I've been watching videos on YouTube about Royal Enfield bikes which seem to have improved a lot in quality this century; not that long ago they were generally described as unreliable throwbacks. But why are all of them so underpowered for their engine size? Their 350s put out 20bhp; the 650s put out 47. Even the new Himalayan/Guerrilla bikes are 450cc but around 40bhp.

 

Why would you buy a bike like this? Especially the 650 which has a power output normally seen on 400-450cc bikes which have a lower road tax rate. Some bikes sold as 400s are actually 395cc or thereabouts and they have a lower rate still - £55 instead of £117. I know they're more expensive new but you can get secondhand ones for less than a new Enfield.

 

I know the 350 range is cheap(ish), but the 650 isn't, and some of these YouTubers talk as if the Enfield is for a different class of motorcyclist - it's a gentleman's bike and if you want to do 70mph on a motorway because the destination is more important than the journey then you're not the sort of person we want in our little club; a peculiar attitude given it's nothing luxurious, it's a cheap Indian bike.

For the same reason that I Ride a Harley, Modern sports bikes are piss boring at legal speeds you need to be doing 3 figures before it gives the rider any real feedback.

but a bike like that on a twisty B road needs to be "ridden" & will put a huge smile on your face at 50-60 mph

[Throttled]

The underpowered Fiats I have owned, have all been fun to drive, as they make you drive. I think underpowered bikes like RE do the same. I wonder if, or when they will bring out a 1000cc, 100+hp bike? Or is their main market in India and the east not really set up for bikes like that, with busy, poor roads and wondering animals? 

[RideWithStyles]

Agree and Nailed it there Throttled .

its the term is a shite bike/car a underrated/cool thing cos you can use it to its full capacity and not land yourself in the shite.

case in points:

fiat panda and 4x4, slow to get to speed to modern turbo beasts (engine will last sooo much longer than say ford EcoBoom engines) but eager to engage to rag the little box as fast as its merry little wheels go and through tight sections of back roads without lifting off is priceless to a yob is a golf or polo that can’t fit.

Soft suspension and tyres absorb all manner of uk roads come sun or snow, 40mpg,105mph.

 

audi rs6 std and tuned- mighty fast at low and high speeds and hugely capable, fun toy but ban and prison time in less than a few seconds so worryingly stressful if you value your license and bank account.

stiff suspension, bushes and linkages and tyres that is borderline ridiculous.

drinks loads of fuel, oil and kills gearboxes/transmissions. 26mpg if your coasting down hill all day but 16mpg is normal.

 

as much as the rs6 was fun for drag race at the lights and some motorway sections being less policed, its not something I’d go and get for myself…unless I won the lottery and used it as the third or fourth car.

the panda 4x4 on the other hand, had for 4 years and it was a proper laugh…-

and do it again.

Edited August 9, 2024 by RideWithStyles