Motorbike Show. Moto Morini

[Capt Sisko]

On 07/12/2024 at 11:13, Stu said:

I'm pretty sure back in the day when the Japanese started making bikes the reliability was very questionable! Now look at them!

I do remember that era, well not the first Jap bikes, but certainly the ones from the early / mid 70s and there was no question of reliability. Sure there were the odd problem or two, Honda cam chain & tensioners were crap, Kawasaki spark plugs could foul up and Suzuki's had their Regulator / Rectifier issues, but overall the Japanese bike were way more reliable than the accient Brits they were competing against. Despite my dislike for things Chinese, I don't doubt their reliability, well their engines anyway. Many are recycled older Jap engines, reworked Rotax or similar. What I do doubt is the long term availability of spares. There has been a thread very recently about the unavailability a dashboard for a Horwin CR6. One would hope that Moto Morini, who are playing on the Italian connection are better, but buying a 'pure' Chinese bike is too much of a risk. As Old-codger said, pile them high sell them cheap and sod the back up.

 

One other thought. The list price for a basic X-Cape 650 is £6399. A quick search on Google and there's a dealer offering a brand new one for £5480. What will they be worth in three years time with 15 or 20k on the clock?

Edited December 8, 2024 by Capt Sisko

[Stu]

3 hours ago, JohnJive650 said:

China don't make a bike as good as any of the Japanese bikes 

 

When the Japanese bikes came into the UK, they were better than the British ones. 

 

I would not buy a Chinese bike. No dealer network and parts will be an issue. I'll stick to the best, which is Japanese 

I never said they did make them as good as Japanese bikes

 

I'm marely pointing out that the Japanese bikes of yesteryear where just as bad and people rebelled against those! 

 

They are getting better and better and I recon one day they will be competing 

 

7 minutes ago, Capt Sisko said:

I do remember that era, well not the first Jap bikes, but certainly the ones from the early / mid 70s and there was no question of reliability. Sure there were the odd problem or two, Honda cam chain & tensioners were crap, Kawasaki spark plugs could foul up and Suzuki's had their Regulator / Rectifier issues, but overall the Japanese bike were way more reliable than the accient Brits they were competing against. Despite my dislike for things Chinese, I don't doubt their reliability, well their engines anyway. Many are recycled older Jap engines, reworked Rotax or similar. What I do doubt is the long term availability of spares. There has been a thread very recently about the unavailability a dashboard for a Horwin CR6. One would hope that Moto Morini who are playing on the Italian connection are better, but buying a 'pure' Chinese bike is too much of a risk. As Old-codger said, pile them high sell them cheap and sod the back up.

 

One other though. The list price for a basic X-Cape 659 is £6399. A quick search on Google and there's a dealer offering brand new one for £5480. What will they be worth in three years time with 15 or 20k on the clock?

 

And there lies some of the issue! China is a throw away country! If it breaks they just replace it as everything is cheap enough 

 

They do need a better network and supply of spares so there is work to do in the area 

[Mickly]

I’d be surprised if the lack of aftermarket parts support lasts for long, it’s a very lucrative revenue stream, JLR makes more money from sales of aftermarket parts & servicing than it does from selling new cars ( or did when I left 6 years ago )

[S-Westerly]

We often end up with Chinese products on ships and in just about every single case they end up not fit for purpose. Last year 3 of our ships had to replace their actual lifeboats as the ones supplied started cracking. This is not acceptable. 

[JRH]

One of the big factors between Japanese and Chinese motor bikes is mind set.

Having worked with and for Japanese companies they do not like things to go wrong but if they do they find out why and correct it.

On the other hand having worked with Chinese it doesn’t seem to bother them at all. 

[RideWithStyles]

On 07/12/2024 at 16:05, Capt Sisko said:

Despite my dislike for things Chinese, I don't doubt their reliability, well their engines anyway. Many are recycled older Jap engines, reworked Rotax or similar. What I do doubt is the long term availability of spares. There has been a thread very recently about the unavailability a dashboard for a Horwin CR6. One would hope that Moto Morini, who are playing on the Italian connection are better, but buying a 'pure' Chinese bike is too much of a risk. As Old-codger said, pile them high sell them cheap and sod the back up.

 

One other thought. The list price for a basic X-Cape 650 is £6399. A quick search on Google and there's a dealer offering a brand new one for £5480. What will they be worth in three years time with 15 or 20k on the clock?

I had the Benelli, one of the better ones in “its still all Italian design parts and style” and finished at the factory but Chinese built engine, frame, paint, exhaust, loom, key, clocks and other bits sourced. Badly balanced after overly tight engine build has loosened up (so id doubt the engine), rust, bubbling, water retention, electrical problems.

you could tell which bits were more Italian side of thought and spec- Brakes, forks, handle bars, grips, shock, tyres (Pirelli). 
Dont get me wrong they will get at the same point of the euros and japs (maybe British too?) and catching up fast for life time product buying experience some point but it’s definitely not their yet.

 

for MM the problem is really really old engines even 10years ago, very oddly designed and set up of bike, terrible back up, well below average reliability etc so unless your a real hardcore enthusiast Thayer is no logical reason to buy one outside of Italy that was barely if not more expensive than Ducati monster and thou as much I like the look of MM there is no way id choose one over a second hand Duc M.

Edited December 9, 2024 by RideWithStyles

[Mawsley]

On 07/12/2024 at 16:14, Stu said:

I never said they did make them as good as Japanese bikes

 

I'm marely pointing out that the Japanese bikes of yesteryear where just as bad and people rebelled against those! 

 

They are getting better and better and I recon one day they will be competing 

 

 

And there lies some of the issue! China is a throw away country! If it breaks they just replace it as everything is cheap enough 

 

They do need a better network and supply of spares so there is work to do in the area 

People railed against ‘japcrap’ from a point of pure hypocrisy though - the British metal they were riding was leaking and falling apart on them as they rode.

 

Modern bikes have never been more reliable, whereas I’m yet to see a single decent Chinese bike that hasn’t collapsed to a pile of rust before two years are out or the company provide a decent parts and servicing back-up.

[Stu]

25 minutes ago, Mawsley said:

People railed against ‘japcrap’ from a point of pure hypocrisy though - the British metal they were riding was leaking and falling apart on them as they rode.

 

Modern bikes have never been more reliable, whereas I’m yet to see a single decent Chinese bike that hasn’t collapsed to a pile of rust before two years are out or the company provide a decent parts and servicing back-up.

 

2013 17k

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-details/202410094988063?sort=year-asc&searchId=8149f8b7-2e7d-49bb-8321-8e410b8a2ee8&advertising-location=at_bikes&make=CFMOTO&postcode=hu114bs&fromsra 

 

bit more than 2 years old I can't see any rust in the pics OK it looks a little rough but so do a lot of the "better" brands at this age 

[Mawsley]

12 hours ago, Stu said:

 

2013 17k

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-details/202410094988063?sort=year-asc&searchId=8149f8b7-2e7d-49bb-8321-8e410b8a2ee8&advertising-location=at_bikes&make=CFMOTO&postcode=hu114bs&fromsra 

 

bit more than 2 years old I can't see any rust in the pics OK it looks a little rough but so do a lot of the "better" brands at this age 

Fairings hide a multiple of sins though, eh. As do advert photos. 
 

And it’d be a very brave person to buy one of those with 23k on the clock given that the predicted lifespan of a CF engine is 20k. 
 

And then there’s aftercare and spares - simple things like keys and emails - video below

 

While I don’t doubt they’re likely to dominate the leccy market, I’ll not be buying one. Their culture doesn’t value the customer, the notion of customer service is alien, I’ve spent the last 14 years rubbing alongside it amazed and appalled at the lack of shit they give. 
 

 

 

[RideWithStyles]

On 13/12/2024 at 18:18, Stu said:

 

2013 17k

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-details/202410094988063?sort=year-asc&searchId=8149f8b7-2e7d-49bb-8321-8e410b8a2ee8&advertising-location=at_bikes&make=CFMOTO&postcode=hu114bs&fromsra 

 

bit more than 2 years old I can't see any rust in the pics OK it looks a little rough but so do a lot of the "better" brands at this age 

My benelli did have the rust (all under the paint), terrible welds and poor metals plus a load of other problems, from the factory then the replacements 2nd and 3rd years on…..

Edited December 14, 2024 by RideWithStyles

[Fender1515]

The argument of old British V the Jap invasion of the 70's is an interesting one, made even move pertinent after the recent passing of a biker pal that was a close friend for many many years and one of a group of five of us, all into our bikes during this time.  The three of the remaining group met up at the funeral, at the wake, we shared so many memories from "back in the day".

Many of them, based on trips we had done, bonkers stuff, deciding on a Thursday night to ride to France  on the weekend, but a lot of the laughs where around working on the bikes Friday night in Marks fathers garage, rebuilding clutches, carbs, front or rear brakes, sos we had half a chance of getting there and back. OK so BritBikes broke down, we knew that, fixing them was all part of the  vibe. Would we have had the same vibe if we all had JAP bikes, maybe, but the tech was relatively basic on the Brits we could and did work it out, mostly. Would I take one on now as a daily ride, hell no, but "back in the day"!!!