Bike market in freefall

[Capt Sisko]

2 hours ago, DJP said:

What I really want is a modern UJM, but there's nothing like that made:

I know exactly what you mean, even the 'street' models look like something out of Transformers. That type of styling does nothing for me. The closest I think we have to a UJM is one if the bikes that started it, a Kawasaki 900!

[bud]

I noticed Mutt motorcycles has gone into administration.

I know they were selling bikes mainly the the youngsters and hipster market. But they built some cool looking bikes. That always got good reviews.

I think they were based in Birmingham.

[Fiddlesticks]

49 minutes ago, bud said:

I noticed Mutt motorcycles has gone into administration.

I know they were selling bikes mainly the the youngsters and hipster market. But they built some cool looking bikes. That always got good reviews.

I think they were based in Birmingham.

That's a shame. They weren't the cheapest, but very nice looking things. If I was looking for a 125, a Mutt would be on the shortlist.

[bonio]

2 hours ago, Mawsley said:

I got rid of the Africa Twin because it was dull to ride despite being a really competent bike.

Yup. "Competent accountant" is a great recommendation. "Competent bike" just isn't. 

[Fender1515]

Being a proper old Git, when I look back at my early biking days, which started in 1967, I was 12 years old, me and many of my pals wanted to get into School Boy scrambling, I/we found ways of earning money, caddying at the local golf club, finding almost lost golf balls and selling them to the proshop, milk rounds at the weekend. 

With our £10> £15 we would buy BSA Bantams, ex-GPO or what ever we could find, all we needed was one of the guys who's Dad was into mechanics to help us put them back together after we stiped them, the mechanics where very strait forward, we all learned of each other. 

It became a bonding thing. To be honest we didn't win  many races, the JAP bikes where faster, but it didn't really matter, bruised and covered in mud, just great times.

This carried on into our teens, passed our tests, on our apprenticeship wages, we got speed twins, starfirers, AJs' somethings, most Friday nights 3 to 6 of us would be in a pals garage fixing and felting for the weekend run out.

Owning and running bikes cost the square root of bugger all, everybody owed some body else some thing, brake shoes, battery cables, head bolts, petrol, money, it was a club with out a label, but it was a very strong bond.

 

I have just returned from a business trip down Souf, and stayed over with some one of my old biker buddies, we met up, and this will come as a surprise, in the pub,  with two other old gits from back in the days, 

We didn't talk politics,  we did talk Rugby, most of the time talk was about dem days, do you remember when Mark etc, and of course we didn't, we all had a different version of the tale,  but what we did all remember was the vibe, the bond.

I am still a member of a couple of bike groups I joined since moving up Norf, which I enjoy, but I often reflect after a meet-up, on the difference in  the conversation, banter. 

Modern'ish bikes just don't bring, need,  the same hands on stuff, and when they need fixing it's down to the garage to plug it into the tinternet, we don't get to call out Dez, who knows about the eletrickery stuff, or one of the Mark's who does carbs, we don't need. do the Pal's stuff. 

Yes we talk about the rideouts, the best tyres Iv'e add stuff, but,  for me it misses the people stuff of the Friday nights, we got them fixed, some way some how, mostly! And that's what made our bike worlds special, back in the Day, our bikes where front and centre of our friendships our lives.

Times & technology, change, it is inevitable,   but for me,  we have lost chapter and verse on what bikers where all about.

 

 

 

[veracocha]

As a newish rider my experience of getting back into motorcycles has been interesting. I too started in 1979 on a DT50 moving onto a DT175 shortly after, that's where it ended. Fast forward to 2022 and the hurdles getting through my full licence was in itself off-putting. Not financially, but just seemed so many ways to fail which seemed like the objective of the establishment. It never seemed like they wanted me to get there. Obviously I did and out I went buying new bikes. Zontes 125 as a starter. CF moto MT650 (I loved that bike) then a Tracer 7GT. Only a month ago I moved onto a new F900XR. So, four new bikes in two years means I'm doing my bit for the cause. In my learning though I'm cynical about the way manufacturers see the motorcyclist. Take KTM for instance and their subscription policy. There is nothing more that would put me off buying a motorcycle than one that I was expected to continually fund the manufacturer during ownership having paid my money up-front. They deserve to go down the pan. 

[Mawsley]

KTM is the EA Sports of bikes. I’d love to see them go tits up too. 

[smallfrowne]

 

16 minutes ago, Mawsley said:

KTM is the EA Sports of bikes. I’d love to see them go tits up too. 

I wouldn't haha. Just in case I need any parts. Mind if it came to anything serious, like cam related, I would probably just put it straight in the bin anyway. them parts are pricy.

[Blackholesun]

If you include the Uber drivers I've never seen so many bikes on the road but for proper bikes culturally it's just not a thing over here to ride a motorbike and all parents including me will say get your car licence !

 

I bet if you go down to your local bike school you won't find my people in their 20's learning to ride .

 

Id also never buy a new bike would always go second hand 

Edited March 14 by Blackholesun

[RideWithStyles]

21 hours ago, smallfrowne said:

 

I wouldn't haha. Just in case I need any parts. Mind if it came to anything serious, like cam related, I would probably just put it straight in the bin anyway. them parts are pricy.

Wouldn’t matter There would still be parts supply availability for many years to come and tier party ones will fill in too.

thought as you said if its the chocolate cam you’d be better of (make more money) just selling the bike (now) or for parts.

 

i don’t want KTM to fail as a whole, have another chance with different management. id like to see the owners -read to the upper management (not the parent group though I think they need to take some blame) to go to jail for absolute negligence of running a business, making employees and suppliers in the terrible position that they have been put in due to their incompetence.

 

3 hours ago, Blackholesun said:

If you include the Uber drivers I've never seen so many bikes on the road but for proper bikes culturally it's just not a thing over here to ride a motorbike and all parents including me will say get your car licence !

 

I bet if you go down to your local bike school you won't find my people in their 20's learning to ride .

 

Id also never buy a new bike would always go second hand 

thats the thing for the system (gov two faced approach) they have made and our country before other aspects- it makes less sense to go down the bike route unless it’s for pure dedication or as a means to get around temporarily.

 

Over the years i have bought 2cars new and 1bike, and to a point been good but you really pay out a lot for it. 

5 cars and 4bikes (current one is now 20yrs old) that we bought wisely and have been very used/old examples, never costed more than 3k (prior to px) all the while it’s worked out well for us.
The biggest sting that wasn’t consumables and the most ridiculous was a door handle switch (under £10part) that costed us well over £300 to fix for a golf. Still less than a month payment you could say but we never liked it and would never get another one.

Edited March 14 by RideWithStyles

[Shasel]

I think the problem is bikes are not easy/cheap anymore. I was desperate for a bike when I was young as a cheap way to get freedom, it never happened for a variety of reasons but I wanted one and the market seemed alive. There were lots of very desirable bikes and they were not expensive to buy or run. I know because I looked. Now for a variety of reasons bikes are expensive to buy and can be incredibly expensive to run. My daughter was quatoed almost half the value of the bike for insurance for her 125. You need to really want to do it for that to make sense.

[onesea]

28 minutes ago, Shasel said:

I think the problem is bikes are not easy/cheap anymore. I was desperate for a bike when I was young as a cheap way to get freedom, it never happened for a variety of reasons but I wanted one and the market seemed alive. There were lots of very desirable bikes and they were not expensive to buy or run. I know because I looked. Now for a variety of reasons bikes are expensive to buy and can be incredibly expensive to run. My daughter was quatoed almost half the value of the bike for insurance for her 125. You need to really want to do it for that to make sense.

The insurance issue can be the same for cars.  
 

However allot of young drivers start with insurance for a year or 2 on parents insurance.  It’s just when the value of bike is relatively low it looks horrendous.

[Granty]

Hi.

Im eighty one and a lot late to motor cycling. Im currently riding a Honda CB125R. This coming September I will need to compleat my fourth CBT as Im on L plates and have no interest in trying to pass the expensive and complicated riding test.

 

I've had four bikes and three were brand new. I find it frustating that Im restricted to 125cc. On the flat the Honda will easily do 70mph, however when I come to a hill or into wind Im holding traffic up behind me and Im regularly tail gated, that puts me and the other motorists around me in uninvited danger.

 

The legislators are not going to listen to me if I ask, please can I have a bit more HP to get me out of danger. They like some other well known eco zealots are only interested in EVs.

 

So Im thinking of getting a trike as my next new buy, because I passed my car test years ago that means no L plates, no CBT, motorway riding and having the company of a pillion passenger.

 

I watched a recent MAG video and it was obvious whats on the horizon for us bikers if we roll over and let it happen. I want to feel the fun of having something hot and throbbing between me legs and not something with no gears and the sound of my wifes hoover.

 

Regards. Allen.

 

[bud]

16 minutes ago, Granty said:

Hi.

Im eighty one and a lot late to motor cycling. Im currently riding a Honda CB125R. This coming September I will need to compleat my fourth CBT as Im on L plates and have no interest in trying to pass the expensive and complicated riding test.

 

I've had four bikes and three were brand new. I find it frustating that Im restricted to 125cc. On the flat the Honda will easily do 70mph, however when I come to a hill or into wind Im holding traffic up behind me and Im regularly tail gated, that puts me and the other motorists around me in uninvited danger.

 

The legislators are not going to listen to me if I ask, please can I have a bit more HP to get me out of danger. They like some other well known eco zealots are only interested in EVs.

 

So Im thinking of getting a trike as my next new buy, because I passed my car test years ago that means no L plates, no CBT, motorway riding and having the company of a pillion passenger.

 

I watched a recent MAG video and it was obvious whats on the horizon for us bikers if we roll over and let it happen. I want to feel the fun of having something hot and throbbing between me legs and not something with no gears and the sound of my wifes hoover.

 

Regards. Allen.

 

We used to ride with an old couple who had a Harley trike for that very reason. The could go out together, and it would sit happily on the motorway.

In Europe the three wheeled scooters that you can drive on a car licence are very popular.

[billysugger]

@Granty, that's the reason I  went for an older 125 for my CBT and MOD1/2.

The 1980s Hondas were twin cylinder, but had maybe 18bhp, that meant i could do motorway speeds without much effort, and I  proved that they were legally able to be used for the tests as they did not break the 16kw ratio rules. As to a another topic on this forum, it was ideal for the speed/ swerve test

[Blackholesun]

8 hours ago, Granty said:

Hi.. I want to feel the fun of having something hot and throbbing between me legs 

 

That's what Mrs BHS says

[Tinkicker]

9 hours ago, billysugger said:

@Granty, that's the reason I  went for an older 125 for my CBT and MOD1/2.

The 1980s Hondas were twin cylinder, but had maybe 18bhp, that meant i could do motorway speeds without much effort, and I  proved that they were legally able to be used for the tests as they did not break the 16kw ratio rules. As to a another topic on this forum, it was ideal for the speed/ swerve test

 

 

15 on a really good day and on a press prepared example with polished ports....

Edited March 14 by Tinkicker

[billysugger]

My 1980 125 t2, 17 bhp 12.4kw at 11500rpm

[Tinkicker]

I stand corrected...

 

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_cb125t 80.htm

[Grandads Mug]

Haven't read the whole forum but might this have something to do with the move to ban the sale of ICE powered bikes in 2030? A quite authoritarian move that.... No, best not start me on the great climate change hoax.

 

Anyway, why bother getting into bikes, or carrying on with them, when you'll have the fun taken right out of them in the next few years is the question that many might be asking.

[JTDG]

I wanted to ride ever since I was a kid.
 

I paid £3k for my cb125f, I pay £30 a month insurance. Parked in a brick garage, and we live rurally.

 

Exact same bike in Liverpool where I used to live was £400 a month insurance. That’s more in a year than the bike is worth. 
 

Bike theft and the costs associated with it was by a mile the number 1 reason why I didn’t learn to ride down there. 

[Throttled]

I think bikes got too expensive and the wave of Chinese and Indian cheaper, but nicely designed and well made bikes will literally ride to the rescue.

[Grandads Mug]

Just as a point of interest, the big three tractor makers have also all announced a decline in sales of around 30% over the last quarter, a  quite meaningless coincidence I'm sure!

 

 

Edited March 18 by Grandads Mug

[ChrisBiggsUK]

Interestingly, whenever I go to the dealer for a chat or a catchup, there is always a new cohort of people doing their cbt.  There seems to be no shortage of people *wanting* to get on to two wheels.  Likewise, while yes new bike sales are down and that is problematic, according to Google more than 500,000 used bikes changed hands in 2023.

Cheap chinese bikes are everywhere.  I could walk into a dealer right now, slap down around £2,000 in cash and walk away with a new chinese bike.  I looked at insurance, and it would be (in my circumstances) slightly cheaper than my CG125 to get a, for example, keeway superlight.  Would that bike be as reliable, rugged, easy and cheap to maintain, and hold its value as well as, again for example, my CG125?  Probably not.  Hence why I went for a used bike instead of a new one as a new rider.  How many others, I wonder, do the same?  I get it, we need new bike sales to keep dealers afloat and to keep the industry going, but lets not ignore than more than half a million used bike transactions.  There is life in the old biking girl yet!

Insurance is the kicker though I agree.  I mentioned a while back about how a young lad from my Church was expressing interest in motorcycling and I talked him through everything, then it came to insurance, so we did a quote for him using the meerkat place and all his info, but my bike details, and his quote came in at more than £4,000 a year, which turned him off immediately even with my trying to reassure him that other bikes would give different quotes and that he should shop around, but even still, that initial more than 4k really, really soured him.  This is a shame as he was really eager.  

There is sadly nothing that can be done about insurance premiums and it does make me wonder whether all those inner city delivery riders are actually shelling out for insurance.  I mean, surely there isn't that much money to be made in delivery takeaway?  

Thinking here, and it may be something that is already done, but what if insurers offered lower premiums to new riders if a 'black box' were fitted to bikes. Like an insurance company supplied tracker.  They can see where you are going, what speeds you are doing and, more importantly, see where your bike is if it gets stolen so that it can be recovered without having to make a payout.  

These are just my thoughts while I slurp my mornings coffee and think about going out for a nice ride.

[RideWithStyles]

On 16/03/2025 at 21:51, Grandads Mug said:

Haven't read the whole forum but might this have something to do with the move to ban the sale of ICE powered bikes in 2030? A quite authoritarian move that.... No, best not start me on the great climate change hoax.

 

Anyway, why bother getting into bikes, or carrying on with them, when you'll have the fun taken right out of them in the next few years is the question that many might be asking.

So many layers to this whole issue.

enviro yes and no to a point, it’s a reduction

in co2 emissions mostly to a larger foot print of numbers but largely to do with fossil fuel dependence.

Yes it needs exotic metals and materials, not just EV cars but computers, ice engines and chassis, tools, specialist equipment needed them aswell many years ago and nobody complained about it), because it’s a bit of a start up, you need more than started but eventually when it’s a lot more common and when recycling these parts is wider spread the problem will be a lot less.

so really two main factors which is the same as Car evs have over the price is -charging and a
If biking is viewed as fun and social able and not as essential and even good transportation (alternative), the downward spiral it is going down then the one foot in the grave will eventually get nails in the coffin and the gov will gladly ignore any calls for change as its a tiny drop in the ocean of needs.

 
eventually everything will be tightened down and fun will not be on the agenda- its alternative transport.
Well if it’s got to be down to the fun factor? Tons of torque and loads of revs! Admittedly manufacturers are designing the style for a younger generation but i don’t believe they are there yet.

 

yes Chris I agree.

many don’t like the idea of big bother let alone insurances watching.
Problem being those boxes come at a money cost (purchasing, fitting, subscriptions, warranty etc) which the policy holder has to pay out for, packaging, requires a power source, and how many people come on this forum with problems of alarms and immobilisers etc alone, yada yada….problem being of how long do most people stick to a 125 for and want a parasite? Most not long and not at all.

 

insurance with delivery would legally be a business umbrella one, if not its an individual (self employed or off the books etc) to do and most will not state for work/business use as it will push the policy a lot higher.