j4ff Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Looks like the DSA havent thought this new test through.Swerving manouver in heavy rain .Failing for 1 kmhcrash test for this poor chap . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korben Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 A shame, and I feel sorry for the fella but.....If they said they will only do the swerve test perfect condition and someone passed, went out on the road and had to do a swerve in the rain and crashed then they would be slated for that.Instructors should have made the pupils aware of the changes that rain brings about and taught them how to control the bike in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Thats all well and good but if your not on a test with a minimum speed possibly you mat have been going slower?Oh and everyone has to deal with the fact that you may have to do the test in the rain, I did one of mine skidded on the emergency stop but didnt fail for it as examiner said it was controlled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 MCN are just making a big deal out the test... as the DSA stated, instructors/trainers need to make sure that the person is well enough trained to do what is necessary... whether this is actually in the rain, or somewhere there can throw down a load of water to simulate the conditions.Nothing to do with the test imo... and a manouvre that is good to know, especially in this country with the weather, and other stupid people on road u need to swerve to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Thats all well and good but if your not on a test with a minimum speed possibly you mat have been going slower?Oh and everyone has to deal with the fact that you may have to do the test in the rain, I did one of mine skidded on the emergency stop but didnt fail for it as examiner said it was controlled. I was failed for exactly that first time round I didnt fall off or anything Was your examiner female with a soft spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtotheJ Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Everyone saying that, "the pupil should be trained up to the standard needed" is bull. It takes huge amounts of time to become fully adapted to wet conditions and it is not always possible to practise these conditions, if at all possible. i think the minimum speed is crazy, surely the rider should be riding at what he/she feels comfortable with (within reason) as this is what they would be doing on the road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Im sure the DSA have changed the test after looking at accidents that have happened and how improvements can be made in testing to prevent these accidents happening, so I stand by what I said.If it takes longer to train, then so be it, but at the end of the day its to help the 'rider' be safer.The test is gonna get bad press, people are not gonna like it cos its harder and more expensive (due to increased training) to do.And as for the speed 30mph is nothing! And might be the speed you're doing when an obstacle appears in front of you, be it a car, bike or a child.People should stop being so negative and look at the postive side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 it does take time to adjust to wet weather, but the instructors should know this and trained the candidates to do it. i'm more bothered that they failed the other woman for being 1 km/h under the standard. how about introducing some leeway on these things. chances are the examiner would've passed her if she'd done everything else right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 on another note its up to the trainer to decide if the trainee is ready for test or not therefore the trainer should be training the trainee to the required standard and cover all situations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Stu.. i did not understand any of that... wasnt it what i said lol..sparky... i agree that there should be a margin to work too... not sure of the rules myself... is it exactly 31mph needed or anything over 30mph? If exactly 31mph thats a bit wrong and needs a margin either way, if its over 30mph then thats what the person should do. Another problem is that a lot of these training schools take on pupils for say a 3 day DAS course, and the test is booked and they expect you to be ready for this test. I know in my case I wasnt, but I couldnt cancel the test. Didnt do it in the end cos I didnt feel safe. How can they know that you're going to be ready or not? Will they rush training to offer cheap prices to clients? Lots of what ifs and variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtotheJ Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I completely agree about it being done to make riders safer (although im glad i passed mine when i did) but dont you think that a 30mph swerve in the wet is dangerous, shouldnt be practised due to the high likliehood of injuring yourself and therefore shouldnt be made to do it in the test in wet conditions? Isnt a swerve like this used in emergency situations and the likelihood of anyone coming off, whether it being a relatively new rider or a rider with years of experience, high when the road is wet and travelling at 30mph? i just think the compulsory speed is needless and examiners should use their discretion as was done with the emergency stop in the old test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOrange Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 i have to agree about that margin for error on the minimum speed - i very much doubt all speedo's on bikes are as accurate as an offical calibrated speed checking device, mind you im speaking from riding that ajs bike where the speedo decided to pick a number between 1mph and 100mph every 1-2seconds feel for that guy who done his arm in though, its bad enough failing (not that i did that either but one can imagine) - without ending up with your arm in a sling on the way to hospital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Ah well... least he got in Motorcycle News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOrange Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T180985 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 whilst it cant hurt making things a little more difficult to encourage more training perhaps car drivers need a stricter test also? or even part of the car test is to do a cbt to give them an idea of how venerable bike riders are and how much extra notice of the road you need to take? just a suggestion as ive now been knocked off twice by kids who looked like they recently passed and both of which didnt look before performing a maneuver... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Interesting I'm still sitting on the fence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Thats all well and good but if your not on a test with a minimum speed possibly you mat have been going slower?Oh and everyone has to deal with the fact that you may have to do the test in the rain, I did one of mine skidded on the emergency stop but didnt fail for it as examiner said it was controlled. I was failed for exactly that first time round I didnt fall off or anything Was your examiner female with a soft spot Erm dont alt females have a soft spot But no it was a man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumilio Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'd never argue with any extreme of training that was designed to make riding safer for even a single person. The problem I have with the new test is: 1) The new UK test was designed for adherence to EU-mandated standards (e.g., 50kph for the swerve manoeuvre ( ~31 mph) as opposed to 30 mph as per standard speed limits here in the UK). This is probably the single reason why the new test centres had to be built. This is retarded and will cost everyone reading this money in the long run to pay for the new and potentially unnecessary training centres, the increased "cost" of testing and training for riding motorbikes, and eventually potential decreased consumer demand for bikes and bike-related gear in the UK (resulting in increased cost and less choice to you for motorbikes and related gear). It will be interesting for example to see what sales for new 125cc bikes are this year compared to last year.2) I've never seen a claim, much less a piece of evidence, to suggest the new test is actually designed to increase safety. Increasing safety would obviously be fantastic; there is simply no evidence this test will do so by either design or happenstance.* The result will be precisely analogous to standardised testing in education - trainers will "teach to the test" leaving even less time to touch on things like cornering at speed.3) I think it is bordering on criminal negligence with the way the DSA has been allowed to fumble the schedule and implementation of the new test. Much higher cost of training, much lower availability of training, a national lapse in any training, disregard for the training industry, etc. etc.But that's just me. *please, someone, prove me wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akey Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Why should there be a margin if it was 30mph +/- 2 Mph its the same as saying the min required is 28 Mph!!!!!!!The speed has to be set at a limit to ensure everyone meets a min standard, that speed is 30 MPH.As others have said, this test was going to get a slating whatever happened and as usual MCN are jumping on any negative news they can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtotheJ Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Why should there be a margin if it was 30mph +/- 2 Mph its the same as saying the min required is 28 Mph!!!!!!!The speed has to be set at a limit to ensure everyone meets a min standard, that speed is 30 MPH.As others have said, this test was going to get a slating whatever happened and as usual MCN are jumping on any negative news they can get. I think the key is discretion in the conditions and circumstances. There is no point, like you said, saying give or take 2 mph. But the examiner should be able to tell whether the speed travelled at its one that is suitable in the conditions. There is no point training these examiners if they are just ticking boxes, i could do that with no training! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akey Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Agreed, and by the way I dont agree with the swerve manouvre full stop, certainly not the way it is currently set up. I have to say I am not sure how this one is going to pan out, but it would be interesting to see the full picture on how many people have failed or fallen during not only this but other parts of the test along with all those who have passed etc, as all we get in the press (MCN) is the down side and I would be interested to see the overall stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Interesting I'm still sitting on the fence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bex Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 i am with akey in not agreeing with the swerve manuver, its inviting acccidents as people taking the tests are not going to be used to the bikes they are on thus knowing how that bike is going to respond. if your on a bike your used to riding then yes it would be better. and the line that states "whe area used for testing has been tried and tested in al conditions " made me laugh, yes its been tested by people who are profesionals, not novices, obviously they aint going to findit a problem.ithink its a good idea to increase the amount of training that is needed, and areas like this for learning in is good, but they are going about it the wrong way and jsut following euopean beurocratic crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Well all i can say on the matter is when i was training i even had lessons in the snow..on it was snowing but there was snow on the roads..i asked if the lesson was going to be cancelled and drew said hell no you may have to ride in the snow not bloody likely but hey it taught me control lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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