Gerontious

Yes. The first one, there were 3 versions. The second had more internal memory. The third more memory and lifetime maps. Mine actually ran out of memory a few years back and wouldn't update. I rang Garmin, they told me to send it by registered post to their centre in Southampton. They put in a 32Gig mini SD card and updated the software and maps. They also put in a new battery. They charged me £25 and returned the device to me within the week. The software is now split between the SD card and the devices flash memory. I did a map update last year and it went very smoothly.

No... It's when they decide. When they made the announcement that lifetime only meant as long as they choose to offer maps or software updates and then, rubbed salt in wounds by trying to sell these owners new models, they hadn't actually thought through the implications. There were people who had bought new 'old' sat navs just 2 years before, whose 24 month old devices were suddenly obsolete. TomTom moved the goalposts because they were too tightfisted to invest a bit of their software designers time producing updates and mapping for older models. I have an 11yr old Garmin, it's still fully supported. When it bricks itself one thing is certain. I wil not be replacing it with a TomTom. I'm not going to give my cash to a company that treats its customers in such a cavalier manner.

This morning my poll stands at Sat nav - 208 Phone - 71 Paper maps/written directions- 19 42 comments which seem to fall into 3 camps. Those who use phones exclusively and have no problems at all or ignore them. Those who used a phone, couldn't deal with the limitations and bought a sat nav Those who use a sat nav with phone as back-up mainly for extra mapping instead of or in addition to paper maps.

you mean like truck drivers heading for Gibralter and then finding themselves at the wrong Gibraltar near skegness. things like that are down to the idiocy of the driver/rider. Usually being fixated on the sat nav and ignoring the bloody road signs. or what small amount of common sense they might have.

I asked the question (as a poll) on a FB group im a member of a couple of hours ago and as of now Sat nav - 114 Phone - 54 Paper maps/written directions - 12

I know phones can navigate.. its not like thats a shock in 2020. I wonder why [mention]Beans[/mention] is even asking the question about GPS pricing?

I dont know anyone who relies on a mobile phone for navigation, although I see it talked about all the time on some forums including this one. Nobody that I have ever toured with uses their phone. Nobody. of course they all have phones as well. so.. i think it all depends on which bubble you live in. Surely a better question is to ask why would someone with a modern smart phone use a separate dedicated GPS device, like a tomTom or Garmin. start with the forum owner. [mention]Stu[/mention] I'm not best placed to answer as i do not own a phone thats capable of navigation.

£230 is about as low a price you can find for a Brand new Motorcycle GPS. with western European mapping as standard.

Mine is definitely a tool. I use just one function, the screen.. Sound is turned off. In fact everything is turned off or simply not used except the screen.. So route following is purely visual with no distractions. And although it's always on, for my usual pleasure rides it has no route loaded. I generally pay little attention to it until I either turn for home or need something. It really comes in useful for the yearly European trip. And that was my primary reason for getting it in the first place. I was watching a video which compared my model Zumo, from 2009 with the latest top of the range and was amused by the guys attitude towards what was important. For him it seemed to be all about "The Toys" all the clever things the new unit can do, the vast majority of which have nothing to do with its primary function. He seemed to think upgrading was a bit of a no-brainer. As the new unit will cost about £200 once my old one is sold. It was interesting to see that my 11yr old unit is worth over £200, that's quite remarkable. But is the new one worth spending £200 on, plus the rewire. Not for me it isn't. You can watch his video and marvel at all the amazing functions I'm not even remotely interested in.

you can pay £389 on Amazon if you like.. or you can buy direct from tomtom for £399. or £499 for the version with 'extras'. "Price fixing" is when the independents cannot beat or are prevented in some way from undercutting the RRP from the manufacturer.. so if you are finding it for £305, thats quite a nice saving. and not price fixing.

Never go in the kind of place that has pink lampshades.

That's quite a change. I went through something very similar.. from a K1200GT to an F800S. The F800S suited me much better than the 1200... which though a great bike, I was very glad to see the back of.

Both bikes are worth hundreds.. and no way approach £1400 combined.

Im not sure where you get that price from. you can buy a brand new Honda SH125 for £3500 thats a new 'old' bike. in fact just a quick scan and i came across this. 0% finance = £72 a month. with all the benefits of buying a brand new bike.. this one IS brand new.. just a previous year. https://tinyurl.com/suxu3d6 If you want a good bike.. then its always best to start with the dealerships. that will give you a base-line to work from if you decide to go to the independents or private sellers.

Bought my first bike in 1980. with a years savings from a Saturday milk round. KH250B2 took me almost 40 years before I would own another japanese bike. Triumph T160 Triumph T140TSS Triumph Trident 750 Triumph Speed Triple 900 BMW R1100GS BMW K1200GT BMW F800S And now a Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Adventure Sports DCT. 9 bikes in 40 years... I tend to buy a bike based on a ton of research and then keep it for a long time. Longest was my GS. Bought in 1997 and I still have one now. Ive never been particularly inspired by japanese bikes.. I really bought the KH to thumb my nose at my mates who all had Honda CBeebies, A two strke triple being rather different to those other tractors. If time travel were a thing i would go back to 1994 and tell my former self... DONT SELL IT. I had the TSS for 6yrs and was taken in by the bright and shiny new Hinckley machines. My biggest regret is parting with it. My dad took the entire bike apart and rebuilt it properly, fixing all the faults the bike had from the factory, it was sweet.

Never used it. Ive never felt the need for anything 'special' for cleaning the bike aside from the inevitable can of WD40 to remove grease spots, oil or tar-like road deposits. aside from that i spend maybe £4 a year on the cheapest car shampoo I can find. usually in Wilko.

Its not easy trying to plan and anticipate what to do in the event of bad weather. in a previous post I mentioned relocating south into Italy as a last resort. but that comes at a high cost in fuel prices. £1.60 a litre is a bit off putting when its 40p cheaper in Austria. And also.. I can only take so much Pizza!! So, Ive been looking around on the Maps and think I have an answer. head south-east to a town called Spittal an der Drau. The mountains around this place are a little lower, though still very Alpine.. and its quite touristy being close to a major lake called the Millstatter see. The beauty of this place is it puts us literally on the doorstep of both Slovenia and Italy to the south and is close to an Autobahn so we can get west quickly when the time begins to run out and we need to begin heading for home. its also very close to the Nockalm road. Another restricted toll road that we really need to have a day on. The video is worth watching as he a stops a lot for a proper look round. Thats a road I fully intend to visit even if we stay at Zell am See, The area is very touristy so plenty of campsites dotted all around and some (from what I can see) very nice roads to the south. 50 miles to the Mangart in Slovenia. 60 miles to Lake Bled. And 50 miles to the Vršič pass. which looks interesting [mention]bonio[/mention] will appreciate it I'm sure. https://www.dangerousroads.org/eastern-europe/slovenia/619-vri-pass-slovenia.html As you can see on the map, we could easily include a ride to the top of the Mangart as ts relatively close by. https://goo.gl/maps/cwU5T6U24KR2frhG6 last time i went to Slovenia, with [mention]Snod Blatter[/mention] we got hopelessly lost, I had a great route on my Sat Nav, but unfortunately at that time Garmin didnt include Slovenia in their western europe mapping, so I had this route with no map in the background (eek). That day also has the distinction of including the worst road we have ever been on... ho hum. (nobody died - or fell off) All sorted now.. so this is definitely another option.

Thanks for that, but to be honest I cant see any of the guys wanting to do something like that. Our trips are all about the riding and thats all we tend to do... even stopping for lunch is seen as a bit of a hindrance. we do a lot of riding and a lot of drinking. I have earmarked one day.. the middle Sunday as a 'free' day... where the guys can ride if they want or have a day or half a day off. Sunday, because the better roads tend to be rammed with 'weekenders' and thats always a pain when during the week we have these places mostly to ourselves. So.. the middle weekend we might ride from one base to another on the Saturday, and then have the Sunday off. Boring as it might sound thats the day I like to chill out, maybe shove all my dirty laundry in a washing machine and then go to the restaurant for a proper dinner. Shove the washed clothes in a dryer afterwards and then sit and chat with the guys (over a can or 10) about the previous week and whats in store for the next.. begin thinking about what we can fit in before we turn for home. You might think its boring doing laundry.. but it makes perfect sense to me, means i only need bring 7 days worth of clothes for a 14 day trip. This is one of the positive side effects of camping. there is always a laundry room. So, why not take advantage of that? We also like to use campsites that are within relatively easy reach of a supermarket.. Lidl or Aldi, usually. last time we went to the south of france we had our own bar. Panniers filled with ice and cans of beer. very cheap beer compared to the bar. It also means we can eat much more cheaply. Its easy to pick up the makings of an al fresco meal. Bread cheese meats fuit cake and beer. (always beer) I dont bother cooking at all. I bring a stove, kettle, bag of coffee and a cafetiere so i can have fresh coffee in the morning and eat whatever i have to hand. Most campsites have a little shop for fresh bread and so on.. or its never far to the local bakery. Or a van that does the rounds every morning selling fresh bread. Or a cafe where they sell breakfasts to the lazy. We generally have one hot meal per day.. at lunchtime. Stopping off at some random roadside place. Most of the busier passes have an eatery at the summit. its never a problem - food. Even on a Sunday when most places are shut, there will always be a Turkish kebab place thats open. Even if its in the next village and so means a quick ride there... or have Pizza/kebabs delivered to us. And if theres nothing then we just do a bit of extra shopping on the Saturday. Its always the first question I ask the campsite owners on a Saturday.. where can we eat tomorrow? (Sunday) get answers and then we know whats what. And at worse, means calling into a supermarket at the end of the day as we ride back to base.

[mention]Beans[/mention] I try not to take things for granted and so.. if for whatever reason the Alps are closed to us. for instance the weather in the mountains is too dodgy. I have a "Plan B' Bavaria and the Czech Border lands, based around these guides. https://www.dropbox.com/s/binfsymsxbrpfk7/BavariaWald.pdf?dl=0 And if the bad weather encompasses Germany and Austria.. then the Alternative Plan B is to get through the mountains as fast as possible into Italy. https://www.dropbox.com/s/82vxw4hrleizgir/Trentino%20Dolomites%20lake%20Garda.pdf?dl=0 as a last resort. Of course anything can happen over the course of a fortnight, so we will just have to see how it all pans out. We should have a clearer idea of whats what in the final days before the off.

It was Suzukis answer to the Funduro.. an adventure bike before such things existed. why not indeed. They were rather good I believe. Certainly better than the Italian BMWs. Check if the rear shock is original as that was the weakest link. and may have been replaced.. if not then perhaps factor a rebuild into the price you pay. rebuild or replace.

The trick to making the covers maintenance free, is to fit adhesive soft rubber/neoprene tape around the edges of the cover to provide a seal.

Added another restricted toll road to the list of options, this one is 30 miles long and climbs to 2000m. Toll is €5 It's a very pleasant looking, easy 1hr45 ride from Zell. In English it's called the Ziller valley high road. https://www.dangerousroads.org/europe/austria/4506-zillertaler-höhenstraße.html There are others, https://www.dangerousroads.org/europe/austria/8704-12-scenic-alpine-roads-in-austria.html I have 7 of the 12 on the list of options and all being well we should manage most of them.

Ive stayed at Seecamp before.. it ticks a lot of boxes. Most important of all.. it has a BAR!! and terrace with a view of the Glockner. Which shouldnt be as snowy as in the photo. So, somewhere we can sit inside in the evening, they also do big breakfasts which some of the guys may want to take advantage of.

I have a back of an envelope plan. crossing about midday on the Saturday then riding to a campsite we have stayed at before at Epernay. A very easy first day to get the guys back into the swing of camping... it also will take a decent bite out of the 400 mile trek across france to the Southern Black Forest. Next day.. on to the Black Forest and we will likely stay there for one night. Then a choice which depends on the weather.. we might stay in the BF for 3 nights and so have 2 full days to explore.. Or carry on. We can either cut through Switzerland.. follow the B500 south to the border then nip across via Liechtenstein and to a campsite at the west end of Austria and spend a few days there.. for the Umbrail, Stelvio and Timmelsjoch passes as well as the Silvretta panoramic high road. Or.. we can follow the German Alpine road which runs from Lake constance all the way to Berchtesgaden, turn off a bit early and head for Zell am See, For the grossglockner and a day out in the Dolomites.. or the guys might want to relocate to the Dolomites which are literally on the doorstep after we have had our day on the Glockner. Or if not then i would like to try for the Nockalmstrasse.. another restricted (toll) road. And the postalm. so.. the trip will have 2 or maybe 3 bases. The intention is to follow the sun, ride in the mountains. if we do the German alpine road first to Zell, then we will fit in the Umbrail/Stelvio/Timmesljoch on our way back.. as we turn for home. Ive also made it clear that i fully intend for us to ride the entire length of the B500.. from the Swiss border, to Baden Baden in the north, probably on our way back.. as part of our return, i mean. We went there 5 years ago.. and the guys are especially keen to revisit. main thing for us.. and the reason we do these trips in early september is its a normal working week, kids are back at school and the vast majority of tourists have vanished, but its still warm. days are still reasonably long. And we have the place mostly to ourselves.. compared to going during the holiday season. So, we cross on the saturday and should be in the BF sunday evening... Glockner (perhaps) by Wednesday.... saturday we will relocate. Sunday a half or full day off.. Then stelvio etc during the early part of the second week... there is a lot to do at the west end of Austria and into Italy, B500 hopefully on the Thursday. And back to the Tunnel on the saturday.. or all that, but reversed. B500 first.. all depends on the weather... where the sun is shining. a few links to feast your eyes on: German Alpine road. https://www.deutsche-alpenstrasse.de/en/home Grossglockner. https://www.grossglockner.at/gg/en/index Silvretta. https://www.dangerousroads.org/europe/austria/194-silvretta-high-alpine-road-austria.html Nockalmstrasse. https://www.nockalmstrasse.at/na/en/index If we make it to Zell am See.. this is where we are staying. Right on the lake at its northern end. and just a few miles from the start of the grossglockner road.

Well, you would, wouldn't you.. I mean. you are trained to change and balance a tyre on a bike and then someone arrives on a Harley. you can either look confused.. or add a few quid to the bill to compensate yourself for the trauma. (or both)