is cbt enough training?

[AndySv]

I think with the old CBT rules 2 years on 1 year off was a better incentive to get further training and pass the full test, now people retake test after test without getting further knowledge, I thought I was a decent rider because I have had years of experience on 125's but after putting in for my test and watching a few mod2 videos it has opened my eyes that I could do so much better. There is so much to it that CBT does not teach, Or maybe I just had bad instructors but I have been to a few in Kent and Essex.

I knew of people who ride really badly because they don't know any different, when they retake their CBT they ride for the test, not for themselves and then back to their old ways just because they got their bit of paper.

Id say the theory test should be mandatory if you wish to take the CBT, at least some of the highway code might stick unlike CBT's I have been to the instructor just tells you on the day and most of it is forgotten by the time the candidate gets on the road. maybe even limit CBT to 50cc and make the a1 licence mandatory if you want to ride a 125.

[Joeman]

And that's the problem. People do a cbt and then off they go, they don't bother putting in any self study or try to proactivly improve on their riding skills.

The clue is in the name, it's Basic Training. Anyone with half brain would realise the roads are dangerous and woukd make and attempt to continue to study after getting the cbt certificate so they can be sure that they are safe.. and it's so much easier these days with the internet and youtube etc. There really is. I excuse to be surprised by what a riser is expected to be able to do to pass the Mods..

No idea if they do it or not, but on completion of the CBT rider should be handed a self study guide for them to take away and read and get them up to speed on what's required to pass the mod1/2 tests... but I'm sure most wouldn't bother reading it.

[Six30]

What 17 year old would want to study and learn more ..they want to get out and ride round in tracksuit bottoms and no gloves, trying to wheely thier scooters with the loudest exhaust on it they can get... Bless em

[HondaHero]

Let's suppose the CBT is scrapped, and you can hop on any bike from the age of 17 without L-plates and without taking any form of test.

Everyone who seeks out and pays for an instructor to teach them introductory CBT-like things would then be doing it entirely out of their own free will. Paying voluntarily for that service means their eyes and ears will be peeled. They will ask about and memorise everything they are told, from points about the Highway Code to vehicle maintenance and safety gear. Why? Because nothing compels them to be there. The pressure would be off. As a result, rather than learn off by heart the Theory Test questions (like I did) or the show-me tell-me questions (like I did), their attitude to learning would help them absorb reams of information.

The bottom line is that if you had an American type of situation ('endorsement', MSF, etc.), where there is no real practical barrier to having any motorbike you want (except being alive and having enough money to buy it), the majority of riders would have enough of a self-preservation instinct to go and make sure they were really good, by getting whatever training they needed. To put it another way, if I had been able to hop on a Ducati 1098 at the age of 17 with NO sense of accomplishment, I would be a much better rider than I am today, with not even a year's experience and a massive sense of accomplishment for jumping through all the hoops of the licensing system.

[daveyboy9274]

But nobody bats an eyelid at kids on pushbikes with zero training..

Yeah, but push-bikes don't travel at 60mph

And you know what, the cycling proficiency course i did in primary school was a lot more than two hours long!

 

On certain roads you could do regularly (if you have the balls)

Easy to do 50/70kph 35/43mph without even trying in the lanes around Barnet or Surrey

Stopping quickly is the problem

 

I have pushbikes hit my parked car on numerous occasions, rather frustrating to say the least lol

[Joeman]

A little off topic, but here goes anyway...

every morning on my way to work i have to negotiates the Borris cycle superhighway in London. its a crazy place! Angry cyclists have proven them selved incapable of riding on real roads, and so have been given their own bit of road, and yet they are still angry - shouting at each other, shouting at anyone who steps into the cycle lane, basically just shouting at everyone..

So now we have a complete second road network with its own set of stupid little cyclists traffic lights, being used by angry cyclists who have no training, no age restriction and no insurance, who just seem to want to shout at everyone!

IVe seen loads of near misses, and a few actual accidents Last week i saw a school kid, probably only about 7 years old get hit by an angry cyclists when he accidently stepped into the cycle lane... Motorcyclists instinct meant i saw it coming seconds before, but the idiotic cyclist just ploughed right into him... poor kid... its chaos out there!!!

[someone]

And how many car drivers do we see everyday driving like tw@ts and they have passed a full licence test?

 

That is something which never ceases to amaze me.

 

I think with the old CBT rules 2 years on 1 year off was a better incentive to get further training and pass the full test, now people retake test after test without getting further knowledge

 

It would have stopped me riding. It took me a month after completing the CBT to get a bike, a month later I became ill so barely got to touch it until the second year. Then things were going great, I was thinking towards the full test but had an accident (caught some mud) so a few more months off, and it had knocked my confidence so was not ready for the test when I got back on.

Two years may be great for those who are commuting so riding every day, but I only got about ten months of weekend riding out of the two years of my CBT. Saying it is all or nothing in two years is too inflexible. Similarly restricting the CBT to 50cc. Some (most?) people are able to easily go straight for DAS training with no prior experience but I know I would not have been able to do that. But whilst 50cc may be enough for getting around town, if that is not your purpose then DAS would be the only option.

For all my accidents (mud, black ice, puncture) and mistakes and being a somewhat slow learner, I know my limits, am not reckless, and not harmed anyone else. I do not see how changing the system to penalize those like me who do try to do things right and safe will help when those who are idiots will be so regardless of qualifications.

I mount a camera on my handlebars though, so I can use it to learn from my mistakes, and one day someone came up to ask about it. He said he has been regularly renewing his CBT for years because he was no good at the theory. That sort of thing to me seems to me the bigger problem. When I first completed the CBT no one else in the class seemed to have read the Highway Code, yet they still completed it but were told to go away and read it. Who knows if thy did.

So I agree with you and others saying the theory should be a prerequisite to the CBT. It may not be perfect on its own, but at least then requires an understanding of the road and applying common sense to it, which is usually the problem with bad riding. And those who will ride without care for anyone else on the road will, as you say, just ride for the tests than go back to not caring.

As well as ensuring a better understanding of something only briefly touched upon in a 90 minute classroom section, it would then make sense for people to at least do the A2 test instead of retaking the CBT. It costs about the same, as you can do it on your own bike, but you only need to do it once and it also saves the cost and effort of retaking a theory test as that also expires after two years.

At least I can only think the theory requirement is the reason people continually renew CBTs rather than take an A2 test.

 

No idea if they do it or not, but on completion of the CBT rider should be handed a self study guide for them to take away and read and get them up to speed on what's required to pass the mod1/2 tests... but I'm sure most wouldn't bother reading it.

 

You get nothing but the certificate. With everything crammed into a day, and having no prior experience with bikes, I was struggling to remember most of what was said. So I ended up downloading copies of the RiderCourse Rider Handbook from the MSF in the U.S., and the Motorcycle Riders' Handbook from the Northern Territory Government in Australia.

I know I am in a minority to have done that, but it shocks me that we have no equivalent and I had to rely on guidance from equivalent foreign schemes. It would cost practically nothing for the DfT to at the very least put together a similar PDF and print the link on the CBT certificate.

And that way I would have remembered we drive on the other side of the road.

[daveyboy9274]

And how many car drivers do we see everyday driving like tw@ts and they have passed a full licence test?

I agree car drivers are so annoying but it takes them many hours to learn to drive, there's no excuse for inconsiderate driving lol

That is something which never ceases to amaze me.

 

I think with the old CBT rules 2 years on 1 year off was a better incentive to get further training and pass the full test, now people retake test after test without getting further knowledge

 

It would have stopped me riding. It took me a month after completing the CBT to get a bike, a month later I became ill so barely got to touch it until the second year. Then things were going great, I was thinking towards the full test but had an accident (caught some mud) so a few more months off, and it had knocked my confidence so was not ready for the test when I got back on.

Two years may be great for those who are commuting so riding every day, but I only got about ten months of weekend riding out of the two years of my CBT. Saying it is all or nothing in two years is too inflexible. Similarly restricting the CBT to 50cc. Some (most?) people are able to easily go straight for DAS training with no prior experience but I know I would not have been able to do that. But whilst 50cc may be enough for getting around town, if that is not your purpose then DAS would be the only option.

For all my accidents (mud, black ice, puncture) and mistakes and being a somewhat slow learner, I know my limits, am not reckless, and not harmed anyone else. I do not see how changing the system to penalize those like me who do try to do things right and safe will help when those who are idiots will be so regardless of qualifications.

I mount a camera on my handlebars though, so I can use it to learn from my mistakes, and one day someone came up to ask about it. He said he has been regularly renewing his CBT for years because he was no good at the theory. That sort of thing to me seems to me the bigger problem. When I first completed the CBT no one else in the class seemed to have read the Highway Code, yet they still completed it but were told to go away and read it. Who knows if thy did.

So I agree with you and others saying the theory should be a prerequisite to the CBT. It may not be perfect on its own, but at least then requires an understanding of the road and applying common sense to it, which is usually the problem with bad riding. And those who will ride without care for anyone else on the road will, as you say, just ride for the tests than go back to not caring.

As well as ensuring a better understanding of something only briefly touched upon in a 90 minute classroom section, it would then make sense for people to at least do the A2 test instead of retaking the CBT. It costs about the same, as you can do it on your own bike, but you only need to do it once and it also saves the cost and effort of retaking a theory test as that also expires after two years.

At least I can only think the theory requirement is the reason people continually renew CBTs rather than take an A2 test.

 

No idea if they do it or not, but on completion of the CBT rider should be handed a self study guide for them to take away and read and get them up to speed on what's required to pass the mod1/2 tests... but I'm sure most wouldn't bother reading it.

 

You get nothing but the certificate. With everything crammed into a day, and having no prior experience with bikes, I was struggling to remember most of what was said. So I ended up downloading copies of the RiderCourse Rider Handbook from the MSF in the U.S., and the Motorcycle Riders' Handbook from the Northern Territory Government in Australia.

I know I am in a minority to have done that, but it shocks me that we have no equivalent and I had to rely on guidance from equivalent foreign schemes. It would cost practically nothing for the DfT to at the very least put together a similar PDF and print the link on the CBT certificate.

And that way I would have remembered we drive on the other side of the road.

[simon37uk]

sorry to bump an old post

new to the forum

just wanna say i passed my cbt in 2 hours just scraping though

i did my training on a lexmoto dart 125 i had a few minor errors like not looking for indicator switch and kept checking my speed.

i got told off big time for that and instructor saying go at a certain speed and i was but he saying i wasnt now im a big lad of around 18 stone which i dont think he took into consideration, top speed i got on 125 was 49mph on a dual carriageway.

all in all tho i dont think 2 hours is really long enough id have liked to have had longer as im still a little nervous to go out on scooter even tho he said i was ok and would get better with practice cause when i followed him i was perfect but him following me and calling in my ear i was nervous.

also couldnt use my right mirror as my arm in way even after adjusting mirrors and he said dont worry so couldnt use it also right indicator at front didnt work only back one as still made me use it

[Thomas J]

Ok I class myself as a safe driver. I drive artics for a living so have to be.

I have my cbt but have not yet got my direct access completed.

I think they should overhaul the system.

I have completed 4 cbts and had a little yamaha rxs100 for a little bit.

I have learnt alot from each and every cbt I have completed.

The way it should be is the instructors are fully trained to be examiners (but not)

They take you out and once you have shown you have mastered a skill it gets signed off.

Once all parts are mastered here's your certificate and licence.

The amount of people that manage to pull a good ride/drive out of their crevice and pass the test but then find out they cannot ride/drive for toffee is amazing.

[Fizzy]

The amount of people that manage to pull a good ride/drive out of their crevice and pass the test but then find out they cannot ride/drive for toffee is amazing.

 

My boss's wife passed her bike test. A few days later she was at the showroom collecting her bike. Drove off the forecourt and straight into the shop opposite. Most of the damage was dented pride. Guys came over from the bike shop and suggested she take some training, and they'd have the bike delivered to her...

[Throttled]

I did not feel safe or in control when I rode my YBR125 home after passing my CBT. Another biker even stopped and asked me if I was OK!

[RantMachine]

I accidentally dumped the clutch and popped a great big wheelie on my CBT

Still gave me the certificate at the end, though... that seemed a bit questionable. So I did the sensible thing and got further training the next day...

[Fizzy]

I do see posts on FB where kids have claimed to have fallen off yet still been given the certificate. I've always suspected it's BS, but perhaps not?

[RantMachine]

I'm pretty sure it's just cowboy places that offer a free re-do for anyone that "fails" the first time as a way to attract business, but don't actually want to have to work for free so they never "fail" anyone

[Liveware Problem]

I didn't really feel the CBT was sufficient training for letting me loose on the roads, I enjoyed it but realised just how exposed you are on a motorbike. Of course that should be obvious but it doesn't quite sink in until you're actually on a bike

Every junction was approached with trepidation, imagining some impatient 4x4 driver steamrollering me as I pulled out

I feel fortunate to have car driving experience, it must be harder still for 16/17 year olds with little to no road experience.. that said I don't think any of us has a sense of our own fragile mortality at that age!

I remember the lady I spoke to was very breezy about the tests in general, didn't seem to think they'd be any issue moving from CBT to Mod 1 then Mod 2 with only the couple of days training they chuck in with the package (£695 for all 3, Inc use of gear and bike)

Having done the CBT I'm now pretty convinced I'll need extra experience.

[Joeman]

Took my CBT at 16years old. Like most young lads I was fearless so it didn't phase me at all jumping on a 50cc bike and mixing with the traffic.

I think it you guys who did it later in life who are worriers

[Liveware Problem]

Took my CBT at 16years old. Like most young lads I was fearless so it didn't phase me at all jumping on a 50cc bike and mixing with the traffic.

I think it you guys who did it later in life who are worriers

 

That was what I thought

If only youthful confidence made people invulnerable to traffic!

[Lateralus]

I feel fortunate to have car driving experience, it must be harder still for 16/17 year olds with little to no road experience.. that said I don't think any of us has a sense of our own fragile mortality at that age!

 

At the tender age of 32, I'm also very glad that I've got lots of experience driving and cycling before starting on motorbikes. General road sense has definitely done me well in my lessons so far, but then again there's good reason they don't let 17 year olds straight on big bikes!

[Fizzy]

Took my CBT at 16years old. Like most young lads I was fearless so it didn't phase me at all jumping on a 50cc bike and mixing with the traffic.

I think it you guys who did it later in life who are worriers

 

Didn't even need a CBT when I started riding, straight on a moped at 16 and had a RXS 100 waiting for me on my 17th. It's certainly a while ago now, but don't think I was that nervous about riding

Took a CBT in Summer as I've been commuting on a 50 for a while and needed something bigger/newer as my commute to the station is now longer and takes in some 40-50mph roads. There was 1 other on my course, a 16 year old. The morning part he was fine, he'd clearly studied the Highway Code and riding round the car park he was fine.

However after lunch on the road ride, he was, well, dangerous! He was clearly VERY nervous, chugging along at 20mph (the only time he got up to 30 was in a 20 zone!), not reading the road (he turned left when he should have gone straight on (road bent round sharply to right)), stopping on main roads to give way to traffic at side roads, and when he was making right turns he was swinging the bike all the way left and then back across the road.

He was asked to come back for more training, but it did make me wonder how many 16 year olds had been like him when I started riding

[Guest]

It's probably not, but that's all the law requires (unfortunately).