Pinlock use at night

[JRH]

Sorry for the delay in posting this but stuff happens.

Any way some time ago this question cropped up and so I contacted Pinlock and their reply was they are OK to use.

Since then i have bought a new Shoei helmet and the Pinlock in that said not for night use. So again i contacted pinlock.

Below is the full conversation make of it what you will, but i think the final answer is a big cop out.

Personally I have no issues at night and will continue to use it. But not sure what would hapen in the event of an accident at night.

Emails to Pinlock, unfortunately the conversation starts at the bottom.

Re: Support question

From Info | Pinlock [email protected] details

To John

show image slideshow

Hi John,

You are right it does not stack up.

However, I would still advise to follow instructions of the manual when you are in doubt.

Ultimately it is still up to you what you want to do with your products.

If you have any other questions. Please let us know.

Regards,

Laurence van den Berg

Pinlock Online

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Pinlock Group B.V.

Zilverparkkade 134

8232 WL Lelystad

T. +31 320 200 333

E. [email protected]

W. www.pinlock.com

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Pinlock Systems B.V. is a limited Liability Company. Our general terms and conditions, which include a limitation of liability, are applicable to all work performed. They are deposited at the Chamber of Commerce, Lelystad under nr. 39059043 and will be sent on request. This e-mail is intended exclusively for the addressee and can contain information which is strictly confidential. If this e-mail was sent to you by mistake we inform you that this message can contain confidential information which may be protected by professional secrecy. We request you to inform us immediately and to destroy this e-mail. Please note that we accept no responsibility whatsoever for viruses, disclosure of information or any other damage that might occur using e-mail as means of communication.

Van: John

Datum: vrijdag 24 februari 2017 22:54

Aan: Info | Pinlock <[email protected]>

Onderwerp: Re: Support question

Thanks for that Laurence, but I am not too sure how that stacks up with a reply I received from Luca in Dec 2016. See attached.

Dear John,

Thank you very much for your e-mail.

The clear Pinlock lenses are absolutely suitable to use at night, it is the other way around for the Dark Smoke lenses. It could be not convenient to use those at night because visibility then is really low. My advice for you is if you are struggling with changing the lenses then buy a Protectint lens, because this insert adjusts itself to the amount of UV-light. So at night it will be clear and over day it changes to from light smoke to dark smoke that depends on the amount of UV-light, if the sun is shining of course.

I hope this informed you enough, should you have any other questions please feel free to contac tme again.

Best regards,

Luca de Raad

Customer service

id:[email protected]

Does this mean that Pinlock have changed their stance. I am interested to hear.

The reason for the original question that Luca answered was that the Pinlock I had with my original helmet did NOT carry that warning, but some of my friends who bought later pinlocks had this warning on the packaging and now my new helmet and Pinlock both carry the warning.

Regards

John H

On 24 Feb 2017, at 13:19, Info | Pinlock <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi John,

After consulting with my colleagues here, the consensus is that you should follow the instructions.

You are free to do as you please, and many riders have no problem with it, but we officially don’t endorse it.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us.

Regards,

Laurence van den Berg

Pinlock Online

Pinlock Group B.V.

Zilverparkkade 134

8232 WL Lelystad

T. +31 320 200 333

E. [email protected]

W. www.pinlock.com

Pinlock Systems B.V. is a limited Liability Company. Our general terms and conditions, which include a limitation of liability, are applicable to all work performed. They are deposited at the Chamber of Commerce, Lelystad under nr. 39059043 and will be sent on request. This e-mail is intended exclusively for the addressee and can contain information which is strictly confidential. If this e-mail was sent to you by mistake we inform you that this message can contain confidential information which may be protected by professional secrecy. We request you to inform us immediately and to destroy this e-mail. Please note that we accept no responsibility whatsoever for viruses, disclosure of information or any other damage that might occur using e-mail as means of communication.

Van: John

Datum: donderdag 23 februari 2017 19:40

Aan: Info | Pinlock <[email protected]>

Onderwerp: Re: Support question

Hi any answer yet?

Hi

Thanks for the reply, but the concern is that the warning is ALSO on the Pinlock packaging as well as in the Shoei manual.

So is this the Pinlock stance as well or again is it to protect Pinlock from insurance claims?

regards

John H

-----Original Message-----

From: Info | Pinlock <[email protected]>

To: John

Sent: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 9:01

Subject: Re: Support question

Hi John,

Thank you for contacting Pinlock support.

The daytime instruction from Shoei is mostly to cover them from insurance claims.

We have many satisfied customers who use Pinlock lenses daily, even in dusk or dawn.

However, you should be aware that using any lens inside the visor will cause a ghosting effect (a slightly offset double image) because of the light bouncing between the two surfaces.

This may be a slight hindrance, or it may be a deal-breaker for you. I would advise you to try it out in low lighting conditions, see if it causes any hindrance for you.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us.

Regards,

Laurence van den Berg

Pinlock Online

Pinlock Group B.V.

Zilverparkkade 134

8232 WL Lelystad

T. +31 320 200 333

E. [email protected]

W. www.pinlock.com

Pinlock Systems B.V. is a limited Liability Company. Our general terms and conditions, which include a limitation of liability, are applicable to all work performed. They are deposited at the Chamber of Commerce, Lelystad under nr. 39059043 and will be sent on request. This e-mail is intended exclusively for the addressee and can contain information which is strictly confidential. If this e-mail was sent to you by mistake we inform you that this message can contain confidential information which may be protected by professional secrecy. We request you to inform us immediately and to destroy this e-mail. Please note that we accept no responsibility whatsoever for viruses, disclosure of information or any other damage that might occur using e-mail as means of communication.

From: John

Date: Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 11:39 AM

To: Info | Pinlock <[email protected]>

Subject: Re: Support question

Further to the reply from Luca, for which I thank you, I have recently purchased a Shoei GT-Air helmet. In the box is a Pinlock EVO ref DKS301. It seems to be a clear visor BUT the package clearly states

"Daytime use only, never use Pinlock EVO lens at night or in other low visibility conditions"

Can you explain this apparent difference please.

Regards

John

On 2 Dec 2016, at 09:29, Info | Pinlock <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear John,

Thank you very much for your e-mail.

The clear Pinlock lenses are absolutely suitable to use at night, it is the other way around for the Dark Smoke lenses. It could be not convenient to use those at night because visibility then is really low. My advice for you is if you are struggling with changing the lenses then buy a Protectint lens, because this insert adjusts itself to the amount of UV-light. So at night it will be clear and over day it changes to from light smoke to dark smoke that depends on the amount of UV-light, if the sun is shining of course.

I hope this informed you enough, should you have any other questions please feel free to contac tme again.

Best regards,

Luca de Raad

Customer service

Systems B.V.

A Zilverparkkade 134

8232 WL Lelystad

The Netherlands

T +31 320200333

F +31 320224371

W www.pinlock.com

E [email protected]

Pinlock Systems B.V. is a limited Liability Company. Our general terms and conditions, which include a limitation of liability, are applicable to all work performed. They are deposited at the Chamber of Commerce, Lelystad under nr. 39059043 and will be sent on request. This e-mail is intended exclusively for the addressee and can contain information which is strictly confidential. If this e-mail was sent to you by mistake we inform you that this message can contain confidential information which may be protected by professional secrecy. We request you to inform us immediately and to destroy this e-mail. Please note that we accept no responsibility whatsoever for viruses, disclosure of information or any other damage that might occur using e-mail as means of communication.

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Van: Pinlock Support [mailto:[email protected]]

Verzonden: woensdag 30 november 2016 16:13

Aan: Info | Pinlock

Onderwerp: Support question

Firstname: John

Question: Are CLEAR pinlock suitable to use at night

[Joeman]

lots of arse covering going on there...

[JRH]

My thoughts exactly.

It would appear that Pinlock have changed there stance as my original pinlock did not have the warning but the new one does!

[someone]

I hd to replace my Caberg Duke last November with another. The first had a Pinlock Original and this time it came with a Pinlock 70, so the updated branding. But both had the same advice for clear lenses under the icon for one, which was "US: Daytime use only". Nothing else mentioned about it.

There was a change though, but in the other direction, with the Dark Smoke and ProtecTint models downgraded from being "Track use only" to "Daytime use only".

[Throttled]

I have used pinlock on two helmets at night with no issues. One is my light up in the dark LED Shark Skwal I got because I ride so much in the dark.

[fq-craigus]

I have pinlock on both my helmets and not a problem. Both clear lenses.

Clear lenses can be used at night and tinted not.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[JRH]

Not if you read the blurb on the new packaging and the shift in the response from Pinlock.

However I have no probs and will continue to use my clear one.

[Throttled]

I have not experienced any issues at all. I do not really get how there can be an issue.

[JRH]

Pinlock help desk make reference to a possible ghosting or double image due to the additional optical layer. I guess they are referring to a bending of light as it passes between the visor and the pinlock.

I think they have changed stance from the period of the original reply from Luca possibly due to litigation threats from over the pond

[Joeman]

Two different materials will always have a different refractive index and bend the light differently but i would imagine they had thought about that and made the pinlock from something with a very similar refractive index..

I've never had an issue with pinlocks at night

[Stu]

try riding at dusk when its raining with a pinlock and a screen in its highest positing that you can't see over the top......it messes with your head

I think they are just covering all angles

[JRH]

And to add to all that I wear glasses or contacts, so that's another layer of optics. (not the drinking sort). Its a wonder i can see at all at night

[Guest]

I've been using a pinlock in the dark for three years. Never any issues. Clear pinlock of course.

[Mr Fro]

try riding at dusk when its raining with a pinlock and a screen in its highest positing that you can't see over the top......it messes with your head

I think they are just covering all angles

Big screens do funny things without a visor anyway.

The new warning is likely down to a candidate for the Darwin Award.

Like everyone else, I've not had an issue with any of mine.

[grunthorpe]

I've got one of those stick on type equivalents and when it's dark I can faintly see my own reflection on the inside of my visor...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lateralus]

And to add to all that I wear glasses or contacts, so that's another layer of optics. (not the drinking sort). Its a wonder i can see at all at night

 

I have glasses too, and an integrated sun visor - up to 4 lenses! Really wish I had a Pinlock for my glasses sometimes!

[JRH]

[rennie]

I desperately need to go and get some prescription sunglasses!

I actually had to stop the other day cos I couldn't see into the low Sun

[JRH]

I've turned round before for the same reason. So I've now bought a new helmet with a built in sun visor.

[rennie]

Mmmm! I suppose I could get a more cruiser type helmet with a sun visor

[Mawsley]

I'm going back to a Fog City, I never had any issues with them. Pinlock has been nothing but a pain in the arse from Day 1, and last week was my first night trip out on country lanes - I couldn't see a damn thing with oncoming traffic.

[MR_W]

I've never had an issue with pinlock. It's certainly made rain or colder weather riding easier as well for me.

[Gerontious]

Buyers have been talking about this 'daytime use only' for clear pinlocks.... and nearly always for SHOEI visors for almost 10 years.

[JRH]

Buyers have been talking about this 'daytime use only' for clear pinlocks.... and nearly always for SHOEI visors for almost 10 years.

 

3 or 4 years ago the pinlocks packed with Shoei helmets did not have the Day time only sticker. As recently as Feb the official stance from Pinlock as confirmed by Luca in an email to me was that the clear items are suitable for night use. It is only recently Pinlock have changed their stance as can be seen in the email trail I posted at the start.

[Gerontious]

Buyers have been talking about this 'daytime use only' for clear pinlocks.... and nearly always for SHOEI visors for almost 10 years.

 

3 or 4 years ago the pinlocks packed with Shoei helmets did not have the Day time only sticker. As recently as Feb the official stance from Pinlock as confirmed by Luca in an email to me was that the clear items are suitable for night use. It is only recently Pinlock have changed their stance as can be seen in the email trail I posted at the start.

 

Ok.. maybe I phrased my post incorrectly. As long ago as 2007 (October) this was being discussed and a cause of much outrage on forums with American members. why should a clear pinlock insert in a shoei helmet with a clear visor be marked DAYTIME USE ONLY?

below is a screenshot of a post thats almost 10yrs old.

it may not be readable.. so here is exactly what it says.

 

Shoei Pinlock Question

<< on: October 26th 2007

So I just received my new clear pinlock shield and clear pinlock insert and noticed that it has a sticker on the visor itself and an imprint on the insert that warns (in a fairly large font) that they are for "DAYTIME USE ONLY"

 

 

So.. are these inserts now being sold in the UK.. originally intended for the American market? or.. is the apparent 'problem' thats at least 10 years old still with us?

In more recent posts there are people saying that the two together.. a pinlock plus a shoei visor reduced light transmission to 80% and its this that makes them unsafe at night.. though others talk about intrusive halos and ghosting. (starbursts)

Edited March 20, 2017 by Gerontious