Manhandling bike with contact on

[karinoushka]

Hi

I was helping a guy park his bike in a curved motorcycle bay. Tight gap from the road side, ample room from the footpath side. Typical street corner. I pushed my bike as much as I could to make room for him. The gap was still not big enough so he jumped of his bike and pushed it in the slot, front first, hand on the saddle. I was by my bike next to the footpath so I grabbed the handle to prevent it from falling once it was far from him. Little did I know that he left the engine on and it flew away.

Yes, unfortunately I was on the throttle side so it's the one I went for instinctively. Not proud. I accepted the blame and all. The entire thing was super humiliating. Thankfully no one was injured.

Since then I've been reflecting on it. Was it blatant neglect of him to manhandle his bike with the engine on? Am I entirely to blame? What if someone had been injured? I doubt my insurance will cover the damage as there was no contact between my bike and his...

Anyway, this is the second time I see a bike manhandling ending up in a crash, but I can't see any safety note on that, best practice, even in the theory. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

Ps: I promised myself to never ever help anyone parking ever again. It's an expensive mistake.

[Joeman]

Was it a scooter with no gears?

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Are you to blame? Not in my book. The owner / rider is responsible for the control of their machine and if it's left with the engine running and they haven't got their hands on the controls then they leave things open to go wrong. In that kind of situation it's easy for the throttle to be activated by contact with anything nearby. Especially any kind of bike with an automatic clutch.

If the rider wanted to move it like that the engine should have been off.

Back in the day - and don't tell anyone this - when I was young and poor and desperate - I had a Honda Cub to get to work on, I had a similar mishap pushing it into a parking slot when the throttle caught on a railing, fortunately no harm done. After that I never got off the saddle without killing the engine.

[Stu]

Are you to blame? Not in my book. The owner / rider is responsible for the control of their machine and if it's left with the engine running and they haven't got their hands on the controls then they leave things open to go wrong. In that kind of situation it's easy for the throttle to be activated by contact with anything nearby. Especially any kind of bike with an automatic clutch.

If the rider wanted to move it like that the engine should have been off.

Back in the day - and don't tell anyone this - when I was young and poor and desperate - I had a Honda Cub to get to work on, I had a similar mishap pushing it into a parking slot when the throttle caught on a railing, fortunately no harm done. After that I never got off the saddle without killing the engine.

 

When I was growing up I was taught not to touch things that aren't yours! I don't see how it's the owners fault!

He probably knew what was going on but not expecting someone to touch his bike!

[Arwen]

Gotta say I agree with Stu on this. Unless they asked for help, don't touch someone else's bike.

I see guys moving and parking bikes like that in showroom around here. It looks weird, but they have it under control and know how it "falls" onto the side stand.

Granted, I don't think they should have left the engine on while parking it, but if they were practised at it they shouldn't have needed anyone to touch it.

[Westbeef]

I can only see this being an auto for this to happen. If it was someone's scooter then it's pretty obvious what's gonna happen if you grab the throttle. A bit more understandable if it was an auto bike as they're pretty uncommon - but that I'm with the others on not touching others bikes.

[madcow87]

Funny really unless I see someone really struggle I wouldn't usually touch anyone's bike. However. Due to the nature of parking and security around our site at work, I have had to move a selection of bikes out of the way to be able to go home.

The nature of our work is that everyone can start and finish when they want within a window of time, that means when I come in at 6am and get parked nice and sensibly, others will come in at 9am when there's no room. Rather than move their bikes to a different area they'll just leave their bikes/scooters blocking bikes in and stopping them from leaving. Those people will often be finishing work at 4.30/5pm so when I leave at 3pm I inevitably can't get out and have to start moving bikes. It doesn't happen often mind but it does happen.

It bugs me because we do register license plate numbers with the security on site but when you go to them about an issue they just sack you off and say its not their problem. Which then means I either sit and wait for another 2/3 hours potentially or I have to move someone's bike.

[karinoushka]

Was it a scooter with no gears?

 

Yes, it was an automatic.

[karinoushka]

Yep, he looked pretty experienced at handling his bike, won't argue with that. To do such a risky manoeuvre with the engine on you're either terribly experienced or totally nuts.

The thing is, once his bike was in, there would have been no room for him to get in the slot. He would have had to go all around the bay and access the front of his bike from the pedestrian side. One way or the other, I would have had to assist him. One way or the other, it would have happened.

And if your handle catches on someone else's bike, do you claim the accident on the other's bike . I was miles away from thinking this bike was on doing such a manoeuvre.

I guess, the saddest thing is that if I see someone struggle I'll force myself to stand by and look. That's against my nature. But hey, I'll learn to be selfish, after living in London since 8 years, I guess it's time!

[Throttled]

Or still help, but after you ask and not by grabbing the throttle.

[karinoushka]

Or still help, but after you ask and not by grabbing the throttle.

 

Welllll no. If something happens it's so easy to put the blame on the other, and you can't count on people's honesty. I learnt it the hard way here.

My partner actually contacted this man and he lied on multiple occasions. I think the best one was "being on the bike". I mean if he had been on the bike to maintain stability I would have never hold the handle... which reminds me, I should buy a camera.

As outrageous as it may sound, I advise everyone not to be helpful if it means you could get in trouble for whatever reason.

[Westbeef]

Sorry but you weren't helpful, you grabbed his throttle and shot his scooter into oblivion.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I guess I'm going to be the odd one out here - and I agree with the general rule about not messing about with other people's things but that is surely a secondary issue in this situation.

In my book the rider of a bike is responsible for the control of it at all times. If the rider cannot reach the controls then the engine shouldn't be running. The primary cause was that the rider left the engine running when he didn't have full control of the machine.

Maybe bikes ought to learn a lesson from boats and have a kill cord fitted.

[Joeman]

But he did have full control, he just didnt expect someone to grab the throttle and crank it open!

[Six30]

Don't know , but please tell me someone videod it

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

But he did have full control, he just didnt expect someone to grab the throttle and crank it open!

 

If he had full control why didn't he throttle back, apply the brakes or hit the kill switch? If he was in control and chose not to then it's his responsibility. If he couldn't then it's again his responsibility.

[Joeman]

But he did have full control, he just didnt expect someone to grab the throttle and crank it open!

 

If he had full control why didn't he throttle back, apply the brakes or hit the kill switch? If he was in control and chose not to then it's his responsibility. If he couldn't then it's again his responsibility.

 

Ok, so when a bike jacker jumps you at the lights, takes your bike and runs over a school full of children, we'll blame you for not being in control of your bike since you didn't take the keys out or hit the kill switch...

No excuses about not expecting someone else to touch the bike..

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I think there is a rather big difference between being bike jacked and voluntarily dismounting a machine and pushing it from the rear with the engine still running. But if that's where the discussion is going then I'll happily admit to being wrong.

[Joeman]

Not really that different at all. In both scenarios, the rider is doing something they have likely done many times before without issue, when suddenly someone else deliberately assumes control of the bike without permission.

Once the other person has control the rider can surely no longer be deemed at fault, and the person in control should accept responsibility for damages regardless of their good intentions.

But who's to say the OP wasn't some idiot who thought it would be funny to smash the riders bike up and saw the opportunity to do so? Not saying he was, but an outsider watching the event could easily make that assumption. The only difference being the OP probably apologised instead of laughed at the outcome.

No matter how vigilant you think you are, and how in control you think your are, there will always be an opportunity for someone motivated enough to take control and wreck your bike.

[karinoushka]

Or still help, but after you ask and not by grabbing the throttle.

 

I think by full control he means hands on the handles while the engine is on. My boyfriend asked his motorcycling contacts. Their feedbacks is different as they identified two causes and two consequences. I opened the throttle and crashed his bike AND he left his engine running while not on the bike leaving room for anything to happen. Both at fault.

In the case of a hijack the rider has full control (engine on, hands on throttle), in my case he had not. Hand on saddle, arm fully extent and standing behind.

What gives me shivers is if a pedestrian saw him struggling, assumed his engine was off like I did, helped him by grabbing the handles instinctively and shot his bike on a kid passing by. Imagine how grave it could have turned out.

If I had known his engine was running I would have NEVER hold his handle. I know full well handle is throttle. I'm not stupid Joe.

[Guest]

I'm going 6 of one half a dozen of the other. Op shouldn't have grabbed throttle, and whilst the owner was in control he has left a significant risk by leaving engine on and therefore throttle active. I don't move chainsaws about at work with the engine on and chainbrake off, 99% of the time nothing would happen but the one time something did it would likely be horrible. Of course no one else should touch that saw but as a basic risk assessment I can see that there is a small chance something could happen so I remove the risk by applying brake or turning it off. Owner could easily have done the same and I'm sure he will in the future.

[Throttled]

I agree with goat. I have never heard that there are bikes that stays in gear when the throttle is closed. If an auto car is still in drive, you have to keep your foot on the brake to stop it creeping, or it puts on the handbrake (wife's VW stop/start system does that). So the bike has no accident prevention built in, so it is up to the rider to ensure the throttle cannot be accidentally activated. He would have been better to stop the engine.

[Joeman]

I've found the footage!!

https://i.imgur.com/INmRNjY.gifv

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I've found the footage!!

https://i.imgur.com/INmRNjY.gifv

 

Makes you realise that as soon as the bike starts to move the movement of the bike opens the throttle even if the person holding it isn't twisting it.

[Six30]

I've found the footage!!

https://i.imgur.com/INmRNjY.gifv

 

Karma is one of my favourite things