hydroflow clean

[anth_85]

I've got in touch with a local company in regards to getting a power commander fitted to my vfr800 vtec and it remapped to try and smooth out the rather violent jolting transition onto vtec. They have come back with this

 

It would be great to pop it on the dyno and get a base reading, then complete a Hydroflow decarbonisation treatment and measure again and then tune it...

 

this is the company

https://www.turbopacs.com/services/hydroflow-carbon-engine-clean/

To say I'm skeptical would be an understatement. Has anyone ever heard of it and had got an opinion before I look elsewhere for somewhere that will do what I asked for?

[skyrider]

sounds like they want to put it on a rolling road and screw the b******s off it like they do in the pits at the isle of man and just before they do that you will have to sign a form saying if they blow it up it isn't their fault, I would tell them to go forth and not bother multiplying

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Hydroflow - hmmm. Well it is a well known fact that if your headgasket blows allowing coolant into the combustion chamber then when you pull the spark plug from that cylinder it will be sparkly clean (as indeed will the piston crown and valves).

The same happens when you play with water injection systems.

So basically it's probably just bunging some good old H2O into the mix and calling it a fancy name.

[Mr Fro]

I think there was an episode of Wheeler Dealers where they performed this treatment so it might be interesting to search out the episode and have a look.

All they're doing is splitting water and burning it in the engine instead of fuel. I can't see how that would clean the shite off the back of the valves as they appear to claim but it's worth a punt I reckon, especially if they'd do a before and after dyno as a freebie.

[fastbob]

I think there was an episode of Wheeler Dealers where they performed this treatment so it might be interesting to search out the episode and have a look.

All they're doing is splitting water and burning it in the engine instead of fuel. I can't see how that would clean the shite off the back of the valves as they appear to claim but it's worth a punt I reckon, especially if they'd do a before and after dyno as a freebie.

 

That's where I saw it as well . I believe it involves running the engine on a special kind of petrol that has cleaning properties , something like that .

[ThePhatomfart]

https://www.topgear.co.uk/hydroflow

http://www.hydro-flow.co.uk/cms/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Hydroflow-A4-brochure_web.pdf

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

You can achieve much the same by having a small tube feeding water into the air intake. It's amazing how much water an engine can ingest without it affecting combustion. If anything the result are an increase in power as the water turns to steam which delivers more power (same effect as why engines run better in cool damp conditions). But with modern fuels it's not really necessary. I've stripped engines run mainly on supermarket fuels and there are very few carbon deposits after 100k these days. If you're getting carbon on the back of the valves it's usually problems with the stem seals leaking oil.

If you're worried just fill up with a big brand every now and again. The petrol is all the same, the big brands just use more additives than the supermarkets. Petrol tankers have several compartments in them. The same petrol goes into them all but different additives depending where the petrol is going. So the same tanker will deliver to Shell, Esso, Asda and Tesco. It all comes out of the same refinery.

[JRH]

Iirc some high performance cars had water injection systems when leaded petroleum was banned. The water injection stopped pre ignition, knocking, and helped to keep the cylinder temperature down. It also helped the mpg.

https://www.tsijournals.com/articles/improvement-of-fuel-efficiency-in-a-petrol-engine-by-using-water-injection.html

[Mr Fro]

You can achieve much the same by having a small tube feeding water into the air intake. It's amazing how much water an engine can ingest without it affecting combustion. If anything the result are an increase in power as the water turns to steam which delivers more power (same effect as why engines run better in cool damp conditions).

 

It would be interesting to do the calcs on that - given that turning water in to steam would incur losses, I suspect that there would be a net loss in power.

However, there would probably be a biphasic cylinder pressure map so potentially more energy could be utilised... But the second peak would be at a disadvantageous crank angle and the exhaust valve would open shortly thereafter... [/thinking out loud]

But yeah, water injection has been used on high power applications eg turbo, supercharger etc for donkeys where people couldn't manage to sufficiently cool the intake charge. It works alright but you're in the shit when you run out of water!

[anth_85]

If you're worried just fill up with a big brand every now and again. The petrol is all the same, the big brands just use more additives than the supermarkets. Petrol tankers have several compartments in them. The same petrol goes into them all but different additives depending where the petrol is going. So the same tanker will deliver to Shell, Esso, Asda and Tesco. It all comes out of the same refinery.

 

I'm not worried and I've run the bike exclusively on vpower since I got it but that was only 3500miles ago. I did a test and found I got about 3 or 4mph more on that which mostly offset the extra cost.

My understanding is this machine splits the H20 into h2 and 02. 20% of normal air is 02 anyway and is the bit that burns with the fuel, but the h2 is quite reactive and I think it's that that will react with the carbon deposits and therefore remove them.

[Gerontious]

My understanding is this machine splits the H20 into h2 and 02. 20% of normal air is 02 anyway and is the bit that burns with the fuel, but the h2 is quite reactive and I think it's that that will react with the carbon deposits and therefore remove them.

 

No.. it doesnt 'react' with the carbon deposits.

Spanner provided links to the two websites that give information on the gadget and its purpose and how it works. took me less than a minute to read everything i needed to know.

time is precious and its difficult I know to spare a minute out of our izzy wizzy (lets look busy) lives.. so I have cut and pasted the two relevant sentences.

 

HydroFlow uses electrolysis to split water (H2O) into its base molecules – 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen, creating Ortho-oxyhydrogen gas. When inserted into the air intake of a vehicle, this highly flammable gas acts as an additive – significantly improving the ignition of the fuel within the combustion chamber resulting in a bigger, more efficient burn.

The hydrogen’s higher burn temperature and explosive force literally strip away the carbon deposits that collect not only within the engine but throughout the entire exhaust system including catalytic converters and Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF).

 

So.. it doesnt 'react' it effectively uses a bigger BANG to blast away carbon deposits that have built up. Carbon deposits that any premium fuel (with detergents) should prevent forming anyway. All seems a bit pointless to me.. overkill of an unnecessary magnitude.