Lack of reputable CBT training places

[Dskywere]

Hey, I'm looking into getting a full A license after years of putting it off and going for a car license instead xD 

 

I'm quite shocked at the government website that is meant to list CBT training places, my postcode area is KA11 and here's what I'm up against (results in order of distance):

 

 

Pro-Bike Motorcycle Training (dead phone number, website and Facebook page)

 

Pegasus Bike Training (same as above)

 

Fast-Trak Rider Training (£1k excess to pay for any damage to the learner bikes(including dropping them) T&Cs state the 10 different ways you lose your CBT fee and need to repay, including for simply being late or not wearing "appropriate" clothing - this is also a motorcycle dealer and protective gear store  so sounds like a cash grab to me, especially when you look at their pricing)

 

Bike-It Motorcycle Training (website out of date, lacks any real information and dead email address)

 

I won't bore you with the rest of the listings but is there any legit motorcycle training centre in Scotland at all and one that doesn't charge rip-off pricing? I am old enough to do DAS but it would be a ball-ache having to stay at a hotel in England for 2-3 weeks just to get a motorcycle licence

 

for reference, a Nottingham-based place charges £950 for DAS including cbt and fast trak (that motorcycle dealer) charges £1150 <-- English prices are usually inflated so this Scottish place charging more than England is defo overcharging IMO 

 

Soooo any recommended places from the good people of this forum? 

 

cheers 

 

[Bender]

https://www.bikerschool.co.uk/

 

Probably looking at Glasgow to get anything remotely competitive.

 

I'm glad my school didn't have any excess for bikes, tbh it's the first time I've heard that.

[Dskywere]

2 minutes ago, Bender said:

https://www.bikerschool.co.uk/

 

Probably looking at Glasgow to get anything remotely competitive.

 

I'm glad my school didn't have any excess for bikes, tbh it's the first time I've heard that.

 

thanks, I'll have a look at the biker school website now

 

here are the T&Cs I'm referring to: Terms & Conditions (fastrakmotorcycletraining.com)

I'm glad I read them because I 100% think this is a money-grab business, they'll have insurance so I doubt a newbie dropping a bike will incur them any money loss  

[Bender]

12 minutes ago, Dskywere said:

 

thanks, I'll have a look at the biker school website now

 

here are the T&Cs I'm referring to: Terms & Conditions (fastrakmotorcycletraining.com)

I'm glad I read them because I 100% think this is a money-grab business, they'll have insurance so I doubt a newbie dropping a bike will incur them any money loss  

No wonder they left that till the end

 

Most 

Normal CBT places wouldn't charge £100.00 if you needed to com back for a bit extra training to pass it, Def sounds best avoided.

[Fish]

Thaat would depend if it's on the same day or if you have to comeback another day. Booking onto another day will stop them getting a news customer and costs would have to be covered.

[bonio]

On 07/01/2024 at 20:53, Bender said:

I'm glad my school didn't have any excess for bikes, tbh it's the first time I've heard that.

Me too. Gave their bike a good old drop. Tutor was very relaxed about it, picked it up and off we went. 

[Dskywere]

1 hour ago, bonio said:

Me too. Gave their bike a good old drop. Tutor was very relaxed about it, picked it up and off we went. 

 

which is exactly what I'll do more than likely (I can sense it lol) idk scotland just sucks for everything  I had a right faff doing my car licence like 10 years ago with flakey driving instructors that would cancel last minute or just sit parked up talking about how to do roundabouts instead of y'know doing them, after 7 instructors I ended up watching a couple of youtube tutorials (quite long ones but infinitely more informative), borrowed a car and a friend with a car licence (<-- for legal reasons) and just sat the test without an instructor, passed with 1 minor (use of speed)

 

pity I can't do the same with bikes - well technically I could with a 125cc after a cbt but I'm also not 17 and would prefer to get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time and not be overtaken by blooming Scania trucks xD - anyways rant over lol

 

I heard back from some English places, would take far too long sadly, it seems they don't like the idea of cramming a DAS course into 14 days and would prefer instead i take more time to develop skills, which is fine if Premier Inn didn't charge nearly £100 a night these days xD soooo dodgy stealership / training centre in ayr it is then! lol with that one famously dangerous roundabout with traffic lights and lines and squares (whitletts)

 

got the theory test booked for the end of February and my gear order isn't coming from sportsbikeshop until the 7th of March because of stock issues with rst apparently, but I did save over £100 in the sales so I'm happy to wait, I'll make a appointment with this dodgy place after i get gear then update with how much the cbt costed in the end haha xD

[S-Westerly]

Have you tried contacting Circuit Based Training in Mallory Park? They do DAS in 7 days I think. I know a guy who used them and rated them okay.

[bonio]

You can definitely do Das in a week - and even if you didn't pass you'd be well placed to retake in Scotland with not a lot of fuss. Stay in a youth hostel for £30 a night?

But why not first call up your local guys or even better drop in on them near the end of the day and see if you can like them.... can you find any reviews on them?

[RideWithStyles]

 

8 hours ago, Dskywere said:

 

which is exactly what I'll do more than likely (I can sense it lol) idk scotland just sucks for everything  I had a right faff doing my car licence like 10 years ago with flakey driving instructors that would cancel last minute or just sit parked up talking about how to do roundabouts instead of y'know doing them, after 7 instructors I ended up watching a couple of youtube tutorials (quite long ones but infinitely more informative), borrowed a car and a friend with a car licence (<-- for legal reasons) and just sat the test without an instructor, passed with 1 minor (use of speed)

 

pity I can't do the same with bikes - well technically I could with a 125cc after a cbt but I'm also not 17 and would prefer to get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time and not be overtaken by blooming Scania trucks xD - anyways rant over lol

 

I heard back from some English places, would take far too long sadly, it seems they don't like the idea of cramming a DAS course into 14 days and would prefer instead i take more time to develop skills, which is fine if Premier Inn didn't charge nearly £100 a night these days xD soooo dodgy stealership / training centre in ayr it is then! lol with that one famously dangerous roundabout with traffic lights and lines and squares (whitletts)

 

got the theory test booked for the end of February and my gear order isn't coming from sportsbikeshop.

 

well done on the driving, shame you had poor experience with the learning and licence system.

yes learning to ride is very expensive.

 

Its not what you ride its how you ride it (referring to the 125) even

 125s can beat normal cars off the line and getting to its top speed, overtaking is thread the needle , bikes are so much faster with so much less so dont judge to harshly. And no it not from rose tint or owt as i still get to ride a 125from time to time to this day as the wifey still has hers with only 8bhp from new so not even to the class limit.

Most likely not for most but they don't know you and don't know how you go about driving too which has a different aspect to vehicle control and behaviour on the same roads.

Yes if you have no background of riding like for some people ive seen even clutch and rev balance can really be a challenge, your coming from a long way it can be taxing and frustrating to make a deadline so that you're more likely to make mistakes...seen it and its not pretty.

 

yep i been to Ary a good few times nothing to bad about it so rest of the area is easy going.

 

sportsbikedirect are brill.

 

i like bonio idea, i mean even if you passed with your poor experience of the system before your might be still ok again but i wouldn't plan on saying to anyone it takes x amount of time...its a length of string.

Edited January 9, 2024 by RideWithStyles

[Dskywere]

9 hours ago, bonio said:

You can definitely do Das in a week - and even if you didn't pass you'd be well placed to retake in Scotland with not a lot of fuss. Stay in a youth hostel for £30 a night?

But why not first call up your local guys or even better drop in on them near the end of the day and see if you can like them.... can you find any reviews on them?

they have plenty of reviews from faceless wonders on Facebook, all from people who have never reviewed anything else so probably defo not fake at all >.> - not sure I could drop in on them without an appointment I think they use abandoned car parks - I put their address into Google Maps and this is what I found (below pic) - they have Instagram, lots of recent Spanish pics - I already know I don't like them, the guy has a resting mad face  but for the sake of the cbt it *should* be fine, doubt i'd risk over £1k on their das course 

 

 

10 hours ago, S-Westerly said:

Have you tried contacting Circuit Based Training in Mallory Park? They do DAS in 7 days I think. I know a guy who used them and rated them okay.

didn't know about that one, I'll check them out on Google

 

 

[Capt Sisko]

Those T&Cs don't sound unfair to me, you're dealing with a business, not some mates where it doesn't mater. If you're late it means that they may not be able to give you the full course that day and I bet you'd complain if come four o'clock they said, nah mate that's it for the day. It's your responsibility to get there on time. Get up earlier and allow plenty of time for the journey. As for "Or not wearing appropriate clothing", and quite rightly so. The DSA are allowed to you tell you that your test won’t go ahead if you arrive inappropriately dressed, why shouldn't at a driving school. Plus I bet their liability insurance has a similar clause. As for the excess, it does sound a bit steep, but many motorbike insurance policies have a default level of £500 and you chose to pay more if you want a lower excess. That said, I would also expect the school to fit some enormous crash bar front & back to minimise any potential damage. Bikes are a necessary part of their business and for them to be without one because of excessive damage is going to cost them money.

[Shasel]

I went with CMS Bike School in Aberdeen and they were great. Saw them giving CBT training while I was on my DAS and they seemed good at that too. Prices were competitive in my opinion. You can find them on Facebook and drop them a message. I used them as I live in Shetland so had to go to Aberdeen for my test.

[Shasel]

Just now, Shasel said:

I went with CMS Bike School in Aberdeen and they were great. Saw them giving CBT training while I was on my DAS and they seemed good at that too. Prices were competitive in my opinion. You can find them on Facebook and drop them a message. I used them as I live in Shetland so had to go to Aberdeen for my test.

Sorry should say I did mine in four days but I could ride and was confident on a bike at that point.

[peepae]

My motorcycle training school also had a 1k excess and the same T&Cs you mention - a student did drop it but considering it was covered  in crash bars for most potential issues - no problem that he did, cause crash bars caught it.

 

I expected  this to be case for most MC schools tbh

Edited May 5, 2024 by peepae

[Tinkicker]

On 12/01/2024 at 14:03, Capt Sisko said:

Those T&Cs don't sound unfair to me, you're dealing with a business, not some mates where it doesn't mater. If you're late it means that they may not be able to give you the full course that day and I bet you'd complain if come four o'clock they said, nah mate that's it for the day. It's your responsibility to get there on time. Get up earlier and allow plenty of time for the journey. As for "Or not wearing appropriate clothing", and quite rightly so. The DSA are allowed to you tell you that your test won’t go ahead if you arrive inappropriately dressed, why shouldn't at a driving school. Plus I bet their liability insurance has a similar clause. As for the excess, it does sound a bit steep, but many motorbike insurance policies have a default level of £500 and you chose to pay more if you want a lower excess. That said, I would also expect the school to fit some enormous crash bar front & back to minimise any potential damage. Bikes are a necessary part of their business and for them to be without one because of excessive damage is going to cost them money.

 

 

As an ex cbt instructor, ex motorcycle workshop manager and operations manager in what was once probably ( well in actual fact was) the largest motorcycle activity centre in Europe; may I wade in?

 

1. The first module in a cbt course at the time was the protective clothing module. No student was expected to know what to wear.  If they had it, fine, if not we provided it ( helmet and gloves) they were told the basics of what to wear on the day during the booking process.  Of course, this was probably 20 years ago.  No one ever turned up in a plunging neckline blouse, miniskirt and high heels. They wore what they had or could borrow that was most suitable.

 

2. Students were expected to turn up on time, but no student was ever expected to complete a cbt in one day.  Most did, but some needed further tuition. For whatever reason.  It is part of the cost of doing business.  Those poor sods who required further tuition usually found me teaching them as the standby instructor on call for " non routine" circumstances.  Generally it took a morning to bring them up to speed and conduct the road ride.

 

3. Some students crash bikes. Others dont. Crash repairs were an ongoing thing. You do not give a flying feck about scratches, which is the vast majority of the damage done on a cbt... You do however incorporate a damage waiver.  That, IIRC was £3 per session. That more than paid for any serious damage that occured to the bikes.  Maybe one out of 5 cbts, we would have to replace a broken lever that cost £1.50 and we had dozens in stock and every instructor had them in his kit.

If you are getting a lot of crashes, I would be looking at the quality of the tuition. The head of on road section and I would be constantly monitoring who crashed what. If an instructor has signifcantly more crashes than the norm, it was our job to find out why and take the appropriate action.

 

4. You do not fit modifications to any bike willy nilly. If your add on crash bars amputated someones leg and the lawyers found out out said crash bars were not part of the original vehicle design, you are in deep doodoo.  

You take your chances.  We did not fit crash bars as damage was not a major concern.  We did our homework and provided bikes that were suitable for the task, had good damage resistance and minimal repair costs. 

You could throw the venerable Yamaha SR125 down the road ten times a day and not scratch the paint.

 

5. Damage costs were nothing compared to general maintenance and depreciation of assets.  A drop in the ocean.  I can only recall one incident of what I would call major damage in 12 years on cbt bikes, and that was a smashed headlamp, broken front fender, smashed speedo and bent handlebars.

 

Edited May 6, 2024 by Tinkicker

[ColinWB]

@Dskywere how did you get on with your CBT in Ayr, with the crazy Whitletts roundabout/stopabout/squareabout?

 

I did mine today with Biker School Glasgow. Yes they had the excess for damaging their bike but that didn't happen to me . I had visited them before booking and they explained I would have to have my own helmet and gloves - they had some for sale but pointed me to J&S in Glasgow too, which is where I bought my gear.

 

On the CBT the instructor took me through the programme at a reasonable pace with plenty of checking that I'd grasped what he was teaching. My low speed control was initially jerky so we spent a bit longer on that until I was consistently smooth during low speed manoeuvres. That initial jerkiness was a bit off-putting so I was glad of the extra time. It meant a slightly shorter lunchbreak, but that wasn't a problem.  The yard was not the biggest but enough to get to third gear, briefly, and the road markings meant tight turns were required. After lunch, on the road it really started to come together and I was more confident in the real life situations than the simulated situations in the yard, so smoother but not perfect (in case you thought I was getting cocky). Like in the yard the instructor talked me through everything intially, then progressively less until he was only directing the route, or the couple of times when I forgot to cancel the indicator .  Back to the yard for the debrief and he was happy that I was competent enough to ride on my own, as was the other chap who was on the programme today.

 

It was a lot to take in on the day and it changed my perspective, for the better. My intention was to go to DAS as soon as possible but I will benefit from getting more road experience on a 125 and going for the full license next summer.

Edited July 3, 2024 by ColinWB