Wet Belt. A Very Lucky Escape.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

A wet belt is still a crap design though. 

 

Honda must be mad to start using them given what is known about their problems. 

[RideWithStyles]

I think you’re tough on yourself yet giving Honda too much credit. 
HGV,yellow goods, av etc are very different beasts and so their requirements are different. The amount of maintenance required to some of those things are just mental.

 

my mothers from new 2009 panda with 60thou now orange now turned green but cheap as  chips shite box (about £6k or so new i think),  for the last five or so years since retiring has done next to nothing and the last two years or so managed under 200miles, this is not a what I would say is a cared for car. When the odd time it had been borrowed it is definitely driven with the gusto of joyriding with no sympathy for what few miles would have been put on it.

No real preventative measures other than I replaced a weakened battery last year, the tyres need replacement through dry crack and rot than through wearing out.

the colour changing mould beast infested with so many spiders it would have made a good B movie, yet managed to fire to life, travel too and from to the total distance of about 60miles the old dear had to do without shiting its guts all over the place - the car I add, the old dear is another matter- lol. 
 
so if an “Italian” cardboard box manages that costed probably about 1/4 as much cope better, Japan engineers needs to look at themselves in the mirror and wonder.

Edited February 14 by RideWithStyles

[Bender]

This whole use the correct oil is a load of poop too, all the ones I know that have gone or were caught just in time all haf full dealer service with different males and dealers, would hate to see how quick they go if you use any old crap.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

2 hours ago, Bender said:

This whole use the correct oil is a load of poop too, all the ones I know that have gone or were caught just in time all haf full dealer service with different males and dealers, would hate to see how quick they go if you use any old crap.

Motor traders will tell you that full dealer service means not serviced properly.  

 

Independent workshop servicing means it's probably been done better. 

 

The last time I had a car serviced at a dealership they told me all the brakes were 80% worn. They turned out to be 25% worn at the front and 10% at the back. 

 

The workshop manager explained that since they don't remove the wheels they judge the brake wear by "guessing ". 

 

Needless to say I was not pleased. I didn't pay over £300 just for them to guess what was needed. 

 

[Bender]

Dealers don't have a great rep but I don't believe all have them have put the wrong oil in which was the bit I was getting at, the whole it's the oil thing is bollocks, some might degrade rubber quicker but it's not the sole or root cause.

 

[RideWithStyles]

A good independent dealer or a proper mechanic is better bet than even the manufacturers dealer in my humble opinion, cars or bikes……

 

oils have a lot of responsibility! Bar short of any basic design and metal problem, oil can be engineered to solve a load of shortfalls, weather it’s a compactiblilty, design, environment or social issue, too much or not or not enough of something can seriously fook an engine double quick time! Chemistry is amazing but can’t solve muppets in power or make decisions.

 

Edited February 14 by RideWithStyles
Auto correct bs from muppets that design shite and politicians

[Tinkicker]

Oil absorbes moisture.  Moisture corrodes engine parts.  Esp in the top end.. It is not rocket science....

 

I have had a beer or two and am about to say something I always try to avoid.   Stand down RWS. A tiny bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing.  You come from a sample of one.  I base my findings on a sample of a couple of thousand....

 

I apologise, but in my present state, I have to speak out. Perhaps in the morning, I will regret my words, I usually do, or maybe not.

 

I am a quiet bloke, but sometimes..... People yank my chain..  RWS consider my chain comprehensibly yanked.  I do not like the passive aggressive crap.

Edited February 14 by Tinkicker

[Tinkicker]

Laugh all you want...  The laugh icon.. The preserve of the passive aggressive) You do not look any better than you do right now in my eyes.

 

Goodnight sweet prince.

Edited February 14 by Tinkicker

[RideWithStyles]

I am not laughing at your state.

if you read the previous, it’s already answered.

im a little bemused on how on the honest information you’ve given you’ve don’t nothing wrong yet defended Honda  more so than fleck would have done to probably his last dying breath, even though it would have costed you thousands regardless. 

Edited February 15 by RideWithStyles
Lag

[billysugger]

I use to ride my 500 to work (and back), for 4 miles either way. When I did the usual maintenance/cleaning at the weekend I use to drain the breather tube, that had a stopper fitted to prevent leaking. The amount of dirty emulsified crap that came out was ridiculous,and was the result of the engine never reaching a decent temperature, and meant more frequent oil changes. Also possible its one of the reasons the conrod broke 

[Tinkicker]

8 minutes ago, RideWithStyles said:

I am not laughing at your state.

if you read the previous, it’s already answered.

 

 

But it was not answered.  The gen 10 civic engine is not designed by "japanese engineers" it is a German engine.. Jeeze.

[RideWithStyles]

German made and manufactured maybe but Japan is very particular, they test everything, they signs EVERYTHING off before hand many years before hand at a slow speed. Jeeze!

I think a little bit of Intoxication can be bad thing for some.

If im very wrong or done some untoward then I expect a message from Stu or mods bollocking or banning me. 

Edited February 15 by RideWithStyles

[Tinkicker]

You have done nothing wrong other than you sticking your foot firmly in your mouth.  I called you on it. (BTW do not try to play the victim card, another control measure used by the passive aggressive.  I spotted it for what it was immediately , I have had a little psychological observational training in a previous life...)

 

Lets leave it at that.  No worries. Tomorrow is another day.

 

I regret this situation, but you know what they say.... Never turn a quiet bloke.  While everyone else is talking, they are quietly observing..

Edited February 15 by Tinkicker

[Tinkicker]

Indeed RTW.  Confusion.  As part of my management training, we had a questionaire filled out about each one of us, by the other course members about how we perceived each other.

 

As a quiet and what I considered that I was a gentle, kindly bloke, I was very surprised to find that others found me to be quite intimidating.  How so?  No idea.  I know I have a very laser like focus, perhaps that is it, or perhaps it is that trivial BS smalltalk has no interest to me.

 

I do not fill the air with trivial words because I am uncomfortable with silence.. Maybe that is it also..

 

It certainly was not how I saw myself and still don't. I am a big softy.  I am always ready to offer help and support and cry real tears when a bloke in thailand on youtube plays his piano for his beloved elephants enjoyment... Neverless,  surface perception is everything.  

 

The greatest gift is to know thyself.  If not, your true friends will tell you.  If you piss them off...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15 by Tinkicker

[Tinkicker]

Well.. In the cold light of day that revved up.

Broke a major rule in going on my kindle when ratted.  It takes away my ability to sift the wheat from the chaff.

Never get offensive, but I do know I can get uncharacteristically contentious.

 

Apologies to all.

[billysugger]

Just think about biscuits, that usually does it. nothing inoffensive about biscuits (unless it's a garibaldi)

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

12 hours ago, billysugger said:

Just think about biscuits, that usually does it. nothing inoffensive about biscuits (unless it's a garibaldi)

Inspired by a few large helpings of Laphroaig....a very bad pun which on a few sci-fi needs will appreciate:

 

Garibaldi....isn't that taking the Michael?

[billysugger]

2 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

Inspired by a few large helpings of Laphroaig....a very bad pun which on a few sci-fi needs will appreciate:

 

Garibaldi....isn't that taking the Michael?

Ha ha, good old Babylon 5. I had the whole series in a box set including the films 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

9 hours ago, billysugger said:

Ha ha, good old Babylon 5. I had the whole series in a box set including the films 

Give that man a biscuit. 

[JRH]

On 15/02/2025 at 00:13, RideWithStyles said:

 Japan is very particular, they test everything, they signs EVERYTHING off before hand many years before hand at a slow speed. Jeeze!

Not always. When Honda were building the plant in Swindon I was the electrical design engineer for one of the main contractors.

i ended up being responsible for a large portion of the Japanese design team ( for our section of the plant) being replaced when I started to point out that large section of their flow diagram was incorrect and would not work. there were so many simple process errors that I began to question lol the design parameters but trying not to upset the Japanese mentality.

I suppose it was when I was so fed up with the errors that I for got diplomacy and stated “ I suppose when we get the over temperature alarm you want the heating to stop, not carry on as per the flow diagram”. The room went quiet the meeting was ended aaand I never saw several of the engineers again.

 

so much for testing everything before hand. 
 

 

Edited February 16 by JRH

[Bender]

Back on topic having had the biscuit and Babylon 5 diversion which was impressive even for here  

 

Biggest issue with wet belts is the whole design, running the belt in the oil, what ever causes the wear is secondary, because once you have bits of rubber clogging up the oil intake your doomed, timing belts snap and wear and bits came off them but they didn't cause engine wide damage before they went and you stood some chance, it's a silly idea and makes changing the belt a bigger job.

 

Cars now are 10yr and then classed as end of life it's ridonculous

[Mickly]

On 13/02/2025 at 23:14, Tinkicker said:

I learned and will alter my behaviour.  Missus groans about opening "her" gates on a weekend.

Isn’t this just normal conjugal rights aka Friday night bunk up ?

[RideWithStyles]

On 16/02/2025 at 11:07, JRH said:

Not always. When Honda were building the plant in Swindon I was the electrical design engineer for one of the main contractors.

i ended up being responsible for a large portion of the Japanese design team ( for our section of the plant) being replaced when I started to point out that large section of their flow diagram was incorrect and would not work. there were so many simple process errors that I began to question lol the design parameters but trying not to upset the Japanese mentality.

I suppose it was when I was so fed up with the errors that I for got diplomacy and stated “ I suppose when we get the over temperature alarm you want the heating to stop, not carry on as per the flow diagram”. The room went quiet the meeting was ended aaand I never saw several of the engineers again.

 

so much for testing everything before hand. 
 

 

Agree, Now I never stated they are always right because they aint, but they and other nations do have a way about things.

How many years and models did they carry on with the reg rectifier problem on Honda bikes…..well over 12years even when they used to design and release a model every year or two so they could have changed it ,but no….eventually something changed…same with their racing. Sometimes it works sometimes it just takes longer than you hope.

now to be fair it’s not just a Honda bash session cos others do have their own fair share.

Edited February 17 by RideWithStyles
Autocorrect

[JohnJive650]

Didn't realise non Ford's had the wetbelt issue. 

I swapped my Fiesta at almost 4yrs to avoid any issues. I now own a Yaris Hybrid. What a fantastic car 

[Steve_M]

On 07/02/2025 at 23:39, billysugger said:

I know someone that works on/deals with Ford's, and we were talking about engine development, wankel engines etc,and this wet belt fiasco. If he gets vehicles in with this fault they just change the whole engine, as apparently it's cheaper than stripping it to bits to change the belt. According to him it's because of the Euro5 regs on emissions they have no choice but to use wet belts

Our previous Focus had a full wet belt system, the one we own now has a chain AND wet belt! One each for separate functions (they did tell me but my brain shut down midway through the explanation). It seems that the local garage I use - a former Ford Dealership - has seen a few failures and belts needing replacing, most as a result of infrequent oil changes. The schedule is every 18,000 miles. We service ours annually - about every 10,000 miles, while it’s in for MoT. 
 

I asked about the wet belt replacement while it was in for service and they telll me they charge between £1200 and £1400 to do it alongside a service. The variance in cost is because of potential issues with various bolts etc. seized etc.