Conflicting advice

[JTDG]

Currently in the middle of doing training for my full license. But I am confused by a couple of things my instructor has said.

 

1 - Approaching round about, was apparently hesitant (there was a gap but I came to a stop) he said we should always be assessing ahead, and if we see a safe space to go, because if we slow down suddenly the gap is no longer safe. Next round about, clear view to the right, access, and drive on (we were taking second exit, there was a just approaching what would have been my third exit) it’s a pretty big round about. Got told it would be a fail as “what if you slipped crashed and was in the middle” ???? So if I stop it’s hesitant and if I push on it’s a fail? 
 

2 - Car on roundabout, indicating to turn off, I wait until he’s moved as I was always told “don’t trust others” he said I should have went what am I waiting for. Okay noted. Few roundabouts later, car indicating, I pull out, car doesn’t turn off “that’s a fail as you pulled out” 

 

3 - At a junction, I looked left and right, safe (car in distance) but plenty of space to get out safely. Told I should wait “what if you dropped the bike” few junctions later (pretty much identical) I remember what he said so I stop and wait “why are you waiting, we assess and if it’s safe we go” that’s a mark against you as it’s showing your not assessing.

 

Basically I’m just confused, I keep getting conflicting advice, and it’s making me far more nervous. I would understand if I had no road experience, but I do drive a car (I know it is different) but understanding when it’s safe etc seems pretty common sense? 

Edited March 10 by JTDG

[Simon Davey]

54 minutes ago, JTDG said:

Currently in the middle of doing training for my full license. But I am confused by a couple of things my instructor has said.

 

1 - Approaching round about, was apparently hesitant (there was a gap but I came to a stop) he said we should always be accessing ahead, and if we see a safe space to go, because if we slow down suddenly the gap is no longer safe. Next round about, clear view to the right, access, and drive on (we were taking second exit, there was a just approaching what would have been my third exit) it’s a pretty big round about. Got told it would be a fail as “what if you slipped crashed and was in the middle” ???? So if I stop it’s hesitant and if I push on it’s a fail? 
 

2 - Car on roundabout, indicating to turn off, I wait until he’s moved as I was always told “don’t trust others” he said I should have went what am I waiting for. Okay noted. Few roundabouts later, car indicating, I pull out, car doesn’t turn off “that’s a fail as you pulled out” 

 

3 - At a junction, I looked left and right, safe (car in distance) but plenty of space to get out safely. Told I should wait “what if you dropped the bike” few junctions later (pretty much identical) I remember what he said so I stop and wait “why are you waiting, we access and if it’s safe we go” that’s a mark against you as it’s showing your not accessing.

 

Basically I’m just confused, I keep getting conflicting advice, and it’s making me far more nervous. I would understand if I had no road experience, but I do drive a car (I know it is different) but understanding when it’s safe etc seems pretty common sense? 

 

For want of a better description, your instructor sounds like a bit of a tosser.

 

Have you mentioned this to him/her, if not, maybe you should because it's your pass or fail, and not theirs.

Perhaps go over their head and talk to other training staff?

[RideWithStyles]

Driving a car is different and with the idea of a comfortable safety cage can make people to complacent and reckless. At the end of the day just because you drive a car and now trying for a bike doesn’t mean your comparing apples to apples, its apples to lemons at best.

There is a line….a fine one to put it blunt.

At some points maybe you were in too much of a rush/making too much progress at the risk of safety at first but then with advice you went too hesitant, Just a thought.

SD - putting forward of “its your pass or fail”, no its the examiners pass or fail and the instructor would have a good idea as to what that is to achieve a pass.

[Fender1515]

I was taught to interpret the movement and direction of the vehicle, and where the driver is looking, a flashing indicator does not control the direction of the vehicle. 

But I am not sure that helps in a test situation, just the staying alive stuff

[Fiddlesticks]

Not sure about the exact situations, but there is always a judgement call to be made: the tension between making progress and undue hesitation.

 

Junctions you can think of as "closed" or "open" - the former being where visibility is limited and you need to stop and look. The latter you can approach at a sensible pace while looking to flow onto the major road PROVIDING it's safe and doesn't cause anyone else to take avoiding action.  As long as you're under control and can stop safely before the line if you need to. Plan ahead is the key.

 

Roundabouts are complex junctions. Normally you'd aim to flow onto them without stopping, but the usual rules apply regarding having enough space. 

 

I'd always give way to both lanes when joining, as you never know when a vehicle on the roundabout is going to change lanes.

 

But the bigger issue seems to be the friction between the student and instructor.  I've had some "challenging" instructors in my time,  and I'm sure they'd say the same about some of their students. Either you're getting:

 

1. poor advice

2. poorly communicated good advice
 ... or a third option..

3. good advice, well communicated - but you're not listening

 

I don't think it's 3.

2. could be worth sticking around for and gritting your teeth.

1. would be a good time to shop around.

 

I have noticed some instructors seem focused on what you do wrong and come across as very critical. It's nothing personal, and if you can get past it there's usually plenty to learn. He won't bite your head off for asking to clarify. 

Edited March 10 by Fiddlesticks

[bonio]

It's hard for us to know what advice to give, as in each case you mention, we've only got a slim idea of the whole situation. But there's one thing that seems odd in what your instructor's saying - "what if you'd slipped and crashed", and "what if you'd dropped the bike". Was there any reason for him to say this? I mean, was there diesel or gravel or wet mud all over the road? Because, in normal riding situations, you don't ride with the idea in your head - "If I go now and I drop the bike, then I'd be unsafe, so I'd better wait".  So for him to put that idea into your head is, well, odd.

At best, your instructor isn't very good at explaining things. Perhaps he saw a real reason for you to wait in those two situations, but he couldn't it into words, and so you got this non-explanation instead? Or perhaps Simon's right and he's just a bit of a tosser. From your point of view, either option leads to the same suggestion: go find yourself another instructor. Perhaps with another school.

 

Edited March 11 by bonio

[JTDG]

7 hours ago, bonio said:

It's hard for us to know what advice to give, as in each case you mention, we've only got a slim idea of the whole situation. But there's one thing that seems odd in what your instructor's saying - "what if you'd slipped and crashed", and "what if you'd dropped the bike". Was there any reason for him to say this? I mean, was there diesel or gravel or wet mud all over the road? Because, in normal riding situations, you don't ride with the idea in your head - "If I go now and I drop the bike, then I'd be unsafe, so I'd better wait".  So for him to put that idea into your head is, well, odd.

At best, your instructor isn't very good at explaining things. Perhaps he saw a real reason for you to wait in those two situations, but he couldn't it into words, and so you got this non-explanation instead? Or perhaps Simon's right and he's just a bit of a tosser. From your point of view, either option leads to the same suggestion: go find yourself another instructor. Perhaps with another school.

 

Nothing on the ground, hadn’t rained, it was a main roundabout so no dirt or gravel. Nothing at all. It was a roundabout by a motorway (so pretty big) we were coming down from 60mph, I approach at around 15mph (second gear) clear view, hadn’t had any wobbles or anything that would make someone think I would drop it. “Always assume worst case” which I get. We don’t have a steel car around us to protect us, but surely we can’t drive around assuming we might consistently drop the bike. Progress would never get made. 

[JTDG]

9 hours ago, Fender1515 said:

I was taught to interpret the movement and direction of the vehicle, and where the driver is looking, a flashing indicator does not control the direction of the vehicle. 

But I am not sure that helps in a test situation, just the staying alive stuff

I can only speak from learning in a car and diving a car. Some people are absolutely clueless, protected by a steel box or not I wouldn’t trust someone’s indicator at all. But if I’m going to get marked down for understanding that seems crazy. I’m not wanting to die anytime soon. 

[Yorky]

I'm with SD.

 

On reading your opening post I was thinking this instructor sounds like a knob, apparently so did SD.

I would say sort it out with him or move on to someone more proficient.

[Bender]

I can get most of the points above but it's all just our opinion.

 

You have to work out if 

 

A your instructor is an inconsistent dick

B He's right and your reading the situation wrong.

 

 

My instructor always had us upto the speed limit if it was safe as holding others up was a no no.

 

He also taught that hesitation is frowned upon but so is putting your self at risk

 

Safety for you and other road users is paramount.

 

On my test I rolled upto a busy roundabout picked a gap and went straight into the flow, I actually managed to loose the examiner for a good while because of that , after the pass he did comment that I was clearly very confident at the roundabout,  he asked why I dropped back from a bus that wasn't indicating, because I had seen the bus stop up ahead and people had started standing up.

 

Everything is subjective, the only way you may be able to answer A or B is by trying another school.

 

Not everyone actually liked my instructor as he came across very blunt with a dry sense of humour hidden somewhere, but what he did was teach me to pass the test and impart some of his many years of knowledge into my riding along the way.

[bonio]

1 hour ago, Bender said:

he asked why I dropped back from a bus that wasn't indicating

This is the sign of a good instructor or examiner. A lot depends on what you've seen and why you've made the decision you did, and a good instructor or examiner will want to find this out.

[Bender]

1 hour ago, motobeans said:

50mph is hardly holding up traffic is it?

In the eyes of my instructor yes it was.

 

He always had us away from lights as quick as you could and upto every speed limit unless there was a reason not too, I did find it very odd having to do this but that's what he wanted so that's what we did, I was only ever overtaken once by a prick in an Audi and the instructor called him much worse.

[Fiddlesticks]

Instructor is not the one wielding power - he's there to get you through the test.

 

The examiner makes the decision on the day.

 

50 in a 60 I don't think should be a fail in itself, but could be a minor fault for hesitation.

 

Too many minors (or a single major) and you'll earn a fail.

[Bender]

That's your opinion, I rode like that on my test and passed with 0 faults.

 

I like how you now think 2 instructors are wrong, mine had over 40yrs experience on a bike, competition, courier and instructor.

 

You appear to have an issue taking advice.

[Blackholesun]

I always went the speed limit on my test. Dropping the bike seems unusual questions 

[S-Westerly]

I drive / ride at the speed limit. I get irked when someone is pootling along on a NSL road. On the bike it's an excuse to zip past. In the car it's as frustrating as hell.

[RideWithStyles]

 

Wife went through the cbt a few times .

some students pick up well while others take a while or just don’t…even if a instructor is with all the good will trying to help.
Problem being some need to care and soft kids touch and some react better to more sterner inputs, difficult to know when you’ve just meet someone, been paid and expected to get them across the line in little time.

 

wife almost got run over and pinned to the wall by a fellow female student while they were in the grounds doing slow speed stuff as the other student totally lost control, narrowly miss her and rammed the bike into the wall…her day there ended there, so wife was paired with another small group.
when a young lad decided to pull out of a junction right infront of a wagon, it wasn’t only the tyres that got ruined that day.

all that in one day!

these instructors have the care and duty with randoms they only meet and the general public. give them death machines and have to take care of them and other while they cant have full control of the situation, very unpredictable and stressful stuff for any instructor. 

 

My instructors car and bike- safety is paramount not just for you but others, rule was do the limit if the conditions allow, if you not wanting to do that then maybe private transport isn’t for you.

 

If weather and conditions are good and your doing 50 in a 60, pretty much every vehicle will want to overtake, also hgv, slowly and clogging/chocking the road as other vehicles are stuck behind and being impeding from making progress which is is not meant to happen, bit like when two lorry’s are other taking eachother on a two lane road. Now the two lorry’s can’t help that particularly as they are at near maximum they can do but need to make progress- its annoying but through no fault.
so your being the slowest vehicle for no real reason other than show unconfidence ( this puts you and others at risk) at best thats a minor but can be more if that’s once or twice happened, tallying up to a major which I suspect is what was said or suggested. 

Edited March 12 by RideWithStyles
Autocorrect

[Fiddlesticks]

The confidence thing is a good point. It's not just speed.

How you handle being overtaken is something the examiner will assess.

Swerve left, wobble, hug the kerb - he won't like it.

Hold your line, do all your observations - he'll be much happier.

[JTDG]

Couple of interesting bits came up over the next few sessions (he did clear up some of the previous points) 

 

Not to use the rear break during the slalom or figure of 8 (before I went with him, I did a taster session and was told 100% use it during those manoeuvres to help balance) 

 

Filtering, we got to a roundabout to turn left, temporary traffic lights it was backed up. I sat behind the large vehicle as I didn’t want to just sit at the entrance the roundabout as I would block cars wanting to take second exit, but also didn’t want to sit behind a large vehicle. I mentioned personally I would go around and filter up the middle of the lane normally on my 125. He said he would 100% as would most examiners and while they would probably be impressed at the confidence to not do it, which I do agree with (they won’t know my plans, plus it’s another thing I could get wrong so why risk it? ) but in that situation he said it’s kind of a lose lose, as both choices are kinda not great. 
 

So just curious has anybody filtered on their mod 2? By our test centre is an insane amount of temporary traffic lights and with a hospital nearby it’s a nightmare. 

 

Edited March 26 by JTDG

[Throttled]

On 10/03/2025 at 19:37, JTDG said:

Currently in the middle of doing training for my full license. But I am confused by a couple of things my instructor has said.

 

1 - Approaching round about, was apparently hesitant (there was a gap but I came to a stop) he said we should always be assessing ahead, and if we see a safe space to go, because if we slow down suddenly the gap is no longer safe. Next round about, clear view to the right, access, and drive on (we were taking second exit, there was a just approaching what would have been my third exit) it’s a pretty big round about. Got told it would be a fail as “what if you slipped crashed and was in the middle” ???? So if I stop it’s hesitant and if I push on it’s a fail? 
 

2 - Car on roundabout, indicating to turn off, I wait until he’s moved as I was always told “don’t trust others” he said I should have went what am I waiting for. Okay noted. Few roundabouts later, car indicating, I pull out, car doesn’t turn off “that’s a fail as you pulled out” 

 

3 - At a junction, I looked left and right, safe (car in distance) but plenty of space to get out safely. Told I should wait “what if you dropped the bike” few junctions later (pretty much identical) I remember what he said so I stop and wait “why are you waiting, we assess and if it’s safe we go” that’s a mark against you as it’s showing your not assessing.

 

Basically I’m just confused, I keep getting conflicting advice, and it’s making me far more nervous. I would understand if I had no road experience, but I do drive a car (I know it is different) but understanding when it’s safe etc seems pretty common sense? 

 

The conflict is between what you perceive as a safe gap and when to proceed and what your instructor does. Possibly, the best resolution is a switch of instructor. I change riding schools during my training, due to not getting on with an instructor's opinion and instructions, and then later, I became his boss at work! The look on his face when I appeared was priceless!

[bonio]

My instructor taught me to filter, but we only did it when we were going to and from a test route. When we were practising test routes, there was no filtering. I kind of got the idea that you don't filter on a test. My guess is that you can't get a minor for not filtering, but you could get one for doing it where the examiner thinks it was unwise.