Convicted Rioters Should Loose Benefits.

[Ash]

I don't believe being intimidated by the threat of them comitting more crime is a valid enough reason to let them get away with what they have done. That in my veiw is giving in to them.

[sparkeh9]

I don't believe being intimidated by the threat of them comitting more crime is a valid enough reason to let them get away with what they have done. That in my veiw is giving in to them.

 

I agree with that

[Aaron]

IMO, a retarded petition initiated by people who's emotions overrule their brains

 

I totally agree

 

Can either of you expand on this?

On one hand I see it causing mass problems as more resort to crime etc

But on the other many of them were resorting to crime anyway so perhaps taking it away would just save money that could be used to clean up their mess.

Its split very evenly but consider how this could be handled. When you take away a childs pocket money what do you make them do to get it back? You say they should be good.

Same with teens on the EMA, if they abuse it they have it taken away and "have to be good" so to speak to get it back.

So it isnt "retarded". As there is a way of handling it which would help sort and better the system you love to moan about. Taking it away outright might not be the solution but there is a way of handling benefits that could be realised here.

 

One of the primary reasons governments don't like to see their citizens destitute is that people in that situation are desperate. And desperate people are dangerous. Unless you're going to introduce ghetto style annexes for these people with bigh high walls around them, then this isn't really somewhere we want to be.

Further to that, most of the "rioters" were very young. These kids represent a significant chunk of our country's future, and tt's not too late to 'fix' some of them.

It's perfectly understandable that the idea that we should try to help them seems offensive. But at the end of the day it's our houses burning down and our businesss being looted. It's our choice. Take a step now that is guarenteed to create, and set a precident for creating, gangs of desperate dangerous (and bear in mind that what we've seen so far is mostly dangerous through stupidity rather than intent) animals ? Or don't take that step - Don't cut of one's nose to spite one's face.

Now, what wil imediately jump to the front of people minds is ""Hey, but then we're working our arses off, being suckers, to pay for these scumbags that don't deserve it".

There are solutions that would make life better for all of us, and at the same time, for the most part, eliminate this problem. But this is a broader topic.

For now it comes down to the two options i've already mentioned. To have hoards of dangerous, desperate, killer thugs in our cities? Or not.

I'm open to any third options though.

[Stu]

ffs another thread for people to spout crap about "the system" on to

[Aaron]

ffs another thread for people to spout crap about "the system" on to

 

The clue is in the thread title It's easy for anyone to simply not click it.

[Stu]

The clue is in the forum title its easy not to talk about it

If you want to talk political bollox go find a political forum where people give a shit

[Roadtorque]

The thing about this is all the little shits that are robbing & looting, in a few years time will be having & raising their own little breed of shits,

so what sort of standard & manners will these parents pass on to their offspring ,,

[Ingah]

The clue is in the forum title its easy not to talk about it

If you want to talk political bollox go find a political forum where people give a shit

Other bike forums have things like a "current affairs" forum section, for precisely these kind of discussions (e.g. http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewforum.php?f=47 ). Just an idea, as then you can have a mod policing the "current affairs" section that enjoys moderating it, rather than having these kind of threads in general chat (gotta be honest, i've generally got to be "in the mood" to participate in these kind of discussions too. Sometimes i just cba, and want to chill out instead )

[Aaron]

The clue is in the forum title its easy not to talk about it

If you want to talk political bollox go find a political forum where people give a shit

 

As a suggestion, this could be more explicit then: "This section is for threads which do not fit into any other section of the forum".

12 page long threads full of people arguing about political issues implies that lots of people do give a shit, even if they don't realise it.

Describing something as 'bollox' simply because you don't understand it is silly.

Anywho... I won't bother with these 'general' chats anymore as my teleprompter seems to be malfunctioning and causing people spit out dummies.

[Susieque]

IMO, a retarded petition initiated by people who's emotions overrule their brains (i'm not in favour of benefits at all, btw. but the system has to be viewed as a whole => big off topic subject).

 

I'd be interested to know what sanctions you would consider appropriate for these law-breakers?

[techno]

IMO, a retarded petition initiated by people who's emotions overrule their brains

 

I totally agree

 

Unbelievable, you moan that people should have a view and "give a shit" and then deem it retarded, at least whoever started the petition wanted to have their point heard and fair play to them for that!

Whats probably more retarded is the fact that youll spend hours at a keyboard moaning about the situation and its causes and doing endless research but then conforming to the same system and rules.

[TC]

Well My two lads (17 & 18) Can't get ANY benefits. Not even a bus fare to college.

They both work part time in the evening and went into Manchester to help clean up the mess.

People deal with the aftermath of this on different ways Someone has started a Petition which has got people signing up to it, not retarded at all IMO (if anything) it shows that people are fed up with the currant situation as it is.

I Proud of what my Lads have done as i'm sure the parents of the people that started the petition are.

The idea in principle is a good one. But IMO unworkable, Maybe more community service instead, so the tugs have a reason to get up in the morning and will acheive something positive during the day.

[Bogof]

IMO, a retarded petition initiated by people who's emotions overrule their brains

I totally agree

Can either of you expand on this?

 

How do you propose they take benefits away from the 11 year old girl that was last night charged with criminal damage?

On a more general point.... Remove their sole source of legitimate income, and what have they left to live on other than the proceeds of more crime?

Ill thought out knee jerk reaction to a situation. The proposer must be a politician.

[Nogin]

Even after reading this thread, I'm still firmly on the "Take there benefits away" side.

I look at it this way, if they work and get convicted and keep their job then thats fine, they are paying taxes so be it, but why should I pay towards these F***wits who go around smashing up businesses.

The should loose there right to a council house and also benefits. I suspect that many are involved in crime anyway. As for anyone who is not getting benefits like the 11 year old, perhaps a spell in a young offendes will do the trick!

I'm sick to death with seeing hard working, honest, decent people being made a fool of by our society and its soft courts.

[Throttled]

IMO, a retarded petition initiated by people who's emotions overrule their brains (i'm not in favour of benefits at all, btw. but the system has to be viewed as a whole => big off topic subject).

 

I'd be interested to know what sanctions you would consider appropriate for these law-breakers?

 

I would like to see court appointed officials going round to looters houses were they then smash their way in, take away all their posessions and then set their possessions on fire whilst the looters have to stand by and watch. Then they would know what it feels like.

On a more realistic note, I would like all looters to be given an automatic compensation order of £2000 to be paid into a fund towards the victims. That money can be taken from benefits and if the looter is too young for such, parents benefits for failing to look after their child.

[Stu]

Describing something as 'bollox' simply because you don't understand it is silly.

 

sorry i didnt realise you knew everything about me aswell as politics

where did i say i didnt understand it? i understand it all fully its my choice not to post about it just because your high up on your pedestal doesnt mean everyone else is going to be

 

The clue is in the thread title It's easy for anyone to simply not click it.

 

oh and by the way with me been site owner i do read majority of stuff on here as part of moderation to keep topics like these from running riot

[cyberwolf]

Describing something as 'bollox' simply because you don't understand it is silly.

 

sorry i didnt realise you knew everything about me aswell as politics

where did i say i didnt understand it? i understand it all fully its my choice not to post about it just because your high up on your pedestal doesnt mean everyone else is going to be

 

The clue is in the thread title It's easy for anyone to simply not click it.

 

oh and by the way with me been site owner i do read majority of stuff on here as part of moderation to keep topics like these from running riot

 

and whats wrong with topics running riot, it pass some time reading it lol

[mattyb]

Having just come back from a country that has no benefits system, cities full of beggars/robbers and large areas complete no-go zones at night I don't agree with this at all. If you remove social services from those who need it (regardless if they've committed crimes or not), they'll not just wither up and disappear, more likely we'd end up unable to go out in cities at night and crime would get miles worse.

We have a legal system to deal with people who break the law, e.g. rioters. If that's not working properly then the solution surely is to fix the legal system. Not to just give up and start removing social services or deciding that humans suddenly lose human rights because they broke a law.

[Ash]

Having just come back from a country that has no benefits system, cities full of beggars/robbers and large areas complete no-go zones at night I don't agree with this at all. If you remove social services from those who need it (regardless if they've committed crimes or not), they'll not just wither up and disappear, more likely we'd end up unable to go out in cities at night and crime would get miles worse.

We have a legal system to deal with people who break the law, e.g. rioters. If that's not working properly then the solution surely is to fix the legal system. Not to just give up and start removing social services or deciding that humans suddenly lose human rights because they broke a law.

 

Wow, hang on a second. Things are being taken way out of perspective here. Nobody is for one minute suggesting an end to social services and human rights. Just because those who are convicted of rioting/looting over the last few days lose their entitlement to benefits, does not mean we are all of a sudden going to see thousands upon thousands of criminals wondering the cities. Several hundred would likely lose their entitlement now and It would be a massive put off for anybody wishing to do it in the future who was on benefits.

[Fozzie]

How do you propose they take benefits away from the 11 year old girl that was last night charged with criminal damage?

On a more general point.... Remove their sole source of legitimate income, and what have they left to live on other than the proceeds of more crime?

Ill thought out knee jerk reaction to a situation. The proposer must be a politician.

 

Ban her from ever accessing benefits. Though a young one is easier to set right, fine the parents also as what the hell was an 11 year old doing there?

It does go on to more crime you are quite right, but we arent taking it away from all of them. And repeat offenders will only make it worse for themselves if they are caught.

Whats the solution? Go back to the way it was as ive heard it said it was the way it was that caused the riots...

[Throttled]

This was a major topic on Question Time last night. The way I see it is that if I commit a crime I will lose my job, possibly my house as well and hell mind the impact on my family. If someone gets made redundant the same can be true. Yet if you commit a crime you can retain your benefits (so long as you are not sent to prison) and social housing as it is apparently unfair to imapct on the rest of the family.

A major reason why I do not commit crime is so as not to lose my job and impact on my family. That deterrent does not exist for those on benefits and in social housing.

So either I cannot be sacked for commiting a crime and people who are made redundant cannot have their houses taken from them and let benefit claimants have their status quo, or we should all face the same consequences.

I say we should all face the same consequences as it will become a major deterrent to committing crime.

[queen bodecia]

Crime pays, there's no deterrent to it. Career criminals make a very fine living from crime. Taking benefits away from opportunist criminals risks turning them into career criminals, unless of course they are simply too stupid for this. I suspect successful career criminals are generally rather intelligent.

[Paul]

It will never happen simply because this (punishment) was thought up by the public and not the government. They wouldn't be seen dead acting upon something the oiks thought of and not them!!

[Tango]

I say bring back the stocks!! I'm sure some of those poor shopkeepers whose shops were looted would be more than happy to supply some rotten fruit and veg.......

[Guest Spire]

First rioter to face eviction. Hopefully they will kick any others out that were involved and have coucnil houses.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-13/london-council-moves-to-evict-rioters/2837708?section=world