Arming all Police?

[MrBrightside]

Was having this discussion last week and I think it's an interesting topic after what's tragically happened in Paris. Now that air strikes look inevitable, which places us at even more risk, what's your opinions on arming all Police considering all other European countries are fully armed?.... I'm certainly not after a Police bashing thread, just honest views.

Ta,

Mart

[fq-craigus]

Seeing some of the officers we have no!! Just look at america with all the rash shooting from officers

[Glorian]

I don't think ALL police should be armed, We will turn into america if we go down that route with these shootings and cops being charged like murderers. From what a guy i knew in armed response once said, if they ever actually shoot anyone, they are put on leave and have so much paperwork to complete. Every bullet fired has to have a statement pretty much.

I think we should have more armed response units available instead.

[Arwen]

No. Arming the police will not do change anything other than make the public more uptight.

Part of why I like this country is that our police rarely carry guns. And I think that is excellent.

If we are in a position where we need people with guns in every town, then deploy the army. They are better trained for gun fights.

[Hoggs]

Personally I don't think all police need to be armed as I don't think for the majority of the time they would need to be (most people here don't have guns).

I know armed officers are at "high risk" areas (Downing street, Buckingham palace etc), but do they need to be armed in a town High Street? Is a shopping centre high risk? Would armed police officers be a deterrent to terrorists (probably not), would they be able to prevent it happening? Debatable.

Am I asking more questions than I am answering? Maybe.

As a law abiding citizen I have no problems with the police

[Fozzie]

We needed a quick armed response unit, but not out on the streets.

Maybe guns with rubber bullets at most but eventually someone will hit the ground badly, or be hit in a way serious harm or worse is inflicted and we will have endless debates on their need.

If terrorists strike, they hit areas where response is slow enough they have time to deal carnage. Arming police doesn't help. A terrorist group will just take positions, walk up behind them, and shoot them first basically.

This is Americas gun laws biggest fault. They think they are defenceless without guns, but with them, the crook knows to just sneak up behind you.

[MrBrightside]

We all just straight away think of America. The problem with America is that guns are built into their culture. In Europe things are different. You don't see this happening to the extent that it does in America. And the answer to 'have you seen some of our coppers?' ...yeah I totally get that but there are idiots in every job.

Take London. If anything happened there, the chances are there would be officers very close by, at any time of the day. If they are unarmed then they can not respond, if they are armed then they have the chance to stop something and actually save lives.

Rubber bullets/baton rounds are not viable. Range/accuracy and reload times are far too bad.

I think this is quite interesting and I wonder if views would change drastically if something happened say in London?

I'm actually on the fence on this at the moment as I can see both sides, but knowing what I know, it's bloody scary all the same.

[NeilM]

Remember the shooting dead of an unarmed person in Rastrick nyd 1992.

Well he was killed by a highly trained armed responce officer.

Even they get it wrong.

Imagine the carnage and yes I do mean carnage if every ob had a gun.

I used to and still do to some extent travel all over watching the football. Believe you me the best I can say is thier is good and bad in all walks of life.

I've had my civil liberties taken from me on numerous occasions from south yorks to the met. (No other walk of life do you jump off the train at kings cross n are then told where you can go)

On the other side I've been helped out by them on several occasions.

As a foot note.

My mates a DS in west yorkshire.

The poor bloke who killed the unarmed bloke (was waving a toy gun around whilst dressed asca cowboy ) never worked again.

[MrBrightside]

Yeah, that's just it. People do get it wrong, but the results are dire.

I personally don't think it's gonna happen anyway.

[Hoggs]

I think this is quite interesting and I wonder if views would change drastically if something happened say in London?

 

Like the 7/7 bombings? I don't think armed officers could have done anything in that instance and I don't recall any increase in the call for armed officers from people living here.

This post sounds a lot more arrogant in text form that in my head! It's not meant to be

[MrBrightside]

God no, don't think your being arrogant, it's people's views I'm after.

Your right, 7/7 wouldn't have been stopped by armed officers, but a Paris/Mumbai style attack could be.

[Gin]

I don't think ALL police should be armed, We will turn into america if we go down that route with these shootings and cops being charged like murderers. From what a guy i knew in armed response once said, if they ever actually shoot anyone, they are put on leave and have so much paperwork to complete. Every bullet fired has to have a statement pretty much.

I think we should have more armed response units available instead.

Though from a friend I have, who recently left the police, it's all too much paper work but I do agree with Glorians statement here; makes them think seriously before pulling the trigger.

Maybe more units of highly trained officers available to respond to urgent and sever cases, but not every copper on the beat.

I have a lot of respect for coppers in the UK, always have done and always will but think that people in the UK feel safer when they're not armed. I know this sounds bizarre but if I saw a copper on the beat with a pistol on his hip it would make me more nervous.

The only armed coppers I have ever met have been the most stoic, decent and respectful guys. I would trust them with my life in a critical situation.

[Fozzie]

The people that attack are lunatics. The paris mob were on drugs as it helped focus them and take away the fear of dying, which was a certainty.

Arm the police and you don't save people. Accidents will happen and kill more over a length of time than the terrorists can currently manage in their sprees.

Good armed response yes. Guns on the street no.

You bring guns, they will bring bombs, and then we will start shooting people who look like they have bombs, then you'll kill someone innocent. And so it escalates.

[Mr Fro]

Looking at some of the wannabe cowboys in the MET, I'd say probably not. However it would I think be prudent to provide firearms training to a larger number of officers to give extra support to SF in the event of a major incident.

[MrBrightside]

I have to agree with you Foz, and Gin.

fro, yes, agree, but obviously not about the Cowboys the Met has a chequered past but they do the same job as the counties, just busier.

[Gin]

Though..

All this is a little irrelevant when the powers of the higher police and the politics of law above them are so bloody awful..

No point getting the firearms squads trained to the highest quality when they're constantly bound and gagged by red tape and a failing prison system..

[TC1474]

Back in the 80's, a serious debate was held about arming all Police 24/7. A number of things came out of it.

95% of serving coppers (including me) stated that we would resign if we were routinely armed. In the UK policing is by consent, which means that citizens are policed by citizens with the consent of the citizens, not by the military.

It was felt that introducing full time armed Police would simply increase the number of firearms incidents on the basis that violence breeds violence.

The risk of making a mistake was a too higher price to pay. We were taught to talk our way out of trouble and at worst, use the minimum amount of force required to restrain the offender. You ony have to look at recent incidents in the USA to see how badly this has worked.

We have cowboys in Police cars, imagine that same cowboy with a gun. I used to know someone from our DPG who used to go shopping with a civy jacket on but with his gun poking out underneath or with his jacket undone. Simply he was showing off, but the potential reprocussions could have been enourmous.

We have a very capable armed response team in every force. They are trained to deal with the stress of carrying a gun as well as the potential implications of using the gun, bearing in mind every shot fired has to be accunted for, and then on top of that, if they do shoot someone, there is the investigation that has to be carried out to determine whether the shooting and therefore the injuries and/or death were lawfull.

I have freinds who serve in places like Germany and Italy where they carry a gun all the time, and as they have told me on several occasions, there are those who have become trigger happy, especially when the threat level rises. That trigger happiness or carlessness (call it what you will) will occur here if we armed our Police.

The implications of our Police being routinely armed are potentially horrendous, hence the reason why it was not intoduced back in the 80's, but then we were from a different era and a different breed.

[MrBrightside]

Tony I think it's still the same. There was a survey 2 years back from the federation and the majority voted against. Violence does breed violence. this is what sets our country apart. But...we are faced with ever evolving threats, not just from terror but very well armed London gangs etc.

It's taken this long to get Taser to response teams (very limited numbers mind).

Yes armed response teams are very capable, but are there enough of those teams? Debatable.

[Fozzie]

Well f**k me sideways...

A political thread on TMBF where everyone seems to agree

[MrBrightside]

I know

Just wait 'till later though

[NeilM]

Ooohhh I don't know Fozzie.

Can we not get into some good old yorkshire police slagging....lol

[Six30]

Yeh , I think they should, as some one said cant compare us to America, guns are in thier culture, what's a copper going to do if 2 or 3 gunman burst into a shopping centre with machine guns, blow his whistle at them or get close enough to spray his pepper spray, time he radioed through and armed response unit turned up 100 or so people could be dead.

[Hoggs]

but very well armed London gangs etc.

 

Yeah Wood Green and Tottenham Hale have quite bad reputations and I can think of a few incidents in the last four years but I think the majority were stabbings rather than shootings (which isn't really better but I'm not sure the gun gang problem is quite as bad as some fear mongering media will have you believe).

Chris Rock had an amusing stance on gun control... (well made me laugh at least)

“You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Man, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders.

Yeah! Every time somebody get shot we’d say, ‘Damn, he must have done something ... Sh*t, he’s got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.’

And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. ‘Man I would blow your f**king head off…if I could afford it.’ ‘I’m gonna get me another job, I’m going to start saving some money, and you’re a dead man. You’d better hope I can’t get no bullets on layaway.’

So even if you get shot by a stray bullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you got my property.”

[Joeman]

Working in London I see armed police most days, so im not phased by them. But in small community policing, having an armed officer turn up on a little old ladies doorstep could be very intimidating. I assume the majority of policing is about working with citizens to resolve issues peacefully. Having a side arm wont help with that any might make the police seem less approachable.

Thankfully gun crime like mass shootings are rare, why equip police for something that very rarely happens?

Arsen attacks are more frequent, maybe make all cops carry fire extinguishers! Lol

[Six30]

Working in London I see armed police most days, so im not phased by them. But in small community policing, having an armed officer turn up on a little old ladies doorstep could be very intimidating. I assume the majority of policing is about working with citizens to resolve issues peacefully. Having a side arm wont help with that any might make the police seem less approachable.

Thankfully gun crime like mass shootings are rare, why equip police for something that very rarely happens?

Arsen attacks are more frequent, maybe make all cops carry fire extinguishers! Lol

 

cause we got big red trucks with hoses that put out fires.... It's called the fire brigade