EU... in or out

[RantMachine]

@ Six30:

Well, put it this way... We didn't do those things before the EU introduced them. Admittedly it's unlikely that we'll suddenly go LOL NO MORE EU LETS SHIT ON THE BEACH. But we flat out didn't bother introducing such things in the first place, ergo the EU has had a positive influence thus far and so stands to continue doing so.

To put it another way... Once upon a time, your parents cooked your dinners. Taught you to speak. Paid the rent/mortgage and bills for the roof over your head. Brushed your teeth for you. All that sort of stuff. But eventually you grew up and started doing those things for yourself. Just because you don't need them to do all that stuff for you any more, doesn't make it any less important that they taught you in the first place. If nobody ever taught you all those things, you wouldn't be doing them. You probably would've found your own ways of doing things, but just like any feral child you'd be crapping in the bushes, talking in grunts and shrieks, and hoping to god that the next handful of berries you ate weren't poisonous. Thankfully you did learn how to function as a human being, and carrying on doing so allowed you to function independently to a greater degree. But... you didn't disown your parents, did you? And when they tell you something, their opinions still count for something? They didn't ban you from their house, and you know that you can turn to them when you're in trouble just the same as they can turn to you?

In the same way, we're unlikely to stop doing all the positive things that the EU introduced, but would we have done them if we'd always been on our own? Looking at everything we did prior to the formation of the EU... probably not. We would've take a very different course, and wouldn't have a lot of things that we take for granted. Of course we would've done some positive things on our own, but that's just more of the speculation that this debate is overflowing with. The way I see it... Mum and Dad have gone off the rails a bit as they've grown older. We've grown up and become our own person, formed our own opinions on things, but have started to take everything they did for us for granted. It's up to us to give something back now, and do everything we can to convince Mum and Dad to sort themselves out and be just as much of a positive influence as they were when we were kids - and if we tell them we're done with this family, you can bet they won't listen any more. We're out of the will. Better hope that violent alcoholic uncle Sam will watch our back from now on.

[Joeman]

Good argument for staying in. Left to their own devices, our governments would resort to being feral children making up all sorts of nonsense.

We've been in the EU for a long time. Many of the things listed would have come about regardless of the EU. So you can't say we should stay in the EU just because a bunch of progress happened whilst we've been members.

[RantMachine]

Good argument for staying in. Left to their own devices, our governments would resort to being feral children making up all sorts of nonsense.

We've been in the EU for a long time. Many of the things listed would have come about regardless of the EU. So you can't say we should stay in the EU just because a bunch of progress happened whilst we've been members.

No, that's very fair. I think that an argument to stay "In" should be tempered by "...but we need to spend less time and effort focussing on a 'fairer deal for Britain' and more time focussing on 'a better EU all round, that hasn't lost sight of everything it can be'". We aren't perfect, the EU isn't perfect, but right now we're the ones screaming EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF, TO THE LIFEBOATS instead of helping to fix the leaks. Germany is telling everyone else exactly how to fix the leaks, but nobody remembers putting it in charge. Greece is running around with a drill like an idiot. France is sitting in the corner complaining about its own trivial problems. And that makes Turkey... the piranha swimming outside? I dunno

But if we made more effort to fix the ship, we might just be better off in the nice big ship instead of the little inflatable raft. If it doesn't work out... the ship hasn't sunk yet, and this isn't the only chance we'll ever have to man those lifeboats. Hell, at least we aren't chained to the ship like all of the Eurozone countries.

[Six30]

@ Six30:

Well, put it this way... We didn't do those things before the EU introduced them. Admittedly it's unlikely that we'll suddenly go LOL NO MORE EU LETS SHIT ON THE BEACH. But we flat out didn't bother introducing such things in the first place, ergo the EU has had a positive influence thus far and so stands to continue doing so.

To put it another way... Once upon a time, your parents cooked your dinners. Taught you to speak. Paid the rent/mortgage and bills for the roof over your head. Brushed your teeth for you. All that sort of stuff. But eventually you grew up and started doing those things for yourself. Just because you don't need them to do all that stuff for you any more, doesn't make it any less important that they taught you in the first place. If nobody ever taught you all those things, you wouldn't be doing them. You probably would've found your own ways of doing things, but just like any feral child you'd be crapping in the bushes, talking in grunts and shrieks, and hoping to god that the next handful of berries you ate weren't poisonous. Thankfully you did learn how to function as a human being, and carrying on doing so allowed you to function independently to a greater degree. But... you didn't disown your parents, did you? And when they tell you something, their opinions still count for something? They didn't ban you from their house, and you know that you can turn to them when you're in trouble just the same as they can turn to you?

In the same way, we're unlikely to stop doing all the positive things that the EU introduced, but would we have done them if we'd always been on our own? Looking at everything we did prior to the formation of the EU... probably not. We would've take a very different course, and wouldn't have a lot of things that we take for granted. Of course we would've done some positive things on our own, but that's just more of the speculation that this debate is overflowing with. The way I see it... Mum and Dad have gone off the rails a bit as they've grown older. We've grown up and become our own person, formed our own opinions on things, but have started to take everything they did for us for granted. It's up to us to give something back now, and do everything we can to convince Mum and Dad to sort themselves out and be just as much of a positive influence as they were when we were kids - and if we tell them we're done with this family, you can bet they won't listen any more. We're out of the will. Better hope that violent alcoholic uncle Sam will watch our back from now on.[/quote

You forgot the bit about my mum and dad filling my house full of immigrants....

And this week I have mostly been eating berries

[RantMachine]

You forgot the bit about my mum and dad filling my house full of immigrants....

On that note I'm gonna loop back to the numerous posts I've made containing statistics on how much immigrants bring to our economy vs how much they take from it... short version, on a purely financial level, we get back more than we give. The money we get back in tax from working immigrants exceeds the cost to our welfare bill for those that don't work. And that's statistics from reputable bodies like the University of Oxford, not just speculation. Also, I should refer back to the fact that there are 1.5 million British people who are permanently settled in other EU countries thanks to our EU membership, and leaving the EU is going to f**k them over royally. Remember, we're immigrants too as soon as we leave these shores.

 

And this week I have mostly been eating berries

Y'got me

[adriansk]

This appeared on my timeline so thought I'd share on here.

Alright, you filthy animals. I don't normally do this, because I believe that everyone should have the right to vote how they want at elections, but a) this ain't an election, it's a referendum so go shit yourself, and b) I honestly believe that the stakes are too high for me not to get involved here. If I can influence even one person with this post, then I'll feel like I've done something important. As a result, feel free to share this far and wide as I've done a veritable f**k of research and I don't want all my hard work going to waste.

So, I'll put my cards on the table: I believe, very very strongly, that we need to stay in the EU. I never thought I'd find myself agreeing with David 'PigFellatio' Cameron, but in this unfortunate case I am, and here's why.

We stand to gain SO MUCH from staying in the EU. "How much", you're (probably not) asking? Well, I made a convenient list for your perusal, WITH sources, so you can't be a twat and say 'you're making that up!' and froth at the mouth like a rabid ****.

I know people on the internet like listicles with clickbait titles, so here are "14 Reasons Why We Shouldn't Leave The EU That Everyone Should Know! You Won't Believe #8!":

1) The EU provides easy access to 1/3 of the world's markets by value (in other words, the EU's combined market value is 1/3 of the entire world's, and we can tap into it whenever the f**k we want). [1] It also gives UK businesses preferential market access to over 50 countries OUTSIDE the EU, including some of the fastest-growing economies in the world like South Korea and South Africa. [2]

2) The EU gives us better product safety. You know, so your toddler doesn't impale him/herself on a shittily designed toy, or swallow a load of poisonous plastic. [3]

3) The EU gives structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline (hello, Cornwall). [4]

4) The EU gave us lead-free petrol. [5]

5) The EU gives us cheaper mobile charges. [6] It also gives us cheaper air travel. [7] f**k yeah, cheap things!

6) The EU gives us cleaner beaches, rivers and air (hello again, Cornwall). [8]

7) The EU gives us improved consumer protection and food labelling, so you actually know what it's in your Chicken McNuggets (hint: it's chicken. It wasn't always chicken, though). [9]

8) The EU has helped break up monopolies. [10] If you don't know why monopolies are a Very Bad Thing, try playing the popular board game 'Monopoly' and see how many friends you have left when you win.

9) The EU gives us cross-border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling, and terrorism. [11]

10) Being a member of the EU means no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market, as well as the freedom to travel, live and work across Europe. [12] This one is particularly important for me as someone who likes to live, work and travel abroad. Do you have ANY IDEA how f**king great it is to be able to travel and work visa-free?! Having to a get a visa for every single country you enter is a nightmare, believe me. If you've ever tried to travel around Asia, Africa or South America, you'll understand what I'm saying.

11) The EU creates and helps uphold all kinds of awesome human rights, such as equal pay legislation, holiday entitlement, and the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime. [13] I'd also like to point out that it's some of these same human rights that David 'PorkTwatter' Cameron tried to erode back in 2014, with the EU playing a major role in stopping him. [14]

12) The EU creates and upholds all kinds of great animal welfare legislation; it has the strongest wildlife protection laws in the world and contributes to improved animal welfare in food production. [15]

13) The EU funds incredible scientific research and industrial collaboration (including, most recently, a project that may be the catalyst for a cure for breast cancer being found in the next few years, I shit you not). [16]

14) Finally, and arguably most importantly, the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after many years of bloodshed. [17] It has also assisted in the extraordinary social, political and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980. [18]

SOURCES:

[1] http://news.cbi.org.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/eu-business-facts/10-facts-about-…/

[2] http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-13-1080_en.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[3] http://ec.europa.eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/general_product_safety_d…/index_en.htm

[4] https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/european-structural-and-inve…/

[5] http://ec.europa.eu/environme" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/…/project/Projects/index.cfm…

[6] https://www.theguardian.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/europe-abolishes-mobile-phone…

[7] http://europa.eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/citizens/travel/passeng…/air/index_en.htm

[8] http://www.theguardian.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/england-beaches-bathing-waters…

[9] http://ec.europa.eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/la…/labelling_legislation/index_en.htm

[10] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/European_Union_competition_law (I know I'm not supposed to use Wikipedia as a source for its less-than-rigorous academic standards, but f**k YOU I'm not in uni anymore, I'll do what I like).

[11] http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…

[12] http://ec.europa.eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/borders-and-…/visa-policy/index_en.htm

[13] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/European_Convention_on_Human_R…

[14] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;…/David-Camerons-plan-to-scrap-t…

[15] http://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/welfare/index_en.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[16] http://cordis.europa.eu/project/rcn/94691_en.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[17] The Second World War, motherfucker. Read a history book.

[18] The Cold War, motherfucker. Read a history book.

And now, let's take a moment to address some of the arguments for leaving the EU. Apart from the fact that I can't find a single reputable study that suggests we'd be any better off outside of the EU (and believe me, I've looked; I want to research my counterarguments as thoroughly as my arguments), the most persuasive arguments I've found are what I'm going to term 'the trade argument' and 'the immigration argument'.

The trade argument goes as follows: if we left the EU, we could negotiate a sort of 'amicable divorce' where we somehow retain strong trading links with the EU while not being subject to its laws. Many people point to Canada as a good example of this model, which recently negotiated a CETA (Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement- do I have to google EVERYTHING for you?) with the EU. I have two retorts to this argument. My first retort: Canada was never a part of the EU in the first place. To return to the divorce analogy outlined above- whereby the EU and the U.K. are a sort of 'married couple' and trade is their kids- the U.K. seeking a CETA after leaving the EU would be like a nasty, messy divorce where one parent uses the kids as a weapon against the other, threatening to take them away whenever their demands aren't met. Canada's CETA, meanwhile, is like a married couple approaching someone else to have a threesome at a swinger's party, which sounds a lot more fun and exciting, I'm sure you'll agree. My second retort to the above argument is simple: why even take the risk? If we stay in the EU, our trade with them will continue to be prosperous and full of great sex while the kids are asleep (okay, I've taken the analogy too far now). If we leave, however, there's a chance any trade agreement could fail catastrophically and leave our economy in a shitstorm. In fact, I would argue the likes of Germany, France and other leading EU nations would not simply let us pick and choose what rules and trade agreements we adhere to, so the likelihood of us being absolutely fine, trade-wise, after leaving the EU seems overly optimistic. Plus negotiating a CETA of any kind could take years and have a completely uncertain outcome. Again, why take the risk? An additional point: arguments no. 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 11, and 12 above are examples of really great laws and regulations the EU has introduced. If you say you want to leave the EU so we have autonomy over our own laws, you know that you're effectively handing control of our country over to David 'HideTheSausageLiterally' Cameron, don't you? In terms of making laws that benefit all of us, I trust the EU way more than that guy.

The immigration argument tends to centre around the whole 'visa-free work and travel' thing, and is generally espoused by people terrified of dem immigantz stealin are jobz. Alternatively it's espoused by people afraid of terrorists being able to come here more easily, but for that I'd refer you to point no. 9 above; we're safer from terrorism in the EU because we can share intelligence and resources with other countries more easily. But back to the 'stealing our jobs' fear; while it's true that technically speaking there could be an influx of foreigners coming to claim your particular job at any moment, just remember, we've been part of the EU for 43 years now and it hasn't happened yet, despite what the mainstream media may tell you (and you DEFINITELY shouldn't trust those guys; more on that later). Seriously, do you know ANYONE, personally, that has had their job stolen by a foreigner? Be honest now. I'd be willing to wager that you don't, and I'll explain why that is too: the immigrants that are coming here are not stealing YOUR jobs, specifically. They're either starting their own businesses (in which case they're actually creating jobs), or they're skilled labourers taking jobs there just aren't enough trained British people to take (such as doctors or surgeons), or they're unskilled labourers taking the jobs that you don't want (like toilet cleaning or washing dishes). Incidentally, about a year ago I taught English to some Eastern European immigrants who worked in a salad-packing factory in Lichfield. One Latvian girl was actually a teacher back home, but she was making more money as a salad-packer here than she was as a teacher in Latvia(!)- the point being that unskilled immigrant workers are generally happy to work shitty menial jobs that no British person wants, and your cushy 9-to-5 office job is not under threat. Not even a little bit- so don't worry your xenophobic little head about it. Oh, and one last thing on this subject, to paraphrase Louis CK: maybe, if an immigrant with no contacts, no skills and no local knowledge of the language and/or culture can steal your job, maybe, just maybe, you're shit at your job.

If you've made it thus far through this absolute essay of a post, congratulations! You're nearly at the end! But before I go, I just want to hit you with one final thought. Over 80% of UK newspapers are owned by five right-wing media billionaires (aka five massive cuntstacks): Lord Rothermere (Daily Mail), Rupert Murdoch (Sun/Times), Richard Desmond (Express), and the Barclay Brothers (Telegraph). Murdoch is an Australian living in New York and Rothermere lives in France, while the Barclay Brothers live in the tax havens of Monaco and Guernsey. All of them use tax haven entities to avoid UK taxes. And guess who wants to stop billionaires using tax havens to avoid paying their taxes? That's right, the EU. So of COURSE the British newspapers are trying to persuade you to leave the EU; it benefits their owners personally. The moral of the story is, don't gather your views from newspapers. Do some research like I have with this post, you lazy twonknoggin.

In conclusion: we're in a really great position right now. We're part of the EU with all the benefits that entails, but without being tied to their notoriously unstable currency. Leaving the EU would not only be hypocritical since we spent so much time telling Scotland they shouldn't leave the UK this time last year with all that lovely 'better together' rhetoric, it might also be downright stupid and harmful to our economy.

tl;dr version: Vote to stay in the EU, you filthy animals. Because reasons. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

EDIT: thank you to everybody who made me internet famous for the day. You're all sweethearts. If you'd like to read more of my filth-ridden political thoughts, please tune in to my new blog.

https://glwtf.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

If you haven't read this, please do. Good read.

[RantMachine]

As an aside, I think the most important thing in all of this is that we recognise that the referendum is a diplomatic approach to our future in/out of the EU. They may have made their feelings on it very well known, but at least the government is giving us all our say. I'm sure that Blair would have just chosen for us with his usual "I know best" attitude and that shit eating grin. And by extension, whatever the outcome, we all have to recognise that it is the will of the majority. If we leave, it was because more people wanted it than not. If we stay, the same is true. So, whatever happens, I will be reminding myself that the path we follow was chosen by our majority, not by one or two twats in Downing Street. It may not be the path I would have chosen, but equally my path is not the one that others would take. The best we can do is go with the majority, and dammit we're doing it for once. My biggest hope in all of this is that once the referendum is done, we don't have a bunch of sour grapes from the losing side and an immediate demand for another referendum. That's the thing that pissed me off most of all with the Scottish referendum... "Oh, the people want to stay in, albeit by a slim majority. But WE want to leave! So we're gonna push for another referendum as soon as we can, because f**k public opinion". So, if we as a country choose "out"... fine, that's what we want. I won't keep on barking about my opinion after the matter is settled. Hopefully everyone involved will have the dignity to do the same. That's meant to be one of our national virtues, isn't it? Dignity? Let's see if we can pull it off

Oh, and I'm also SO glad that nobody in this thread has resorted to the "A VOTE FOR [iN/OUT] IS UNPATRIOTIC" because that's just the most closed minded, pathetic, and retarded argument imaginable. Go TMBF! Not the worst place on the internet just yet (even though Glorian keeps trying)

[Six30]

You forgot the bit about my mum and dad filling my house full of immigrants....

On that note I'm gonna loop back to the numerous posts I've made containing statistics on how much immigrants bring to our economy vs how much they take from it... short version, on a purely financial level, we get back more than we give. The money we get back in tax from working immigrants exceeds the cost to our welfare bill for those that don't work. And that's statistics from reputable bodies like the University of Oxford, not just speculation. Also, I should refer back to the fact that there are 1.5 million British people who are permanently settled in other EU countries thanks to our EU membership, and leaving the EU is going to f**k them over royally. Remember, we're immigrants too as soon as we leave these shores.

 

And this week I have mostly been eating berries

Y'got me

 

Not got a problem with immigrants coming here working and paying in to the system but we all know there are a fair few who's intentions are sinister and if you deny that you need to be eating more berries son.... and British people settling in EU countries are people with money that will put into the economy of what ever country they settle in , and I won't be an immigrant if I leave these shores I'll be a holiday maker....

Next patronising speech from the remain gang please

[RantMachine]

You forgot the bit about my mum and dad filling my house full of immigrants....

On that note I'm gonna loop back to the numerous posts I've made containing statistics on how much immigrants bring to our economy vs how much they take from it... short version, on a purely financial level, we get back more than we give. The money we get back in tax from working immigrants exceeds the cost to our welfare bill for those that don't work. And that's statistics from reputable bodies like the University of Oxford, not just speculation. Also, I should refer back to the fact that there are 1.5 million British people who are permanently settled in other EU countries thanks to our EU membership, and leaving the EU is going to f**k them over royally. Remember, we're immigrants too as soon as we leave these shores.

 

And this week I have mostly been eating berries

Y'got me

 

Not got a problem with immigrants coming here working and paying in to the system but we all know there are a fair few who's intentions are sinister and if you deny that you need to be eating more berries son.... and British people settling in EU countries are people with money that will put into the economy of what ever country they settle in , and I won't be an immigrant if I leave these shores I'll be a holiday maker....

Next patronising speech from the remain gang please

 

Hey now, no need for that - I could come up with plenty of mean things to say about the leave gang if I wanted to, but so far I've been focussed on the issues themselves rather than the people raising them

And yes, you're quite right, there are always a few bad eggs. But isn't it a bit like when they introduced laws against carrying a knife in a public place? Anyone who was carrying a pen knife because it's damn useful was inconvenienced by it. And anyone who was planning on stabbing someone with a knife... well, they didn't have a problem with the whole "don't stab people" law so I'm guessing that a ban on carrying the knife in the first place isn't going to put them off

If people want to come over here and blow themselves to bits on our public transport, they'll find a way. Nowt stopping them coming over as a tourist, after all. And that doesn't even take into account all the home-grown nutters, of which we seem to have a fair share. Booting out all the immigrants will only end up punishing the well behaved ones. At worst, it might even push some of them to remain here illegally - and illegal immigration is a much bigger problem than the legit kind. Cash in hand illegals are the ones that really end up undermining our job market... And of course, if we don't know they're here then how can we police them effectively? Etc etc

[Joeman]

Knife laws... buy whatevery knife you like in France, UK - get arrested for anything more sinister than a sharp spoon!!

Example of UK specific laws that have no relation to Europe that have come into force during the time UK have been EU members.

If we leave Europe, expect more laws that prevent good people carrying useful tools.

[MarkW]

Speaking as a concerned entomologist, the thing I want to know that nobody in the Brexit camp has yet addressed is whether leaving the EU would protect us from the Asian hornet. After all, bees and wasps kill as many people in the UK as terrorists, and these little buggers don't even need to go to the effort of forging documents to get here. I wonder why this overblown and rabid xenophobia doesn't extend to invertebrates...

[Joe85]

Personally, I think we should just execute anyone who shares their shit opinion on Facebook via an unfunny, ill-informed wall of text, then tot up the body count from either side of the debate and declare a winner.

If a draw is declared, the 2 remaining sanctimonious bast*rds will be forced to fight to the death, with keyboards, delivering the first true "keyboard warrior".

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mpl]

Is it "ill-informed" ( at least he has shown sources rather than just state things as a fact) or is it because you don't agree with it?

My experience so far of conversations with Outers is statements and memes that have been proved to be wrong- after that it's either been "freedom of speech" or la la la la I'm not listening.

[Six30]

Is it "ill-informed" ( at least he has shown sources rather than just state things as a fact) or is it because you don't agree with it?

My experience so far of conversations with Outers is statements and memes that have been proved to be wrong- after that it's either been "freedom of speech" or la la la la I'm not listening.

 

what statements by the outers have been proved wrong ?

[rennie]

This thread has just about managed to last 30 odd pages!

I don't want to have to lock it now!

Disagree, discuss, enjoy!

But! remember! personal attacks will not be tolerated!

[Six30]

This thread has just about managed to last 30 odd pages!

I don't want to have to lock it now!

Disagree, discuss, enjoy!

But! remember! personal attacks will not be tolerated!

 

Terry get over ere , some ones been personally attacked !

[Joe85]

Is it "ill-informed" ( at least he has shown sources rather than just state things as a fact) or is it because you don't agree with it?

My experience so far of conversations with Outers is statements and memes that have been proved to be wrong- after that it's either been "freedom of speech" or la la la la I'm not listening.

Funnily enough I was actually referring to the "Out" speech but thought it only fair to include "in" so as not to hurt any feelings.

Facebook rants annoy me. Especially the ones that end with "share if you love your kids...etc etc"

[MarkW]

I think Mark should be the TMBF candidate for PM.

How did I miss this?

I accept, and shall start assembling my cabinet at once. Who's in?

[Oasis]

I accept, and shall start assembling my cabinet at once. Who's in?

 

Is it one of those funky ones from Ikea?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[MarkW]

I accept, and shall start assembling my cabinet at once. Who's in?

 

Is it one of those funky ones from Ikea?

Do I take it that was your application for the post of Minister for Entertainment?

[Oasis]

I accept, and shall start assembling my cabinet at once. Who's in?

 

Is it one of those funky ones from Ikea?

Do I take it that was your application for the post of Minister for Entertainment?

Aye why not! Have you heard the one about the nun stuck in an Ann summers Factory.......

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[MarkW]

Is it one of those funky ones from Ikea?

Do I take it that was your application for the post of Minister for Entertainment?

Aye why not! Have you heard the one about the nun stuck in an Ann summers Factory.......

Go on...

[Oasis]

Will tell you more after the referendum [emoji38]

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[MarkW]

Knife laws... buy whatevery knife you like in France, UK - get arrested for anything more sinister than a sharp spoon!!

Example of UK specific laws that have no relation to Europe that have come into force during the time UK have been EU members.

If we leave Europe, expect more laws that prevent good people carrying useful tools.

This is my concern. Almost every bit of regulatory stupidity I have had to deal with over the last 16 years has emanated from the UK, not Europe. In fact the only way I can get anything done for my clients is to bypass the UK entirely and go to one of the more pragmatic Member States. Some years ago I was involved in a project with the Cabinet Office to look at the regulatory burden in my industry. Guess where almost every piece of brainless bureaucratic bullshit came from? It certainly wasn't Europe!

Most of the things the Brexit supporters seem to want don't have anything to do with Europe, and I can't help thinking that they will end up being sorely disappointed if we leave. But then the EU has become a larger and more reviled version of the Health and Safety Executive: a national whipping boy for all those who never allow the facts to cloud their opinions.

[Six30]

Listen.... If immigration hadn't been let to get how it is now, then the vote would be to stay in I'm sure.

Cameron is saying we are a great country and will prosper if we vote out now.... so when will that be Dave after the World War that was going to happen if we left