I wonder if children who can't speak can see ghosts

[RantMachine]

An exchange of diverse views is a bit different to "HERE IS MY VIEW AND IT IS RIGHT"

[Joeman]

Look at it scientifically. Does a ghost have mass? No? Then how is it bound to the earth? The earth despite not feeling it is barrelling through space at 67,000mph. Like neutrinos they'd pass through the earth and carry on.

If they have mass and can be observed by a human they are detectable yet never have been. So the conclusion is they don't exist and it's much more likely a weakness of a brain capable of imagination.

 

 

You can't say that a object that you've never measured doesn't have a mass. That's a huge assumption.

And just because something hasn't been detected doesn't prove it doesn't exist.

Currently nearly 30% of the known universe can't be accounted for. It's known as Dark Matter.. it can't be directly observed, but it's existence is widely accepted.

[JRH]

Nuf said

[Fozzie]

At rant: I didn't say it was right, only probable.

Which means I'm admitting a better theory could wipe it out or even be better. There are varying degrees of right and wrong. Propose a new theory or back up a current one and I'll listen to it.

Joeman. You are right, but ghosts float generally. So they seem not to be bound by gravity unless they produce energy. But I still can't get over no camera or other detection device ever producing clear evidence. It becomes a bit of a chase for Bigfoot.

Also it's not 30%. It's 95/96% unaccounted for due to dark matter and dark energy. We know it's there as we measure the interactions it has. But science has now found light is actually quite a rare thing in the universe. Scary really

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[Joeman]

Depends which scientific papers you read as to what percentage of the universe is "dark"..

Nasa reckon about 27% dark matter, 68% dark energy.

http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But the existence of ghosts has neither been proved or disproved.

If you consider the simulation hypothesis where we all exist in a computer simulation (again neither proved or disproved ) it's possible that ghosts are a software glitch - sectors of RAM that haven't been fully cleaned... but that's a whole other topic.

[Joeman]

(deleted duplicate)

[Fozzie]

I do like that hypothesis. A simulated reality would raise monster questions to answer. But it's a philosophical suggestion that is used a lot as a thought experiment. That's why I haven't gone further with it.

My own rationalisation is based in the multi-verse theory. The universes are stacked so close together that a similar event in another is projected to the other albeit weakly.

This would explain why ghosts are most often seen at night as they'd be a low energy event, and have little or no interaction.

It would be why we see dead family members in our homes as in another universe they are still with us there.

Only issue is there's currently no physical way the manifestation can occur. And why it would be limited to small life forms and not say a different version or location of the moon.

Thought provoking stuff though!

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[RantMachine]

[JRH]

If you consider the simulation hypothesis where we all exist in a computer simulation (again neither proved or disproved ) it's possible that ghosts are a software glitch - sectors of RAM that haven't been fully cleaned... but that's a whole other topic.

 

Matrix

Or even The hit hikers Guide To the Galaxy

.

http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Mice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Throttled]

I have heard footsteps walk down a corridor but no one was there. I know of very credible rational people who have seen and heard ghostly happenings. So I am in the camp of there is something going on, we just do not know for sure what.

I kind of hope there ghosts as that means there is a form of existence after death. The TV programme the Living and The Dead has a very clever take on ghosts, I wont say how because that would spoil it, but if you have not watched it, I would highly recommend it.

[Six30]

Id be surprised that any physicists would rule something out based solely on lack of proof.

just because you can't prove something doesn't mean it's not real or doesn't exist.

yes theres a lack of scientific proof, but there is a huge amount of witnesses who swear to have seen something paranormal.

Look back through history and every single civilisation has documented the concept of ghosts... they have all documented extraterrestrials too.

Can every single civilisation throughout the history of mankind really be wrong??

 

Every civilisation has the one thing in common. A brain.

It tricks you daily. Filling in details for you like colour and interpretations. Our brains are very prone to little malfunctions. I've seen tiny amounts of a drug make the silly sod doing it believe ninjas were jumping between bushes to come and steal from them. They woke up genuinely believing it had happened.

Also ghosts are inconsistent. People have seen dead relatives, monsters, demons, gods, Angels etc. No two are alike and the popular theory on this is because no two brains are perfectly alike. They can malfunction in similar ways but not perfectly identical ways.

Look at it scientifically. Does a ghost have mass? No? Then how is it bound to the earth? The earth despite not feeling it is barrelling through space at 67,000mph. Like neutrinos they'd pass through the earth and carry on.

If they have mass and can be observed by a human they are detectable yet never have been. So the conclusion is they don't exist and it's much more likely a weakness of a brain capable of imagination.

I wonder if belief in them is partly down to a fear of death. Pretty much everyone would like there to be something afterwards and ghosts which is also why pretty much every civilisation has had their own version of religion and afterlife.

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Explain this this then , two people see the same thing at the same time at the same place, thier brains playing the same trick!!

Noooo it's a fooking ghost.

[Fozzie]

Loads of possible reasons. Simplest being one or both of them is lying. Or they wanted a few minutes of fame.

In 2016, people seem willing to snap a pic of a dying sea animal dragged out of the ocean for selfies but not a ghost. That's why I'm dubious to say the least

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[Throttled]

.......

Explain this this then , two people see the same thing at the same time at the same place, thier brains playing the same trick!!

Noooo it's a fooking ghost.

 

Yes. This is one from my blog about my former career and how two police officers saw the same thing

https://rogerthepoliceman.wordpress.com/2016/07/17/ghost-story/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Stu]

by eck some people talk some shite

[Mr Fro]

My own rationalisation is based in the multi-verse theory. The universes are stacked so close together that a similar event in another is projected to the other albeit weakly.

I read the same BBC article a while back...

As a future ghost (because I'm going to haunt the shit out of some people for fun), I do wonder why current ghosts hang about in such miserable and predictable places - abandoned houses etc. Surely it'd be more comfortable and fun to hang around in Starbucks or somewhere.

[Westbeef]

Think this was supposed to be a bit of fun, turned all serious now!

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[Guest]

The thing is.....you can hypothesise all you like.......but I know what I experienced!

I couldn't have been dreaming......I was wide awake doing about 70 in a car. Though I eventually screeched to a complete halt!

I couldn't have been hallucinating......I've never done drugs in my life and I wasn't running a fever!

If I went through a polygraph it would come up that I'm telling the truth. That doesn't prove this phantom plane exists of course.....it would just prove that I'm not lying.

And what I saw with the plane probably lasted about 25 to 30 seconds......so it wasn't something that just flashed in front of me for a split second. I watched it's approach and I saw the propellers spinning quite clearly.

It's very strange you know! Cos millions of people believe there's an invisible man in the sky who watches over us in everything that we do.

But as soon as I say that I saw a phantom plane everybody thinks I'm a nutjob!

[Fozzie]

Mr Fro. Could you link it? I read one that implied we are in fact a projection of something that happened a long time ago or to some effect. But I've not seen anything that says in a multi-verse that they can interact with each other other than black/white holes.

I'd haunt Disney land. The haunted mansion...

No one would suspect it! How long could I go before they realised an extra attraction was there and always doing something different every day. Maybe that's what ghosts do... There's no flash photography allowed in there.

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[Joeman]

There is a theory that all universes share the same space just oscillating at different frequencies. Much like radio waves, most of the time they happily coexist, but sometimes they interference with each other, and you get cross-talk in the signal... that's when we start to see strange stuff that shouldnt be there.

[MR_W]

Look at it scientifically. Does a ghost have mass? No? Then how is it bound to the earth? The earth despite not feeling it is barrelling through space at 67,000mph. Like neutrinos they'd pass through the earth and carry on.

If they have mass and can be observed by a human they are detectable yet never have been. So the conclusion is they don't exist and it's much more likely a weakness of a brain capable of imagination.

 

 

You can't say that a object that you've never measured doesn't have a mass. That's a huge assumption.

And just because something hasn't been detected doesn't prove it doesn't exist.

Currently nearly 30% of the known universe can't be accounted for. It's known as Dark Matter.. it can't be directly observed, but it's existence is widely accepted.

Someone beat me on the dark matter idea.

Though what if there is more than visible matter and dark matter? After all the LHC might have found a new particle we weren't expecting. So could ghosts just be an undiscovered matter?

One of my juniors has experienced things and so has the gf. I'm open minded but I'll admit some things freak me.

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[MR_W]

Also even though this went a bit down the debate route I think it's a rather civil one and relatively sensible.

I am now keeping an eye on my kid. The cat used to stare at something at the other end of the stairs at my parents old place. And I heard baking sheets move when I was only one home like someone had knocked them off a work surface. More than once that happened and it's not a feature of Family Guy episodes...

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[Guest]

my bet is a little less involved.

that we're a poorly evolved species with enough imagination to have survived this long. part of the mechanism for survival being to be afraid of everything... that rustle in the jungle might be a ghost.. or it might be a sabre tooth eyeing you up as lunch. get it wrong in one way and you are creating a mythology. get it wrong in another way and your lunch.

I think we tend to believe nonsense.. mainly because we have evolved that way. we cant help it. and seeing things... this is nothing new. There are people out there who you can talk to who sincerely believe they have been abducted by aliens and experimented on.. usually in a vaguely sexual manner. I don't believe these stories for a moment. people believe all sorts of bull. There are a fair few people who believe there were no planes on 9/11. no planes at all. some of these are sincere.. even if they sound insane.

I dont believe any of it. ex catholic so i take un belief very seriously. and look with wide eyed amazement at people who believe in the supernatural. or other unfalsifiable nonsense. people hallucinate without need of drugs. as an ex catholic i know this just thinking about fatima. a miracle.. or mass hallucination. Im betting hallucination. Most saw nothing.. but have convinced themselves that they did. to the point its as true to them as their own name.

its still nonsense though. But Im outnumbered. currently 1.27 billion catholics believe in the holy ghost as an actual being. you only need to look at youtube to see how born again people react when they are 'filled with the spirit' falling to the floor and having what looks like a fit. its real for them.. even if its an unconscious but still deliberate 'act'. I have no doubt that it is just that.. an act.

ghosts.. no.

there might be a simpler explanation... as Dickens wrote.

“You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!”

― Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol

[Fozzie]

There is a theory that all universes share the same space just oscillating at different frequencies. Much like radio waves, most of the time they happily coexist, but sometimes they interference with each other, and you get cross-talk in the signal... that's when we start to see strange stuff that shouldnt be there.

 

I like that idea.

When I was a kid someone told me the universe was infinite, and I replied that's great as dragons will exist somewhere. They thought it was empty whereas I figured if it physically could be imagined and work then it must exist somewhere in an infinite universe.

So it actually makes sense if that was the case all universes are in one place. Just we can't observe them. I can't remember how many but in so many billion years the expansion of the universe will hit a point where the Big Bang is no longer detectable unless you had prior knowledge. So who knows what we've missed or yet to see.

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[Stu]

'filled with the spirit' falling to the floor and having what looks like a fit.

 

I do that!!!

Although its a different kind of spirit and I'm just usually trying to get up and stand straight again

[rennie]

me too! especially this week!

Lets try and keep things light hearted please people