leener Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 There is nothing more satisfying than doing a job yourself not only that you can do other jobs while in there! I have always found the hardest part is lining up the rocker cover gasket especially if its one that sits in the rocker cover and falls out the moment you get near the engine with it True, that. Okay, I think I'll need to at least give it a bash. I'll need to find the correct gasket for the thing... seeing as I'm ordering it myself, I might as well do the rest.So, a walk through of what I expect to do...- Get the bike apart, tank off, airbox off, no SAI to remove, and get the rocker cover out, removing the bolts in the correct sequence.- Carefully, unbolt the ladder- Get the feelers in there and write down each check on a bit of paper- Work out how bad the clearances are- Have a cry- Make a cuppa- Take up smoking again- Get the engine cranked to TDC- Take out the CCT- Release the holding arms on the chain, and the bracket- Loosen off the cam-chain and hang it up on something so it doesn't fall in- Get the cams out, lay them so you don't get them back in wrong, or work out where the markings are for EX and IN.- Use a magnetic stick (want of better words) to get the buckets out, and lay them out in order of where they were- Get each shim out, one at a time, and measure them- Swear as you drop one down the cam chain chamber- Awkwardly try to fish it out with the magnet stick- Bang your head on the frame- Swear for a bit- Continue measuring shims, and write them all down on the bit of paper- Put the shims back- Put the buckets back- Fiddle with the cams, trying to get the friggin' chain back on, only to eventually work out that the best way is to put the exhaust cam on first... Then the intake cam.- Put the arms back on the cams to hold them in- Put the CCT in- Put the bracket back on in the top of the chain- Shove the rocker back on and leave the bolts in lose, but not to allow crap to get in- Realise that the ladder is still out- Swear for a few minutes and take the rocker off again...Got to go home now, so will continue this later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowBusa Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 You Got NO Problem doing itYou Basically got it down to a T and understand Exactly what you gotta do AND in the right orderjust 2 things#1 use some zip ties to keep chain on sprocket while your timing...it Will jump otherwise .Whats a ladder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowBusa Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 The Rocker cover gasket should be re-usable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Someone, somewhere, sometime made an excel spreadsheet which you put the sizes of your current shims in and the target clearances and measured clearances and it worked out which shims were needed and shuffling your current shims around to minimise the number of new shims required. .......can't remember who it was now who did this...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Someone, somewhere, sometime made an excel spreadsheet which you put the sizes of your current shims in and the target clearances and measured clearances and it worked out which shims were needed and shuffling your current shims around to minimise the number of new shims required. .......can't remember who it was now who did this...... back of haynes manual has it in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 #2 .Whats a ladder? the cam holderer thingy ma bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Its more time consuming than actual workIf your happy taking cams out and re-timing them (after) then you have nothing to worry about and will get on fineAll you need to do is measure the gap between cam lobe and bucket with feeler gauges on all cylinders ....get a pen and paper ....go away and work out which shims you can swap for others to make up the right distancesThen buy the right shims to replace (I bet its less than 4)The actual shims are SERIOUSLY tough and dont wear as easy as people thinkI Always write down shims sizes per bucket number and location Before I start changing them.........If you stuff up...simple go back to where you started Ok up to a point but how do you know what shim sizes are already in there ? You won't be able to start swapping or replacing until you've seen the values etched onto the existing shims and sometimes they can be very hard to see . Also its not the shims that wear, its the valve seats that "pocket" thus reducing the valve clearances. I do get the point though that sometimes an engine can be re shimmed without having to buy very many shims at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowBusa Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Thats for initial measurments,he says he's taking buckets out....so a bit pointless if he isnt going to measure firstI get small bags and label them to know im using same bucket,shim, valve, valve furniture & springs..so I dont get wrong readingsand I use an eye loop to read the shim numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowBusa Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 That brings up another point.............make sure the springs go back in the way they came out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Springs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowBusa Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Doh! I was talking to someone on another forum and got confused to what site I was on......scratch that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leener Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Thanks for the encouragement and words of wisdom. I'll try to tackle it soon, if the weather allows it. I have a new cam chain tensioner spring and rocker gasket, so it's ready to happen.I have my heated grips (home made ones) ready to go on, so can do that at the same time. Hopefully, this cures the issues I had.Issue being loss of power and when cold starting, it struggles to catch the revs and build up to the fast idle for warming up. Often, it takes two or three goes to finally start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leener Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Sorry to hijack the thread... I managed to do it, myself, so far. I have the head off, and got the clearances. But, can't do any more because it's raining... Again! So, as it will be dark in an hour, I'll get the cams off tomorrow. The thing that really worries me is that when I got the plugs out, 3 and 2 are OK... 1 was soaked in oil. The barrel was swimming. Now I'm worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Sorry to hijack the thread... I managed to do it, myself, so far. I have the head off, and got the clearances. But, can't do any more because it's raining... Again! So, as it will be dark in an hour, I'll get the cams off tomorrow. IMG-20171111-WA0001.jpgThe thing that really worries me is that when I got the plugs out, 3 and 2 are OK... 1 was soaked in oil. The barrel was swimming. Now I'm worried. Re swimming .. could just be when the gasket seal on the oil channels was broken taking the head off the oil residue in head entered the cylinder bore ...( but if you took plugs out before removing head then yes you have an issue ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Its more time consuming than actual workIf your happy taking cams out and re-timing them (after) then you have nothing to worry about and will get on fineAll you need to do is measure the gap between cam lobe and bucket with feeler gauges on all cylinders ....get a pen and paper ....go away and work out which shims you can swap for others to make up the right distancesThen buy the right shims to replace (I bet its less than 4)The actual shims are SERIOUSLY tough and dont wear as easy as people thinkI Always write down shims sizes per bucket number and location Before I start changing them.........If you stuff up...simple go back to where you started Its not the shims that wear though ... its the valve seats and valve faces ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leener Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 It looks like my clearances are in check, anyway. So, the root cause of my starting and running issues are looking at cylinder number one. The head gasket is my next suspect. So need to check the pistons and rings, too. I took the plugs out first, before I took off the rocket cover, just to have a look. The barrel was at least one centimetre deep in oil, and the plug was covered, all over. Anyone got any advice for taking the head off? Before I cry myself to sleep... Trust me to own a bike with this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leener Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 And could be valve stem seals... Oh, lordy, lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 For the cylinder to have that much oil ..it would suggest its leaking downwards .. not past piston ...Have you had to top up quite a bit recently ? How long has the engine been stood since last started.? It could be a very knackered valve stem seal or a cylinder gasket failure Warped head/block Look at the valves through the inlet/exhaust ports and compare ..see if 1 is oily/more carbon on the port side than the others . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Can you do a compression test or better still a leakdown test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leener Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Thanks for the replies.It was used daily until last week. I had a mechanic look at it a couple of months ago, and he said there was a lot of oil in cylinder one. He put it down to the fact that the spark plug had no compression ring on it... Yeah... He even called me in to show me, and said that cylinder one had poor compression... How could this be the spark plug? Seeing as one needs the plug out, first. I just needed it to run, and didn't have time to investigate, until now.With the info you guys gave me, I'll pop the exhaust manifolds out and the throttle body, hopefully tomorrow. And, then I'll inspect the valves for oil. Following that, if no signs of oil are present then I'll invest in a compression tester, and work out if the rings need replacing. Might as well replace the pistons and hone it, while I'm in there. This is territory that I have never been to. I have the rum flowing already. All I need is a working bike. On the bright side, at least nobody can steal it, in its current state. I hope the block isn't warped.... New update, hopefully tomorrow. Cheers, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Gimme a bell and I'll talk you through what you need to do. Too much to type it all up on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leener Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Gimme a bell and I'll talk you through what you need to do. Too much to type it all up on here. Shall I send you a message through here?I'll be getting the tool kit out again, shortly, and making another go at it. If I can find the source of the oil leak then I'll be able hopefully work out what needs doing. But, will need an idea of the process. The last thing I want to do is knacker this engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leener Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Update so far :Checked the inlet and outlet ports, and saw some pretty clean valves nested in there. No sign of oil, very little deposit.Cleaned out the throttle body, replaced cam chain tensioner spring + washer, put new rocker gasket on, and seated the rocker cover on, not torqued on...I am waiting on the right sized adaptor to fit the compression tester and need to find new washers to sit on top of the spark plug towers. Those looked very worn, as did the gasket that I removed. I'm hoping that these are the culprit for the oil pooling. I didn't realise that T1261337 didn't include these... I have no idea what the part number I need is.Bike is still in bits and will just have to wait until the compression kit arrives, and I find these damned rubber seals.Update: found and ordered new seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megawatt Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 PMd you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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