Cbf1000 wouldn't start today

[Beans]

The biffer wouldn't start today at home. Just fizzed a bit when pressing the start button, engine never turned over. So I left it with the battery connected to the Optimate that I don't normally use. I've come home and tried it and it starts. Hmm I'm thinking, I don't want a repeat of this if I'm miles from home.

The bike is used daily year round so I've started it before now on colder days though it was a bit nippy first thing today. At weekend I put over 100 miles on it. Monday to Wednesday this week it's done the 4 mile each way commute to work. It's a 2007 bike but I don't know if the battery is original or a replacement, I could have a look later.

Is this non-starting today significant or should I just see how it goes? Should I be ordering a new battery?

Thanks in advance

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I'd see how the battery goes after being charged. Be worth measuring the voltage first thing in the morning to see if it's holding steady. Also measure the voltage when you turn the ignition on, if the battery is weak you may see the voltage collapse as soon as any load is applied.

Am I imagining it or do they sometimes suffer weak charging systems? I seem to remember reading some of them had problems. In which case check the output going into the battery as well.

[fastbob]

Could be the battery. They do tend to fail quite suddenly. I was belting down the A9 for an hour, pulled in for a coffee , went to start the bike , totally dead battery. Up till then there hadn't been the slightest hint that anything was wrong .

[fastbob]

I'd see how the battery goes after being charged. Be worth measuring the voltage first thing in the morning to see if it's holding steady. Also measure the voltage when you turn the ignition on, if the battery is weak you may see the voltage collapse as soon as any load is applied.

Am I imagining it or do they sometimes suffer weak charging systems? I seem to remember reading some of them had problems. In which case check the output going into the battery as well.

 

Don't all Hondas have dodgy Rec Regs sooner or later ?

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I'd see how the battery goes after being charged. Be worth measuring the voltage first thing in the morning to see if it's holding steady. Also measure the voltage when you turn the ignition on, if the battery is weak you may see the voltage collapse as soon as any load is applied.

Am I imagining it or do they sometimes suffer weak charging systems? I seem to remember reading some of them had problems. In which case check the output going into the battery as well.

 

Don't all Hondas have dodgy Rec Regs sooner or later ?

 

None of mine have....so far! But I'm sure I read there was a generation of CBF1000 which were prone to charging problems.

[fastbob]

I'd see how the battery goes after being charged. Be worth measuring the voltage first thing in the morning to see if it's holding steady. Also measure the voltage when you turn the ignition on, if the battery is weak you may see the voltage collapse as soon as any load is applied.

Am I imagining it or do they sometimes suffer weak charging systems? I seem to remember reading some of them had problems. In which case check the output going into the battery as well.

 

Don't all Hondas have dodgy Rec Regs sooner or later ?

 

None of mine have....so far! But I'm sure I read there was a generation of CBF1000 which were prone to charging problems.

 

It was a slightly tongue in cheek remark but I definitely remember selling loads more Electrex pattern RR's for Hondas than for any other make . Mostly for CBR's as I recall.

[Beans]

Thanks for the advice. I've left it plugged in because I could definitely do with it starting tomorrow a.m. and I will investigate further over the weekend

[fastbob]

Thanks for the advice. I've left it plugged in because I could definitely do with it starting tomorrow a.m. and I will investigate further over the weekend

 

Doesn't an Optimate tell you when a battery is knackered ?

[Beans]

Thanks for the advice. I've left it plugged in because I could definitely do with it starting tomorrow a.m. and I will investigate further over the weekend

 

Doesn't an Optimate tell you when a battery is knackered ?

Its an Oxford, I was using the name Optimate in a general sense. Its this one http://www.oxfordproducts.com/motorcycle/brands/oxford/battery_care_and_power_accessories/oximiser_900_essential_battery_management_system nothing on the display to suggest its connected to a knackered battery.

Course the flaw in my plan is when I leave work at 4.30pm tomorrow, hopefully the bloody thing starts then and not just in the morning

[fastbob]

Thanks for the advice. I've left it plugged in because I could definitely do with it starting tomorrow a.m. and I will investigate further over the weekend

 

Doesn't an Optimate tell you when a battery is knackered ?

Its an Oxford, I was using the name Optimate in a general sense. Its this one http://www.oxfordproducts.com/motorcycle/brands/oxford/battery_care_and_power_accessories/oximiser_900_essential_battery_management_system nothing on the display to suggest its connected to a knackered battery.

Course the flaw in my plan is when I leave work at 4.30pm tomorrow, hopefully the bloody thing starts then and not just in the morning

 

Can you park facing down hill ?

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Thanks for the advice. I've left it plugged in because I could definitely do with it starting tomorrow a.m. and I will investigate further over the weekend

 

Doesn't an Optimate tell you when a battery is knackered ?

 

Not always. I had one which like yours just died out of the blue. It was fine all morning then half way through the afternoon it was just totally dead. It had been on my CTEK with no sign of an issue.

If the battery has dud cells so it can't attain the right voltage it throws a warning but batteries do weird things sometimes with no warning at all.

Beans...hope you get home ok . Let us know how it goes.

[ThePhatomfart]

Saw this little dubri, cheap as well

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-Battery-Charge-Voltmeter-Volt-Meter-alternator-warning-lamp-indicator-/201338524013

[Beans]

Well it started today with some reluctance. Rode it to work. But the bast*rd thing has refused to start tonight so will be spending the weekend in the company car park. Tonight was the same thing as Thursday morning, nowhere near starting, just squelching a bit.

Should have left it at home today

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Does sound like the battery then. Either that or there's a current flowing when it shouldn't be. Easy enough to check but most likely the battery if it's not holding charge.

[Beans]

Does sound like the battery then. Either that or there's a current flowing when it shouldn't be. Easy enough to check but most likely the battery if it's not holding charge.

Check by..? Measuring the voltage at the battery terminals on Monday with my multimeter?

.. Be worth measuring the voltage first thing in the morning to see if it's holding steady. Also measure the voltage when you turn the ignition on, if the battery is weak you may see the voltage collapse as soon as any load is applied

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Does sound like the battery then. Either that or there's a current flowing when it shouldn't be. Easy enough to check but most likely the battery if it's not holding charge.

Check by..? Measuring the voltage at the battery terminals on Monday with my multimeter?

 

Undo the positive terminal connector and put a multimeter between the end of the lead and the battery terminal. Set the reading to milliamps. Any current flowing should be negligible, anything over a few milliamps and there's a short somewhere.

Unlikely to be the case. Most of the time it's the battery, but I've replaced a battery before and then discovered there was a reason all the magical sparky stuff was leaking out of it.

[billy sugger]

Does sound like the battery then. Either that or there's a current flowing when it shouldn't be. Easy enough to check but most likely the battery if it's not holding charge.

Check by..? Measuring the voltage at the battery terminals on Monday with my multimeter?

 

Undo the positive terminal connector and put a multimeter between the end of the lead and the battery terminal. Set the reading to milliamps. Any current flowing should be negligible, anything over a few milliamps and there's a short somewhere.

Unlikely to be the case. Most of the time it's the battery, but I've replaced a battery before and then discovered there was a reason all the magical sparky stuff was leaking out of it.

checking current leakage with a multimeter is via the negative lead on the battery. connect the negative test probe to the battery negative terminal, and the positive test probe to the disconnected negative lead. you should not have more than about 2 milliamps current loss, if you do then you more than likely have a short somewhere and if that's the case it means disconnecting things one at a time and then rechecking the reading until the culprit is found-- there will be a lower reading on the meter

[Six30]

Battery or rectifier , pal of mine had this , thought it was battery , bought a new one was fine for a while until battery drained again , that was a Cbf 1000 , it was rectifier , common fault I think .

[fastbob]

Would I be correct in thinking that one cause of rectifier/regulator failure is running with a knackered battery ? So what we might have here is a it of a cause and effect loop . Is it also likely that a knackered rec/reg and a knackered battery could have a negative , and very expensive , effect on the CDI unit ? I hope that all that's needed here is a new battery but , as previously mentioned , it's definitely worth checking the rec/reg output as soon as it's up and running again. Good luck.

[billy sugger]

whatever the cause, unfortunately the only way to get accurate readings is via a fully charged decent battery and the bike run up to normal operating temperature, so if you can borrow a battery in the meantime for the checks that would help. besides a battery repeatedly going flat the other indicators of a faulty reg/rec or charging system is constantly blowing head light bulbs or the lights flickering on tick-over then brightening as you open the throttle. a battery getting very warm is indicative of a faulty regulator

[Beans]

So new battery and it starts.Happy days. Existing battery measured 12v so too low to turn the starter motor I guess but checking on the internet suggests this isn't too low Maybe it was collapsing under load, I dunno I forgot to test this, I was so keen to get my new battery in. So as I say happy to be mobile Apart from this:

Check by..? Measuring the voltage at the battery terminals on Monday with my multimeter?

 

Undo the positive terminal connector and put a multimeter between the end of the lead and the battery terminal. Set the reading to milliamps. Any current flowing should be negligible, anything over a few milliamps and there's a short somewhere.

Unlikely to be the case. Most of the time it's the battery, but I've replaced a battery before and then discovered there was a reason all the magical sparky stuff was leaking out of it.

checking current leakage with a multimeter is via the negative lead on the battery. connect the negative test probe to the battery negative terminal, and the positive test probe to the disconnected negative lead. you should not have more than about 2 milliamps current loss, if you do then you more than likely have a short somewhere and if that's the case it means disconnecting things one at a time and then rechecking the reading until the culprit is found-- there will be a lower reading on the meter

unfortunately at either 200 or 2000μ on the A section of the attached multimeter performing this leakage test resulted in 172 being displayed

Multimeter set on 200 or 2000ฯ

[billy sugger]

I'm sure, though someone may come along and correct me, that is on capacitance, not amperage reading. you need to be set on mA

[Beans]

So thanks for the assistance. On mA doing the leakage test it reads 0.7.

But the new battery now measures just 11.7v whereas it was 12.7v when I fitted it at midday then I had a ride out for an hour or so, I was expecting it to be > 12.7v now?

[Stu]

have you checked the voltage at the terminals with the bike running?

[billy sugger]

Unfortunately this sounds like your reg/rec is at fault. do you have a manual, (workshop or Haynes)? As Stu has said check the voltage at the battery terminals, taking one reading while revving engine to 5000rpm, then take another reading with headlight on and applying rear brake to activate the rear brake light and this should take the alternator output up to it's highest output, which is normally about 14.5-14.8v ( not sure of output for your bike, but most of my 12v system bikes range between 14 -15.5v). If it is your reg/rec I would not keep using the bike because continually flattening the new battery will soon destroy it