skyrider Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Just now, MarkW said: What type of people? Just now, MarkW said: What type of people? the ones who aren't bothered if they go to the gallows or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTreme Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 If you guys actually watched the George Carlin clip I posted......you'd see him make the point that the death penalty is only a deterrent to those who are frightened to die! Just watch this little snippet and think about it....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six30 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Bender said: Your not getting it though are you, in my case or rather his, there is no mistake, there is no grey area he has since put 5 prison officers in hospital, he is beyond help, there is no hidden evidence there is no foul play, there is no one else involved, he admitted both murders, why should people continue to suffer because if him, he will kill again. i get it Bender , there are loads like him in prison who should be dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six30 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 51 minutes ago, XTreme said: If you guys actually watched the George Carlin clip I posted......you'd see him make the point that the death penalty is only a deterrent to those who are frightened to die! Just watch this little snippet and think about it....... so we can kill bankers then . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTreme Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Six30 said: so we can kill bankers then . I can't condone killing anybody......but if I was forced into it then Bankers and Politicians would be right up there on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkW Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: You’re saying in this particular case theres no mistake and he would deserve it but your not acknowledging the change in the law to allow this ‘deserving’ persons murder would then lead to innocent people being hanged. Sometimes people’s views are emotionally compromised by what they’ve seen or been involved in. You have to put that to one side and look a step further at what the consequences of you having your way on one case would have on everything that came after. That would without doubt be innocent people being hanged. So my question remains. Do you think innocent people being hanged is acceptable collateral? This is the bit the pro-death penalty mob always go quiet on: the fact that capital punishment only comes at the end of a judicial process that is every bit as susceptible to errors and miscarriages as any other, and that the price you pay for a bit of caveman retribution is that sooner or later you inevitabaly end up punishing the innocent. It's the exact inverse of Blackstone's Formulation: as long as no guilty man escapes the noose then to hell with the occasional innocent victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, MarkW said: This is the bit the pro-death penalty mob always go quiet on: the fact that capital punishment only comes at the end of a judicial process that is every bit as susceptible to errors and miscarriages as any other, and that the price you pay for a bit of caveman retribution is that sooner or later you inevitabaly end up punishing the innocent. It's the exact inverse of Blackstone's Formulation: as long as no guilty man escapes the noose then to hell with the occasional innocent victim. I'm not quiet on it, I'm happy to allow it and for the judiciary to set the bar for it as high as you like. Im not bothered about it being a deterrent, Anders Behring Breivik, admittedly not in our jurisdiction, murder of Lee rugby, there are cases beyond doubt where folk don't deserve oxygen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkW Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bender said: I'm not quiet on it, I'm happy to allow it and for the judiciary to set the bar for it as high as you like. Im not bothered about it being a deterrent, Anders Behring Breivik, admittedly not in our jurisdiction, murder of Lee rugby, there are cases beyond doubt where folk don't deserve oxygen. I know what you're saying, but the state-sanctioned killing of Lee Rigby's murderers raises a different danger altogether. On top of which, rotting in obscurity is far more of a punishment for a pair who wanted martyrdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, MarkW said: I know what you're saying, but the state-sanctioned killing of Lee Rigby's murderers raises a different danger altogether. On top of which, rotting in obscurity is far more of a punishment for a pair who wanted martyrdom. I'm happy for them to live at the bottom of a muddy hole for the remainder of their lives, it has to be open to the elements and be dug in Iceland, be 200ft deep with no toilet, there I've compromised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I find it difficult to comprehend how no matter how small you break the components down into, no matter how simple you make the steps to follow people who are pro death penalty will just cover their eyes and refuse to answer the questions in order maintain a stance they can’t defend. I suppose they’re hard wired to their emotions and to hell with the consequences. If we have the death penalty will there be mistakes that mean innocent people will be murdered? Do you think that is worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Bender said: I'm happy for them to live at the bottom of a muddy hole for the remainder of their lives, it has to be open to the elements and be dug in Iceland, be 200ft deep with no toilet, there I've compromised Ok muddy hole 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerontious Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: If we have the death penalty will there be mistakes that mean innocent people will be murdered? Do you think that is worth it? Timothy Evans. Hung 1950 He had the vocabulary of a 14yr old and the mental age of a 10yr old In January 2003, the Home Office awarded Timothy Evans's half-sister, Mary Westlake, and his sister, Eileen Ashby, ex gratia payments as compensation for the miscarriage of justice in Evans's trial. The independent assessor for the Home Office, Lord Brennan QC, accepted that "the conviction and execution of Timothy Evans for the murder of his child was wrongful and a miscarriage of justice" and that "there is no evidence to implicate Timothy Evans in the murder of his wife. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkW Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Gerontious said: He had the vocabulary of a 14yr old and the mental age of a 10yr old Sounds like most of the people on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Slight side note @Bender your jury service crim hasn’t been effectively managed if he’s injured 5 guards. Broadmoor ‘Hospital’ is still quite recognisable as the ‘Criminal Lunatic Asylum’ it started as. They used to find it amusing to send student nurses there from Brookwood (which was the lower level psychiatric hospital) for a bit of an eye opener, I suppose to knock off some of the syrupy sweetness and idealism but officially it was so you could see the way people were graded and get an overview of all psychiatric treatment. It is a truly frightening place. The incurably unpredictably violent are medicated. Medicated to a level they aren’t going to hurt anyone. Which you can do against someone’s will if necessary once sectioned. Your man just needs the stronger meds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, Gerontious said: Timothy Evans. Hung 1950 He had the vocabulary of a 14yr old and the mental age of a 10yr old In January 2003, the Home Office awarded Timothy Evans's half-sister, Mary Westlake, and his sister, Eileen Ashby, ex gratia payments as compensation for the miscarriage of justice in Evans's trial. The independent assessor for the Home Office, Lord Brennan QC, accepted that "the conviction and execution of Timothy Evans for the murder of his child was wrongful and a miscarriage of justice" and that "there is no evidence to implicate Timothy Evans in the murder of his wife. You can fetch out as many miscarriages of justice you like carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bender said: You can fetch out as many miscarriages of justice you like carry on Because youve already covered your eyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: Slight side note @Bender your jury service crim hasn’t been effectively managed if he’s injured 5 guards. Broadmoor ‘Hospital’ is still quite recognisable as the ‘Criminal Lunatic Asylum’ it started as. They used to find it amusing to send student nurses there from Brookwood (which was the lower level psychiatric hospital) for a bit of an eye opener, I suppose to knock off some of the syrupy sweetness and idealism but officially it was so you could see the way people were graded and get an overview of all psychiatric treatment. It is a truly frightening place. The incurably unpredictably violent are medicated. Medicated to a level they aren’t going to hurt anyone. Which you can do against someone’s will if necessary once sectioned. Your man just needs the stronger meds. He is very sane, and very big, they say 6ft he's way bigger than that, he dwarfed security, he stabbed his victim so ferocious the knife went through her and 3/4 floor boards, by through I mean shattering her rib cage entering and exiting her and the floor,they couldn’t even explain the amount of blood on the ceiling and walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerontious Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Bender said: You can fetch out as many miscarriages of justice you like carry on one is one too many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 33 minutes ago, Gerontious said: Timothy Evans. Hung 1950 He had the vocabulary of a 14yr old and the mental age of a 10yr old In January 2003, the Home Office awarded Timothy Evans's half-sister, Mary Westlake, and his sister, Eileen Ashby, ex gratia payments as compensation for the miscarriage of justice in Evans's trial. The independent assessor for the Home Office, Lord Brennan QC, accepted that "the conviction and execution of Timothy Evans for the murder of his child was wrongful and a miscarriage of justice" and that "there is no evidence to implicate Timothy Evans in the murder of his wife. Blimey I knew they’d said he hadn’t done it. I didn’t know his neighbour was a serial killer who later admitted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Bender said: He is very sane, and very big, they say 6ft he's way bigger than that, he dwarfed security, he stabbed his victim so ferocious the knife went through her and 3/4 floor boards, by through I mean shattering her rib cage entering and exiting her and the floor,they couldn’t even explain the amount of blood on the ceiling and walls. Does that sound sane to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Gerontious said: one is one too many. That's your view and your welcome to it, witness a stabbing as a kid, live where I did then get back to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: Does that sound sane to you? Yup perfectly, don't confuse insanity with someone who has a temper and huge amount of strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 This is a good un- George Kelly was executed in March 1950 for the 1949 murder of the manager of the Cameo Cinema in Liverpool, UK and his assistant during a robbery that went wrong. This case became known as the Cameo Murder. Kelly's conviction was overturned in 2003. Another man, Donald Johnson, had confessed to the crime but the police bungled Johnson's case and had not divulged his confession at Kelly's trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: This is a good un- George Kelly was executed in March 1950 for the 1949 murder of the manager of the Cameo Cinema in Liverpool, UK and his assistant during a robbery that went wrong. This case became known as the Cameo Murder. Kelly's conviction was overturned in 2003. Another man, Donald Johnson, had confessed to the crime but the police bungled Johnson's case and had not divulged his confession at Kelly's trial. Bla bla bla, eyes wide open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, Bender said: That's your view and your welcome to it, witness a stabbing as a kid, live where I did then get back to me. Your emotions about your experiences are not the best basis for decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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