Kawasaki Versys 650 Gearbox Woes

[V650]

Hi All 

I have a kawasaki versys and the Output shaft was damaged due to the front sprocket nut being too loose 

 

Ok So I decided to make a start on replacing the Transmission / Gearbox as the output shaft were worn to a point where I felt that I would put it in gear and the sprocket would just strip off what was left of the metal
Photo attached  is of the offending article

 

Sourced a replacement box on ebay

 

Have hit a bit of a dead end
Gearbox is back in and the chain is on
adjusted the clutch cable
put in some fresh oil
Bike is on the paddock stand
Turned the key & neutral light comes on wheel rotates freely
Start it up and it did not burst in to flames

Engine running and I can select first gear bit of a clunk but it goes in
Try second gear and wahoo second works also
Try 3rd and its like its back in neutral no drive & the wheel stops rotating
Try 4th and it wont go in just makes a bit of a grating noise so I did not want to do any damage so I stopped

 

This morning I tried it again same thing so I thought maybe the shift rod needed a little adjustment and I spent quite a while adjusting it back and forward with no success
No Matter what I did it just will not go in to any gear after 2
Thinking the replacement box was duff I took it back out
When it was out I noticed that the Locating dowels were still in the old box I had forgotten to swap them over and although I was skeptical that the dowels would make any difference I put the box back in with the dowels

Needless to say it made no difference
So I took the box out again getting quicker at it now

I swapped over the good output shaft in to the old box and reinstalled and the blasted thing is the same with the old box wont go past 3rd gear
The old box was working ok other than the shaft damage so I'm thinking it must be me doing something wrong on installation as both boxes are exhibiting the exact same symptoms

Any gearbox guru's out there can point me in the right direction ?
Or any input at all is welcome at this point
I did not dismantle the selector I just removed and reinstalled it while replacing the gearbox
Cheers 

J

[iangaryprice]

Since you have tried reinstalling the original (worn) output shaft and stil go tthe same problem. It would appear to be an assembly problem.

Do you have a workshop manual for the bikre?

There may be a specific assembly process to get the gears aligned with the selector drum.

 

 

[V650]

1 hour ago, iangaryprice said:

Since you have tried reinstalling the original (worn) output shaft and stil go tthe same problem. It would appear to be an assembly problem.

Do you have a workshop manual for the bikre?

There may be a specific assembly process to get the gears aligned with the selector drum.

 

 

Hi Ian 

Thanks for the reply 

Yeah have the service manual and it seems straight forward this is a cassette type gearbox 

Manual says to put it in neutral position 

Slot the gearbox back in and insert the selector and cover check the drive and output shafts rotate freely in neutral  

Kawasaki use what they call Positive Neutral finder 

"The transmission is equipped with a positive neutral finder. When the motorcycle is standing still, the transmission cannot be shifted past neutral from 1st gear. To use the positive neutral finder, shift down to 1st gear, then lift up on the shift pedal while standing still. The transmission will shift only into neutral "

I am guessing this is working as I am able to shift from 1st to 2nd to third but after that the Lever comes up as usual but nothing happens it does not move in to fourth

This is being tested with the bike on the paddock stand

Last week with the old gearbox I was able to clean the chain and cycle through all gears to sling the excess oil off the chain before cleaning the rear tyre

photo is of the Selector and Neutral switch

 

[fullscreenaging]

Could it be that the rear wheel needs to be under load?

 

I would put it all back together and take it for a gentle spin round the block. See if you can get through the gears under normal conditions. 

Edited May 14, 2022 by fullscreenaging

[V650]

7 hours ago, fullscreenaging said:

Could it be that the rear wheel needs to be under load?

 

I would put it all back together and take it for a gentle spin round the block. See if you can get through the gears under normal conditions. 

Thanks for your reply

That is a great Idea and certainly worth a shot as I have just been testing with it on the paddock stand 

This afternoon I will put the chain back on and take it for a gentle run through the estate and see if anything jumps in to place 

Thanks for the suggestion 

J

 

[V650]

Been out tinkering with the bike

Took it off the paddock stand to try bring it for a run 

I was checking the adjustment of the clutch by putting it in to first gear pulling in the clutch in and pushing the bike to see if the clutch was releasing and to my surprise it did not 

The clutch lever and the clutch actuating arm on the clutch cover seem to be operating normally and I had oiled the cable and the cable is about a year old and moves freely and seems to be in good condition 

I can feel resistance against the spring but it was like it was not doing anything the drive still seemed to be engaged

So I started to adjust the clutch more to try get it to the point where the drive to the wheel was disengaged 

several turns later the back wheel started to turn while pushing in gear but there was no drive to the wheel when in gear & the clutch was released with the engine running

In order to get drive to the wheel I had to slacken off the adjustment but then pulling the clutch in while in gear did not appear to to release the drive to the wheel 

 

Sorry about the long posts but this is doing my head in 

 

Could this be why it wont go in to gear above third and not a gearbox problem at all?

Or is that wishful thinking 

J

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by V650

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Hard to say from a description but bear in mind that motorcycle clutches do 'drag' a bit. So a bike on a stand the back wheel will spin even when the clutch lever is pulled in fully. Just checking you aren't expecting it to have no drag when disengaged.  On some bikes the drag can be very significant such that you can't turn the back wheel by hand with the clutch pulled in. 

 

My experience is that gear selection can be hit and miss when on a stand. But you need to get the clutch set right before assuming there is problem with the gearbox. 

[V650]

19 hours ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

Hard to say from a description but bear in mind that motorcycle clutches do 'drag' a bit. So a bike on a stand the back wheel will spin even when the clutch lever is pulled in fully. Just checking you aren't expecting it to have no drag when disengaged.  On some bikes the drag can be very significant such that you can't turn the back wheel by hand with the clutch pulled in. 

 

My experience is that gear selection can be hit and miss when on a stand. But you need to get the clutch set right before assuming there is problem with the gearbox. 

Thanks for the reply

Trying to set the clutch was being done with the bike on the ground by putting it in gear pulling in the clutch and trying to roll the bike forward and it would not move 

I tried adjusting via the adjuster at the clutch lever on the handlebars and also the adjuster near the clutch cover and by the time it got to a point where I could roll the bike 

it was too much and had disengaged the drive to the wheel even with the clutch lever let off  

 

I have taken the clutch off again to have another look 

Cheers

J

 

[fullscreenaging]

Sounds like you’re getting there. 

[V650]

On 16/05/2022 at 12:33, fullscreenaging said:

Sounds like you’re getting there. 

I wish

I removed the clutch and basket again 

The gearbox is still not engaging after 3rd 

The selector drum seems to stop halfway round and the pin that the selector engages does not make it down low enough for the lever to push 

Photo 1 is the selector and you can see that the pin has not rotated enough for the arm to catch

Photo 2 is the Cam on the other end of the shift drum and the roller has not quite made it in to gear 

I drew on it with a marker 1 for 1st gear N for Neutral 2 for second gear  the Roller should be in the dip 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by V650

[fullscreenaging]

Try the Versys 650 Forum. 
https://www.versys.co.uk/

 

I’m a member of the V1K forum and there are a lot of knowledgeable members on there. 
Your issue is over my head. 

 

[billy sugger]

I reckon there is a slight difference in the two output shafts so gear teeth are not compatible so it doesn't turn the selector enough to engage the gear. Considering you had the same problem trying the new shaft with the original selector box points to the new shaft not being right

[V650]

2 hours ago, billy sugger said:

I reckon there is a slight difference in the two output shafts so gear teeth are not compatible so it doesn't turn the selector enough to engage the gear. Considering you had the same problem trying the new shaft with the original selector box points to the new shaft not being right

Yep could well be 

I am thinking of putting the old gearbox with its original shaft back in to see if it will cycle through he gears  

Wet and miserable here today so did not get a chance to do anything 

will see what tomorrow brings 

Thanks to both of you for your replies

J

[V650]

The issue was / is definitely the replacement box as with the clutch and basket removed the drum would not rotate past 3rd gear

I removed the box again ( getting to be an expert at it now ) and removed the output shaft and put the old damaged one back and reinstalled the box and other than the original damaged splines it is working Ok cycles through the gears by spinning the drive shaft by hand while turning the drum

I have buttoned it back up & refilled the oil

Started it up and runs and goes through the gears on the paddock stand

If the weather co operates I might get it out for a little run later

That's a few days I will never get back and still have the original issue but at least i'm back on the road for the moment so to speak

 

Thanks for the Help guys

J

[fullscreenaging]

Can you not send the box back at all?

After all it’s not fit for purpose. 

 

 

[V650]

1 hour ago, fullscreenaging said:

Can you not send the box back at all?

After all it’s not fit for purpose. 

 

 

Got it on ebay from Netherlands a few weeks back so might be worth looking in to alright 

Though I would imagine the cost of sending it back would be extortionate 

As you can imagine it's not just the cost of the box it was the wasted time taking it in and out multiple times & second guessing if I had done it right  

[fullscreenaging]

I’ve just done a quick quote with DPD

 

I don’t know how much you paid for it but the top quote is pretty good

 

I tried to over estimate the size and weight;

20kg

size 30cmx30cmx30

 

[V650]

Thanks for checking that out for me

The Box cost me €100

Just had a look on DPD Ireland site and it quotes €37 to ship it back 

J 

[fullscreenaging]

At least you can recoup something back and not have a paperweight stuck somewhere. 
 

[V650]

Glutton for punishment 

My brain is telling me if i had more time I could remove all gears from that shaft and put the ones from my old box on to the better shaft 

But only a sadist would think like that 

Maybe a winter project 

Or just sell the bike and offer the shaft along with it to sweeten the deal 

[V650]

Could not stand driving round waiting for the sprocket to strip the teeth off the shaft 

 

So I got another gearbox and put it in on Thursday Cost €280 from Italy and worked a treat no issues 

I was able to cycle through the gears by spinning the input  shaft and turning the gear selector drum  

 

[V650]

Cheers guys 

Got out for a run on thursday all seems to be going well

I am off on hols up the west coast of Ireland ( Doonbeg Co Clare ) in the car with the wife and kids  for a week away & it is blowing a gale here 

But the Views are fab from Loop head Lighthouse

 

The wild atlantic way

J

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by V650

[MikeHorton]

1 minute ago, V650 said:

Cheers guys 

Got out for a run on thursday all seems to be going well

I am off on hols up the west coast of Ireland ( Doonbeg Co Clare ) in the car with the wife and kids  for a week away & it is blowing a gale here 

But the Views are fab 

The wild atlantic way

J

 

Make sure you sample a seafood chowder at one of the many local pubs it's the best! 

[V650]

 Will do

Although i have been stuffing my face since we got here Friday 

Im on  seafood diet 

The more I see the more I eat  

J

 

[MikeHorton]

Great food and amazing inviting people. We did the rings of kerry and skelligs in October stunning