Why did 2013 happen?

[Pbassred]

Why did the big test/licence change of 2013 happen?  Who actually decided what that change should be and why?  Was it the DOT on a whim, or was there a committee on board like ROSPA and National Motorcyclist Council? The rules in most countries in the EU are similar but not the same, so there must have been choices.  Its difficult to think that this was thought through.  It didn't create more riders and it certainly didn't improve safety.

 

I sure there are opinions and suppositions about it, but does anyone know the actual story?

Were there minutes?

[Gerontious]

There were always choices within the euro zone framework. This country always had a knack of making bad choices which could then be blamed on the Brussels bureaucrats. My own thought is that we should have been more aligned and, for example L plates abolished. So riding post CBT on L plates stopped. It’s only a thing in the UK and Ireland (I believe) and nowhere else. And training should include motorways and after dark. Which is also normal in much of Europe. As for 2013. Start by asking yourself  - who was in charge? The minister of state at DOT was a former Banker! A former vice president of Citibank. Obviously highly experienced in transport policy.

 

everything to do with transport is all about money. Extracting the maximum possible amount from the public. And every policy enacted has that at its heart. 
 

it’s the overriding concern above all else.

 

and the obverse of that kind of thinking. Spending must be as low as possible - costs to the treasury at the barest minimum they can get away with… and who cares about the long term consequences. There’s a seat in the House of Lords waiting.

Edited October 25, 2024 by Gerontious

[Bender]

The changes were to align close to the EU system, don't expect our gov to make any sensible changes when they have options.

[bonio]

Costs of building all those mod 1 testing centres must have been colossal. All those acres of beautiful tarmac. 

[Gerontious]

39 minutes ago, bonio said:

Costs of building all those mod 1 testing centres must have been colossal. All those acres of beautiful tarmac. 

obviously it was ensured that there was no link of any kind, even the most tenuous, betwen the decision makers and the contractors. That sort of thing never happens here.

[AstronautNinja]

28 minutes ago, Gerontious said:

obviously it was ensured that there was no link of any kind, even the most tenuous, betwen the decision makers and the contractors. That sort of thing never happens here.

Definately some brown envelopes involved in 3m worth of tarmac, dogs and cash in envelopes 

[RideWithStyles]

Euro (German major rule is what I’d say had most weight) did their skullduggery and bs then the uk was weak as shite followed suit rather than say fook u or at least say well….its not bad but how about this????

Edited October 25, 2024 by RideWithStyles

[Stu]

It's for safety init

[bonio]

16 hours ago, RideWithStyles said:

Euro (German major rule is what I’d say had most weight) did their skullduggery and bs then the uk was weak as shite followed suit rather than say fook u or at least say well….its not bad but how about this????

But no other European country has mod 1 centres. Nor do they have a separate mod 1 on private tarmac. They must all do their swerve avoidance, slalom and figure of eight testing on the public roads. 

[bud]

24 minutes ago, bonio said:

But no other European country has mod 1 centres. Nor do they have a separate mod 1 on private tarmac. They must all do their swerve avoidance, slalom and figure of eight testing on the public roads. 

Yes that's right. Because there speed limit is over thirty miles an hour. That's why we can't do our testing on the road like we used to.

One mile an hour over! I remember reading about it at the time. Bloody ridicules.

[bonio]

What I've never understood is how they get riders doing the figure of eight. I mean, that can't be safe on any road, can it?

[Simon Davey]

1 hour ago, bonio said:

What I've never understood is how they get riders doing the figure of eight. I mean, that can't be safe on any road, can it?

 

Not safe at all, but great fun!

[S-Westerly]

I believe they do them in car parks according to my Croatian colleague.

[Gerontious]

21 hours ago, RideWithStyles said:

Euro (German major rule is what I’d say had most weight) did their skullduggery and bs then the uk was weak as shite followed suit rather than say fook u or at least say well….its not bad but how about this????

The propaganda worked!!

 

contempt for the conmen - compassion for the conned.

 

Germany had absolutely no effect on our governments decision making. None. Our rules are quite different to those in Germany. We are unique in Europe. And messed up badly. It was a very clever move to shift the blame.  Shifting the blame to those damn foreigners is something we are exceptionally good at.

[Bender]

1 hour ago, Gerontious said:

The propaganda worked!!

 

contempt for the conmen - compassion for the conned.

 

Germany had absolutely no effect on our governments decision making. None. Our rules are quite different to those in Germany. We are unique in Europe. And messed up badly. It was a very clever move to shift the blame.  Shifting the blame to those damn foreigners is something we are exceptionally good at.

Really

 

The Germans have an A An A2 and the 125 where you don't need to have a driving license you can just need to do a rider/driving ed course, looks suspiciously similar to me.

 

Now obviously your completely correct and seeing as I've diverted your time from euro car feed daily I'm completely wrong I will poke cocktail sticks iny eyes and read nothing but gs weekly for a month.

 

[S-Westerly]

Well it's not all bad. According to my Croatian to start from scratch and end up with a full A equivalent will cost about €3000 in Croatia which seems bloody expensive to me. Like us you go through grades and most riders stick at 50cc because that costs nothing. Of course the predictable consequence is a drop in the number of legal riders and a rise in those who aren't. 

Edited October 27, 2024 by S-Westerly

[Pbassred]

There was a move in late 2023 from the Motor Cycle Industry Association to make it more progressive. Upgrades courses instead of serial testing and a single test.  Of course, there has been an election since then so I bet the current Ministry of Transport hasn't heard of it or wouldn't do it on principle. It wouldn't have helped that they were pushing more motorbike use on environmental grounds!

[Stu]

On 26/10/2024 at 21:39, Bender said:

Really

 

The Germans have an A An A2 and the 125 where you don't need to have a driving license you can just need to do a rider/driving ed course, looks suspiciously similar to me.

 

Now obviously your completely correct and seeing as I've diverted your time from euro car feed daily I'm completely wrong I will poke cocktail sticks iny eyes and read nothing but gs weekly for a month.

 

 

Guess you're on the ignore list too

[Bender]

54 minutes ago, Stu said:

 

Guess you're on the ignore list too

No I've spoken to a couple of Germans they were very amicable, they didn't even fetch up Brexit or motorbike licence requirements.

[V650]

Here in Ireland the steps are as follows

Theory test ( computer based ) €45 

Eye test ( any optician ) about €20

Lerner permit ( 2 years ) €35

IBT ( similar to UK CBT ) between €500 -€600 depending on who you go with for your training 

this is done on the road with an instructor something around 16 hrs in total usually done over 2 days ( no purpose built centers here ) usually nearest car park 

When you pass the IBT and are signed off you can ride unaccompanied for up to 2 years 

If you do not sit and pass a driving test in the 2 years you need to do the IBT again ( and pay again )

Even if you have a cat B car licence you still need to wear a L vest / tabbard ( you cannot stick a L plate on the bike ) while on the Bike

When you pass your test you can add a category to your car licence for €35  for a bike ( this renew's the whole licence for 10 years )

If you don't have a car licence it is €55 for a 10 year licence

 

So the on the road cost of getting a licence here should be about €755 ( about £630 )

 

For the actual test you need to supply your own wired headphones to plug in to the testers 2 way radio 

He then follows you in his car and gives instructions on where to go / turn 

During Covid my driving test waiting time was 1 year 

Did the test mid Feb and it was snowing and blowing a gale 

Edited October 30, 2024 by V650

[Bender]

21 minutes ago, V650 said:

Here in Ireland the steps are as follows

Theory test ( computer based ) €45 

Eye test ( any optician ) about €20

Lerner permit ( 2 years ) €35

IBT ( similar to UK CBT ) between €500 -€600 depending on who you go with for your training 

this is done on the road with an instructor something around 16 hrs in total usually done over 2 days ( no purpose built centers here ) usually nearest car park 

When you pass the IBT and are signed off you can ride unaccompanied for up to 2 years 

If you do not sit and pass a driving test in the 2 years you need to do the IBT again ( and pay again )

Even if you have a cat B car licence you still need to wear a L vest / tabbard ( you cannot stick a L plate on the bike ) while on the Bike

When you pass your test you can add a category to your car licence for €35  for a bike ( this renew's the whole licence for 10 years )

If you don't have a car licence it is €55 for a 10 year licence

 

So the on the road cost of getting a licence here should be about €755 ( about £630 )

 

For the actual test you need to supply your own wired headphones to plug in to the testers 2 way radio 

He then follows you in his car and gives instructions on where to go / turn 

During Covid my driving test waiting time was 1 year 

Did the test mid Feb and it was snowing and blowing a gale 

And Brexit did it have anything to do with it or did they screw it up themselves cause it won't be anything to do with the EU.

 

Sounds suspiciously like our system and Germany

[bonio]

3 hours ago, V650 said:

Here in Ireland the steps are as follows

Theory test ( computer based ) €45 

Eye test ( any optician ) about €20

Lerner permit ( 2 years ) €35

IBT ( similar to UK CBT ) between €500 -€600 depending on who you go with for your training 

this is done on the road with an instructor something around 16 hrs in total usually done over 2 days ( no purpose built centers here ) usually nearest car park 

When you pass the IBT and are signed off you can ride unaccompanied for up to 2 years 

If you do not sit and pass a driving test in the 2 years you need to do the IBT again ( and pay again )

Even if you have a cat B car licence you still need to wear a L vest / tabbard ( you cannot stick a L plate on the bike ) while on the Bike

When you pass your test you can add a category to your car licence for €35  for a bike ( this renew's the whole licence for 10 years )

If you don't have a car licence it is €55 for a 10 year licence

 

So the on the road cost of getting a licence here should be about €755 ( about £630 )

 

For the actual test you need to supply your own wired headphones to plug in to the testers 2 way radio 

He then follows you in his car and gives instructions on where to go / turn 

During Covid my driving test waiting time was 1 year 

Did the test mid Feb and it was snowing and blowing a gale 

Sorry to bang on with the same question but I've been asking myself thus for years and haven't found the answer....

On the test (ie ignoring the IBT) how were you tested for emergency stop, swerve avoidance, figure of 8, and for slalom?

[V650]

17 hours ago, bonio said:

Sorry to bang on with the same question but I've been asking myself thus for years and haven't found the answer....

On the test (ie ignoring the IBT) how were you tested for emergency stop, swerve avoidance, figure of 8, and for slalom?

On the actual test here there is no stop

 

EMERGENCY REDUCTION OF SPEED

This exercise is performed whilst travelling at roughly 55kph (in a 60kph zone) your examiner will instruct you over the radio to brake down to about 25kph. This will be done using both front and back brake and without skidding

There is no Swerve avoidance 

No figure of 8 

& no Slalom 

[bonio]

5 minutes ago, V650 said:

On the actual test here there is no stop

 

EMERGENCY REDUCTION OF SPEED

This exercise is performed whilst travelling at roughly 55kph (in a 60kph zone) your examiner will instruct you over the radio to brake down to about 25kph. This will be done using both front and back brake and without skidding

There is no Swerve avoidance 

No figure of 8 

& no Slalom 

Thanks mate. I'd wondered if this was the case, wasn't sure though.

[V650]

20 hours ago, Bender said:

And Brexit did it have anything to do with it or did they screw it up themselves cause it won't be anything to do with the EU.

 

Sounds suspiciously like our system and Germany

The changes to our licencing were introduced in about 2013 

The Irish Government would do anything The EU says as they wanted to be the poster boys of europe