Bike market in freefall

[bud]

It's interesting that a few years ago Chinese bikes were everywhere down here. Probably at least 50% of all bikes. Now you hardly see them. It's probably down to a maximum 10% now.

The stricter emission rules has increased the price considerably over what these bikes were selling for a few years ago. I think that and the fact so many were unreliable. Has turned away the buyers. At least down here.

From what I hear some local dealers leave a lot to be desired. That's not helping either.

I see loads of small capacity Honda and Yamaha bikes and scooters here. Even though there is no local dealers.

[husoi]

I believe most damage to bike's market is due to emissions restrictions imposed by the idiots in Brussels.

I know some brands are trying to go around it by creating hybrid engines for bikes but that only adds to the cost with no real benefits and by making a heavy bike even more heavier.

Then you have a stack of pointless technology that isn't really needed, thinking of reversing on the Goldwing, and only makes the bike market harder to get into or available to the few that can afford it.

 

The low cc market gets away with it, for now, because they are naturally low emission engines.

Just wait until someone finds a way to grab some taxes out of it...

[bonio]

3 hours ago, Grandads Mug said:

Just as a point of interest, the big three tractor makers have also all announced a decline in sales of around 30% over the last quarter, a  quite meaningless coincidence I'm sure!

 

 

Perhaps not... we're all feeling the pinch and more likely to put off any purchases that aren't really needed.

[Grandads Mug]

5 minutes ago, bonio said:

Perhaps not... we're all feeling the pinch and more likely to put off any purchases that aren't really needed.

The dairy sector is doing well at the moment and yet they they are not buying, it's a global thing. We are living in uncertain times, big changes are coming and the uncertainty factor is a major part of the  downturn we see in industry generally.

[bud]

41 minutes ago, husoi said:

 

The low cc market gets away with it, for now, because they are naturally low emission engines.

Just wait until someone finds a way to grab some taxes out of it...

 

It won't be long though. It's less than five years to the A1 bikes must be zero emission.

[RideWithStyles]

7 hours ago, Grandads Mug said:

Just as a point of interest, the big three tractor makers have also all announced a decline in sales of around 30% over the last quarter, a  quite meaningless coincidence I'm sure!

 

 

Well might aswell coincidentally be also how some farmers are selling land off to property developers, maybe. 

[Davidtav]

I think the second hand prices are being held artificially high. Lots of stock seems to be unsold in dealers. That’s just my observation 

[RideWithStyles]

Depends on where you live but for most bikes damage won’t be emissions but the price and complexity of the license system in a whole to get onto transport is a massive turn off. Used bike prices are just daft.

 

as an attitude to biking and technology (incredibly slow progress), the EU, manufacturers and to in part racing has blame to take.

car world is so well ahead, now for me the ones with either a huge car or engine industry division (Honda, bmw, Kawasaki, Suzuki) have no excuse, been complacent and sand bagging, could of tapped into that industry for help and made great progress one way or another, how about a 125-400cc turbo? Doesn’t need 14thousand rpm,m but still has around 100hp while emissions clean if not than a 125? That should have been done and common 15years Ago, I would have bought into that before being forced to an expensive EV.

Just a thought. 

[Grandads Mug]

30 minutes ago, RideWithStyles said:

Well might aswell coincidentally be also how some farmers are selling land off to property developers, maybe. 

The big three corporations are global.

[RideWithStyles]

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2025/march/electric-motorcycle-industry-respond-to-plug-in-grant-extension/

[Fleck]

When the insurance is more than the bike is worth, it's time to insure 3rd party only 

[ChrisBiggsUK]

Funnily enough, with insurance, I got an e-mail from sportsbikeshop saying they were now doing insurance quotes.  Alrighty! thinks I, and so and goes and puts in the same details I put in to the meerkat place and boom.  Cheapest quote from any of the providers they came up with was quadruple what I'm paying now!  Insurance is one of those things that if you actually figure it out, you will cause the entire universe to implode.  I'm eagerly looking forward to September when my insurance comes back up for renewal with Bennetts so I can see whether/how much by, they drop the price I'm currently paying.  

I just wish there was something that could be done within the industry to bring insurance premiums down across the board for new riders.  I'm fine with paying the extortionate 'new rider' penalty.  Others, however, aren't in a position to do so and yeah, it really puts people off.

[Capt Sisko]

On 18/03/2025 at 10:49, husoi said:

I believe most damage to bike's market is due to emissions restrictions

I'm struggling to get my head around this. Bikes are more powerful, faster, get better MPG and Euro regs mean they'll be producing lower emissions that they did ten, twenty or thirty years ago. Despite that bikes are pretty bad when it comes to emissions, even new models. GSX-S1000GX - CO2 144g/km / Kawasaki's Ninja ZX-10RR 143 and many others are as bad. Some for the big twins are better the BMW 1300GS is 110 and the facelift NT1100 116g/km, but I've never read one road test that mentions emissions anywhere in the review, whereas in car reviews it's all important. I might be wrong, but my perception is most bikers don't give a stuff about what comes out of the back as long as when you twist the trottle it goes like stink.

Edited March 21 by Capt Sisko

[ChrisBiggsUK]

48 minutes ago, Capt Sisko said:

"... bikers don't give a stuff about what comes out of the back as long as when you twist the trottle it goes like stink."

I need this on a T-Shirt.

[Fiddlesticks]

1 minute ago, ChrisBiggsUK said:

I need this on a T-Shirt.

This can be arranged...

[S-Westerly]

1 hour ago, Capt Sisko said:

I'm struggling to get my head around this. Bikes are more powerful, faster, get better MPG and Euro regs mean they'll be producing lower emissions that they did ten, twenty or thirty years ago. Despite that bikes are pretty bad when it comes to emissions, even new models. GSX-S1000GX - CO2 144g/km / Kawasaki's Ninja ZX-10RR 143 and many others are as bad. Some for the big twins are better the BMW 1300GS is 110 and the facelift NT1100 116g/km, but I've never read one road test that mentions emissions anywhere in the review, whereas in car reviews it's all important. I might be wrong, but my perception is most bikers don't give a stuff about what comes out of the back as long as when you twist the trottle it goes like stink.

Pretty much, yeah. Not famously green in general.

[RideWithStyles]

On 21/03/2025 at 13:14, Capt Sisko said:

I'm struggling to get my head around this. Bikes are more powerful, faster, get better MPG and Euro regs mean they'll be producing lower emissions that they did ten, twenty or thirty years ago. Despite that bikes are pretty bad when it comes to emissions, even new models. GSX-S1000GX - CO2 144g/km / Kawasaki's Ninja ZX-10RR 143 and many others are as bad. Some for the big twins are better the BMW 1300GS is 110 and the facelift NT1100 116g/km, but I've never read one road test that mentions emissions anywhere in the review, whereas in car reviews it's all important. I might be wrong, but my perception is most bikers don't give a stuff about what comes out of the back as long as when you twist the trottle it goes like stink.

116g/km is about the same as mid 2000 fiat panda 1.2 NA that was designed to be as eco as possible while cheap to made and run, 69hp but slow for a ton car.

Problem with most motorbikes and especially those ones you mention:

one is that they have have loads of revs, more revs, more produce gases and more chances for those gases to go unburnt.

if we had smaller cc, lower rev, turbo engine  so the gases have a change to be recycled, we’d have a better chance.

big lower reving twins get longer and better chance to completely burn the fuel and refresh the air.

also the testing for the emissions: its very much out of date and not done to the benefit of the individual bikes needs much like the car test, is done at certain speed, certain rev, certain gear for x time, then different speeds, might work better for a 125 or a 400 etc but a 1000 hyper bike will have different results.

You’d like to think manufacturers should be doing something to change this tend as they aint helping themselves by dragging their heels. suspect it might be abit late now before EV is forced apon us.

[bud]

I was reading the other day about how Honda built a four stroke, oval piston 250cc v twin turbo in the 80's.  It was allegedly making up to 175hp. Their aim was to go GP racing with it in the open (500) class.

Apparently they had heard whispers that Dorna was going to allow them to compete with the two strokes. The path of motorcycle development could have been so different if Dorna had approved it.

Instead it probably ended up in a skip somewhere. Which is ironic as it would have indirectly led to lower emission motorcycles today.

[Simon Davey]

14 minutes ago, bud said:

I was reading the other day about how Honda built a four stroke, oval piston 250cc v twin turbo in the 80's.  It was allegedly making up to 175hp. Their aim was to go GP racing with it in the open (500) class.

Apparently they had heard whispers that Dorna was going to allow them to compete with the two strokes. The path of motorcycle development could have been so different if Dorna had approved it.

Instead it probably ended up in a skip somewhere. Which is ironic as it would have indirectly led to lower emission motorcycles today.

 

I think @Tinkicker mentioned this a while ago. 

Honda spent a fortune on it, and did actually race with the engine. It was so unreliable though, and when they got it right, it didn't win any more races than a round piston. 

[oldgrump]

2 hours ago, Simon Davey said:

 

I think @Tinkicker mentioned this a while ago. 

Honda spent a fortune on it, and did actually race with the engine. It was so unreliable though, and when they got it right, it didn't win any more races than a round piston. 

The bike in question was the NR500, Mick Grant and i think Freddie Spencer rode it at the British GP at Silverstone,  I believe mick's crashed and caught alight on the first lap. 

It was then developed into the NR750 and actually raced by journalist,  and then became one of the most beautiful looking road bike's looking, I nearly brought one when Bat motorcycles had 2 for sale. 

Its still on my bucket list to own one , but probably will never happen!!!

[bud]

20 hours ago, Simon Davey said:

 

I think @Tinkicker mentioned this a while ago. 

Honda spent a fortune on it, and did actually race with the engine. It was so unreliable though, and when they got it right, it didn't win any more races than a round piston. 

That's a different bike. This was a 250, with basically half the NR engine. Each cylinder was fitted with a turbo.

It never actually raced as it wasn't eligible for any series.

I bet it sounded awesome.

The NR750 was what gave Tamburini the  styling ideas for the 916. It's quite evident when you compare the two together.

[Terry Came]

When I was 16 you I bought a moped, which, if you were lucky, could do speeds approaching 50mph. No test, no lessons, just 'here's the bike, this is how you make it go, this is how you change gear, this is how you stop, here's your L plates. Good luck, off you go.' We then went on to 250cc machines, which in the 1970's could go quite well. Again just 'here's your L plates, off you go, good luck.' Now was this a good idea? Not really, but it got us on the road. Now, CBT, then the A1 licence. Restricted to 125, limited to 11kw, then, after two years, take another test and go to A2 licence. Restricted to 37kw. Then, when you get to 24, you can finally get your full licence. That's three tests, with the waiting times as long as they are now, this takes real commitment. Car test is the same as it was 50 years ago, take your test, drive what you like, up to 3.5 tonnes. No need to take a test as you get older when you wish to drive your Chelsea tractor 2 miles to take your children to nursery. As for cars 50 years ago, well, rose tinted glasses aside, they were rot boxes. After ten years, you could expect to have to get the welding torch out to replace floors, sills, flitch panels. 100,000 miles, they were, to put it politely, worn out. Now cars, for the most part, do not rust nearly as much. They last at least twice as long as they did. You can get a perfectly good little car for learning in and first car for about £1000. 15,20 or ever 25 year old cars are not uncommon now. As for insurance, for me, it is not too different, so I imagine that there is not much difference for youngsters when they go to insure a car or a bike. 50 years a go, there was a significant difference. Given the fact that most parents would much prefer their children to have a car rather than a bike, then you can see why biking is becoming a thing of the past. 

[aide2001]

On 08/03/2025 at 17:16, ChrisBiggsUK said:

It would be interesting to see what the used bike market is doing.  While yes, new bike sales are down and this is a worry, if the used bike market is strong then that should give some comfort that biking isn't going anywhere just yet.

I know that for my own part, when it came to starting this journey, getting a used bike as my first one was always going to be the way I went.  It wasn't a cost thing for me, it was a case of 'ok, what is a reliable, simple, no fuss bike that I can get that will get me from a-b, be forgiving of me as a new rider, and also reasonably hold its value'.  Thus I opted for my plucky little CG.  Going to keep that for the foreseeable and then, somewhere down the line, get myself a brand new bike (already got my eye on a couple I would like) and as such look forward to being included in the statistics of new bike sales at some point.

For others though, perhaps the daunting cost of training, new bike, insurance etc is putting them off?  I should also add that I was chatting to a friend recently and asked him if he wanted to get a bike and he said that bike related crime was a big turn off for him, as was the fact that he didn't want to be viewed as just 'some dodgy delivery rider' (his words) while riding with L plates on.  Told him that he could fast-track himself and get the L plates off pretty quickly, and that it isn't just 'dodgy delivery riders' with L plates on, (I quite literally pointed to myself as a case in point as although I am slightly dodgy, I'm not a delivery rider) but he was still turned off by the crime and, in his eyes, the stigma of delivery riders.  Not sure how widespread that view is, but he certainly holds it.   

Hopefully as the riding season picks up sales will also pick up.  I've only just started this hobby and I'll be damned if I'm going to let it die out on my watch!

We've seen a hugh decline in activity this year compared to last on our classified site, we used to get hundreds of hits a day, now its not even triple figures. I think people are put off with the high prices of second hand still, i have a couple of clients selling their own bikes and not had any interest, either via our site or other well known ones. I guess the market for them is in decline.

[Throttled]

I see a pretty universal £1000 off the list price of new and used bikes at my local dealers.

[Copycat73]

58 minutes ago, aide2001 said:

 I guess the market for them is in decline.

the truth is .. disposable income has fallen off a cliff .. coupled with fear of spendin on anythin not essential .. many outlets are goin to the wall this year ..